2210 air cleaner causes bog downs

[RalphVa]

We stopped and visited with some friends today. He has a JD 2210 with FEL and belly mower. During our conversation, he asked me whether I'd have any trouble with the air cleaner on my tractors plugging up and causing bog downs. I told him, no.

Wondering if anyone has ever had this problem. Guess it's when he's using the belly mower.

Did a search and didn't turn up anything on this.

Ralph

 

[ovrszd]

No problem here.

The engine air cleaner sucks just ahead of the radiator. The air is pre-cleaned by the screens in the grill and side panels. I clean my filter a couple times a year but get nothing but fine dust. The screens though will get plugged any time I mow in dry conditions. I can't envision how plugged the air cleaner would have to be to cause power loss? Wondering if there's something else wrong???

 

[leonz]

If the unit has a safety element/inner/outer filters tThe inner element is
much much finer than the outer element, your friend needs to toss them and install new ones.


Never, never, never, pay attention to the recommended air filter change
intervals as recommended by the mules manufacturer as each situation is
different and fine grass dust will cause it to bog down.

Nor should you clean the filters, they are not designed to be cleaned as the
element paper becomes more weak over time.

If he had an oil bath air cleaner it would never do that.

 

[ovrszd]

If an owner doesn't know the history of a machine I can maybe, maybe see the throw away and buy new theory. Otherwise, not.

My 2210 inner filter has never been replaced. I check it every couple years and it's always absolutely clean. I consider it a backup if the outer fails for whatever reason.

I've replaced the outer filter twice. I clean them using blown air and consideration.

An oil bath cleaner's ability to screen very fine material is inadequate for modern engines. Was fine when piston/ring/valve clearances were huge. Today they are very narrow. You don't want an oil bath breather.

 

[jenkinsph]

If an owner doesn't know the history of a machine I can maybe, maybe see the throw away and buy new theory. Otherwise, not.

My 2210 inner filter has never been replaced. I check it every couple years and it's always absolutely clean. I consider it a backup if the outer fails for whatever reason.

I've replaced the outer filter twice. I clean them using blown air and consideration.

An oil bath cleaner's ability to screen very fine material is inadequate for modern engines. Was fine when piston/ring/valve clearances were huge. Today they are very narrow. You don't want an oil bath breather.

I agree^^^
If you keep up with the outer filter, clean it carefully as often as is needed the inner filter will last a long time. If I see any dust on the inner filter I immediately change the outer filter. I have gone through several outer filters and only recently changed the inner filter on my 10 year old 110tlb.

 

[bigtiller]

I use this to clean the outer filter and the radiator. They have an almost 90 degree bend at the tip.

 

[beenthere]

Where do you get this kit?

 

[bigtiller]

Where do you get this kit?

I bought it at my JD dealer but they are on-line also.

Tractor Radiator Genie New | eBay

 

[beenthere]

Costly, but then so is a plugged radiator..
I get an air wand (24") at HF for under $3. Works very good and use for a lot of things without getting close and also standing up when blowing off the tractors after each use.

 

[leonz]

If an owner doesn't know the history of a machine I can maybe, maybe see the throw away and buy new theory. Otherwise, not.

My 2210 inner filter has never been replaced. I check it every couple years and it's always absolutely clean. I consider it a backup if the outer fails for whatever reason.

I've replaced the outer filter twice. I clean them using blown air and consideration.

An oil bath cleaner's ability to screen very fine material is inadequate for modern engines. Was fine when piston/ring/valve clearances were huge. Today they are very narrow. You don't want an oil bath breather.

==========================================================================

This where people get into trouble, we were always told and taught over the
shoulder and in the garbage can for both elements every 200 hours
on the meter.

The tattle tail indicators will lie to the user and become stuck not indication restrictions.

If a Duetz Fahr oil bath precleaner was used with a paper element filter the engines would not require
air filter changes for hundreds of hours of use.

Oil bath air cleaners are used on huge stationary diesel engines because they offer the least restriction and the highest filtration of combustion air and the same would be true with an oil bath precleaner with a turbine precleaner mounted on
the top of the oil bath air cleaner attached to the paper element air cleaner.


The manufacurers of paper elements do not even recommend doing washing or using air to clean them as paper used in the pleats becomes weaker over time and the more dirt they encounter the greater pressure gradient "suction" occurs in the outer elements paper.

