milligjg
Silver Member
In Missouri you can drive a grain truck (semi) without a CDL anywhere in the state. I dont understand this, does anyone have a good explaination?:confused3:
Who has their Class A CDL?
- Thread starter dieselcrawler
- Start date
- Views: 28095
Looking4new
Super Star Member
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2012
- Messages
- 10,468
- Location
- Northern Ontario, Canada
- Tractor
- 2012 Kioti CK27HST w/cab
Farmers get 'special' dispensation. THAT is my only explanation, good or bad.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Agriculture use inside of states is controlled by the states. Unless there is state line crossing, Federal Motor Carrier rules do not apply. States usually adopt FMCSA regulations as their own, but are allowed to modify them for Intrastate trucking. Interstate trucking is where they have no leeway. During harvest time, Iowa usually exempts DOT highway weight limits on grain trucks also, allowing them to exceed the max weight per axle, up to the design limits of the axles by the OEM.
What confuses people is the Intrastate (inside the state) vs Interstate (crossing state lines). States are in control of everything inside the state, so they can establish regulations that either match or deviate from the national regulations, but only for in state transportation moves.
Farmer are not the only ones who get regulated differently. So it is not necessarily a "special exemption". The state establishes inside state rules that apply across the board to all in state transportation exemptions to Federal regulations.
What confuses people is the Intrastate (inside the state) vs Interstate (crossing state lines). States are in control of everything inside the state, so they can establish regulations that either match or deviate from the national regulations, but only for in state transportation moves.
Farmer are not the only ones who get regulated differently. So it is not necessarily a "special exemption". The state establishes inside state rules that apply across the board to all in state transportation exemptions to Federal regulations.
The 100 air miles only determines if you have to keep a log book or not. You are still regulated either way as in you fall under the dot regs.
There are exemptions based on being an RV and things like that but classification is based on weight. If you are under 10,000lb (which was the point of my my post with my pickup and no trailer) then they can not regulate you regardless of your purpose. You don't see the dominoes pizza guy in his Camry with a dot number. Now if you are over 10,000 you may be able to avoid the regs based on purpose or Rv exemptions but my point was if you are under 10k you are not regulated period.
HHR
Platinum Member
I just saw a courier service that had DOT numbers on the side of their Kia Soul.
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
Sounds good. Have you done a search on on-line tests? There are alot of site's to glean over. The more effort the better.
Once you get that permit, focus on that pretrip and air brake test if you are going for the endorsement. If your co-workers are going to help you, you want someone tough not someone who is passe' about the details. If you have any questions, throw them out. Some of this stuff is not always clear.
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
This is a case where that last sentence is slightly misleading ie; "if you are under 10k you are not regulated". It depends on what you are doing and where you are doing it.
If that Kia Soul was part of an interstate operation or an intrastate operation say involving hazardous materials then the DOT numbers may be required.
The bottom line is to know your state's laws and the federal laws that may apply however difficult it is to get the correct info.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Not quite true. Anyone who is transporting hazardous materials commercially is required to follow HOS logging requirements, irregardless of gross weight. If you are required to have a placard on anything or the vehicle, then it falls under the HOS logging guidelines if done commercially. Inside state lines may be one thing, but cross a state line and better be ready to document.
And I have not seen any real examples of anyone hauling a camper with a 3/4 ton pickup, in a commercial status, that would be exempt. The pickup alone, with occupants, full of fuel, and associated gear on board, along with even a small camper would exceed the 10001 lb GCWR threshold. Well, maybe one of those mini campers, but then those are normally hauled as opposed to being towed.
And I did exempt intrastate commercial use in my previous post. That is state regulated. Interstate is another ball game.
From FMCSA website....
Most drivers must follow the HOS Regulations if they drive a commercial motor vehicle, or CMV.
In general, a CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business and is involved in interstate commerce and fits any of these descriptions:
Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards
And the weight is not actually what the truck weighs at the time, but the declared GVWR or GCWR. One can have a 3/4 ton pickup without a trailer at the time, but if they are involved in commercial activity that involves trailer movements, and the gross combination exceeds 10001 lb, they are still subject to HOS guidelines. For instance, a pickup that is on the way to get a trailer that will be moved commercially. They are effectively under "dispatch" conditions to secure the load, so it is as if they were already towing it.
I can drive my semi tractor bobtail (without a trailer) without logging anything but off duty.. i.e. I can go to the grocery store, go home, go get a bite to eat, etc. It is called personal conveyance and is allowed per the FMCSA guidelines. But if I am bobtailing to pickup up a trailer for loading, that is considered driving time for logging purposes. This applies to all commercially used vehicles whose GCWR exceeds 10001 lb.
Last edited:
Yes this is correct. If you are under 10,000 you are still regulated if you are carrying placard required hazardous materials, or driving a bus or something like that but how is either one of these situations applicable for the typical TBN'r in this discussion? They are talking about getting tandem dual trailers to move their tractors not hauling nukes cross country or buying buses and hauling people around for money.
And yes you are 100% correct on the 10,000lb limit being the actual weight or manufacturers weight rating whichever is higher. You can weigh less then 10k but if your GVWR is over 10k they can get you.
This part here I do not agree with. [QUOTE ]One can have a 3/4 ton pickup without a trailer at the time, but if they are involved in commercial activity that involves trailer movements, and the gross combination exceeds 10001 lb, they are still subject to HOS guidelines. For instance, a pickup that is on the way to get a trailer that will be moved commercially. They are effectively under "dispatch" conditions to secure the load, so it is as if they were already towing it[/QUOTE]
Now in some states you register the weight of your trailer on with your truck similar to like we do with IRP / Apportioned tags. For example on my semi I don't register my trailers for any amount of weight they just get token tags which cost like $15 a year. The tractor however is registered for 80,000lb and costs $1,500 a year to register. The tractor registration covers the weight of the tractor and what it is towing. Maybe if your pickup was registered this way you would be regulated all the time I don't know. In Texas with my pickup the trailer has its own registered weight. For example I have a F-250 that has a GVWR of 10,000lb and it pulls a gooseneck with a GVWR of 14,000. Combined they are over 10k and I need log books, medical card, etc when doing interstate work but the pickup can be driven without a trailer anywhere even across state lines without DOT regulation. It does not even matter if I am headed to get a trailer or not. Yes if I was going to get a trailer once I got that trailer I would have to log that unladen trip as on duty because it was not personal conveyance, but it was not regulated driving.
The distinction here is your tractor bobtail is over 10k. A pickup is most likely not unless it is a dually. I am fully aware of the personal conveyance rules and you are correct that you can go christmas shopping in your tractor "off duty" but you need to be "driving" to drive the same tractor to go pickup a load. This however is not the same thing as driving a 3/4 ton pickup to go get a trailer because the 3/4 ton is under 10k and the tractor is not.
Mitkof
Bronze Member
I just renewed my CDL and I had to go back home and get my US Passport to show them. Seemed weird, they give a stnd driver license to people in country illegally, but I have to show my Passport to renew my CDL.
QRTRHRS
Elite Member
First time I have heard of this? Anyone else know anything about needing a passport to renew?
Mitkof
Bronze Member
I was told it's either my Passport or a Certified Birth Certificate. I'd never heard of this before and I've had my CDL since early 80s.
You are correct for Texas but watch not only your actual weight but your manufacturers weight rating.
I have a dually with a GVWR of 13,025. To pull a 14k rated trailer with this truck even if the trailer was completely empty would require a class A CDL. The combined gross weight would probably be 14k well under 26 but because of the