I have seen inner and outer paper elements implode on diesel engines because they were not changed as often as they should be and when you see this occur on a $100,000.00+ Mercedes Benz V-12 water cooled, turbocharged and aftercooled diesel engine with a radiator that is the size of a pickup truck cooling two other Mercedes V 12 engines of the same type you know some poor maintenance man was overruled in changing the inner and outer filters by his cheapskate boss.


That is one of the major reasons they have trouble with locomotive engines because of the poor design of the intake combustion air fitration method where if they used oil bath precleaner's for the engines they would have near zero issues
and could operate smaller indirect fuel injection systems


The old saying is "you can pay me now or later" is still true.

 

[ovrszd]

==========================================================================

This where people get into trouble, we were always told and taught over the
shoulder and in the garbage can for both elements every 200 hours
on the meter.

The tattle tail indicators will lie to the user and become stuck not indication restrictions.

If a Duetz Fahr oil bath precleaner was used with a paper element filter the engines would not require
air filter changes for hundreds of hours of use.

Oil bath air cleaners are used on huge stationary diesel engines because they offer the least restriction and the highest filtration of combustion air and the same would be true with an oil bath precleaner with a turbine precleaner mounted on
the top of the oil bath air cleaner attached to the paper element air cleaner.


The manufacurers of paper elements do not even recommend doing washing or using air to clean them as paper used in the pleats becomes weaker over time and the more dirt they encounter the greater pressure gradient "suction" occurs in the outer elements paper.

I have seen inner and outer paper elements implode on diesel engines because they were not changed as often as they should be and when you see this occur on a $100,000.00+ Mercedes Benz V-12 water cooled, turbocharged and aftercooled diesel engine with a radiator that is the size of a pickup truck cooling two other Mercedes V 12 engines of the same type you know some poor maintenance man was overruled in changing the inner and outer filters by his cheapskate boss.


That is one of the major reasons they have trouble with locomotive engines because of the poor design of the intake combustion air fitration method where if they used oil bath precleaner's for the engines they would have near zero issues
and could operate smaller indirect fuel injection systems


The old saying is "you can pay me now or later" is still true.

So you are recommending using an oil bath pre-cleaner ahead of a dual element paper filter?? I concur. Except the cost will negate that quickly on a mowing tractor.

Your examples are spot on. For $100,000 engines.

Your examples are also spot on to support maintaining filters. Paper filters that implode are examples of very poor maintenance. If I were the mechanic that happened to I'd blame it on the white collar boss too. If they were cleaned, they would not implode. Even if improperly cleaned. They imploded because nothing was done and they plugged. The engine then had the air flow to suck the guts out of them.

 

[leonz]

Even with a small 3 cylinder mule the expense of spending a grand for a larger size oil bath unit
with a precleaner and the additional suction tubing would be a no brainer for me as I would also
spend the extra money without hesitation on a RACOR diesel fuel filter to replace the excuse for
fuel filters used on the small mules as a fuel heater can be added as an option AND the fuel can
be filtered down to 2 micron.

The RACOR 500FG fuel filter will permit full fuel flow for 10,000 gallons per cartridge.
I installed an 500FG unit on my homes heating fuel system as I was fed up with my
system freezing and plugguing from crap in the fuel being algae and mold etc.
The smaller RACOR filters will also work just as well for gas and diesel engines.




Fussy yes, am I a believer in buying good equipment to increase the life of engines yes,
do I beleive in changing the oils a thousand miles before they recommend yes,
/do I believe in buying catalytic converters to install on the three cylinder and larger mules
that have the fuel pumps advanced to get around the tailpipe emmissions tests YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
and would not hesitate to change the fuel settings back to the "normal" "STANDARD" fuel settings
for all these engines as tens of thousands of these engines are sold worldwide without modifying the fuel settings and advancing the injection pump fuel delivery settings wherein the fuel volume is reduced per revolution per cylinder creating the annoying and nerve damaging effects from the rattle that Kubota dealers of subcompacts
and compact tractors say is not there.

This also begs the question "why?" do they invest in installing vibration cancelling rubber mats and the rubber isolators that fail over time for these sub compact and compact tractors when a catalytic converter that will outlive the mule "Will Accomplish The Very Same Job?????"


When a catalytic converter is installed on these engines and operated properly maintaining a hot operating temperature all that is exhausted is carbon dioxide and water vapor as long as the engine is properly
maintained.


I got so sick from the fumes of the Honda GX340 gas engine on my firewood processor that I invested in a
catalytic converter from Foley Engine to replace the muffler on this Honda engine.


I welcome any comments that can refute my statements with proof.

 

[ovrszd]

Even with a small 3 cylinder mule the expense of spending a grand for a larger size oil bath unit
with a precleaner and the additional suction tubing would be a no brainer for me as I would also
spend the extra money without hesitation on a RACOR diesel fuel filter to replace the excuse for
fuel filters used on the small mules as a fuel heater can be added as an option AND the fuel can
be filtered down to 2 micron.
The RACOR 500FG fuel filter will permit full fuel flow for 10,000 gallons per cartridge.
I installed an 500FG unit on my homes heating fuel system as I was fed up with my
system freezing and plugguing from crap in the fuel being algae and mold etc.
The smaller RACOR filters will also work just as well for gas and diesel engines.




Fussy yes, am I a believer in buying good equipment to increase the life of engines yes,
do I beleive in changing the oils a thousand miles before they recommend yes,
/do I believe in buying catalytic converters to install on the three cylinder and larger mules
that have the fuel pumps advanced to get around the tailpipe emmissions tests YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!,
and would not hesitate to change the fuel settings back to the "normal" "STANDARD" fuel settings
for all these engines as tens of thousands of these engines are sold worldwide without modifying the fuel settings and advancing the injection pump fuel delivery settings wherein the fuel volume is reduced per revolution per cylinder creating the annoying and nerve damaging effects from the rattle that Kubota dealers of subcompacts
and compact tractors say is not there.

This also begs the question "why?" do they invest in installing vibration cancelling rubber mats and the rubber isolators that fail over time for these sub compact and compact tractors when a catalytic converter that will outlive the mule "Will Accomplish The Very Same Job?????"


When a catalytic converter is installed on these engines and operated properly maintaining a hot operating temperature all that is exhausted is carbon dioxide and water vapor as long as the engine is properly
maintained.


I got so sick from the fumes of the Honda GX340 gas engine on my firewood processor that I invested in a
catalytic converter from Foley Engine to replace the muffler on this Honda engine.


I welcome any comments that can refute my statements with proof.

So you have added these filtering devices to your engines?

 

[RalphVa]

I was hoping someone had had this problem and simply put a hose snorkel over the tip of the air cleaner housing to suck on the other side. Guess no one so far. Best this is probably the solution. Bet it sucks on the same side that the belly mower discharges to. A snorkel to suck on the other side of the engine might work.

This guy owning the 2210 is a retired banker. He doesn't seem to have to much mechanical knowhow other that be able to at least change his air cleaner.

Ralph

 

[leonz]

I sold the firewood processor with the catalytic converter and am burning coal now.

Lots of folks use the RACOR units and I have one on my heating fuel system as I mentioned

 

[leonz]

Hello Ralph,

If he can run a new suction pipe for the air cleaner above the rops he will be better off but most likely he will not be able to.

He can buy primary and secondary air filters on line and save quite a bit of money.


Better still if he can have the dealer install a precleaner through the hood for the air filter it will be easier for him as he can just
clean the bowl on it every time he mows.

 

[RalphVa]

Thanks, Leonz. I sent that to him.

Ralph

 

[ovrszd]

I was hoping someone had had this problem and simply put a hose snorkel over the tip of the air cleaner housing to suck on the other side. Guess no one so far. Best this is probably the solution. Bet it sucks on the same side that the belly mower discharges to. A snorkel to suck on the other side of the engine might work.

This guy owning the 2210 is a retired banker. He doesn't seem to have to much mechanical knowhow other that be able to at least change his air cleaner.

Ralph

The intake suction is behind the hood/grill screens, just above the radiator on the passenger side. So the mower deck has little to no impact on it getting clean air. I never find anything in my filter bigger than dust. The screens do a very good job of sorting all that out.

 

[bullockcm]

Can't quote from work but I will 2nd what Ovrszd is saying. If everything is properly in place meaning the radiator screen, intake air piping, and filters then you shouldn't be getting much on the filters. That said when I inherited my 2210 with the property I am at now I discovered rodents had chewed a somewhat hard to find hole in the intake piping, fortunately just before the filter. This allowed all manner of stuff to find its way to the filter and greatly shorten the filters lifespan however, even filthy I didn't notice much of a difference in how the tractor ran. If the air filters are being plugged I would check and make sure there weren't any leaks/openings in the intake track before the filter.

I would also examine what was plugging the filters and make sure it wasn't part of a rodent nest that might be in the intake tract which could restrict air flow to the point of making the tractor bog/run poorly.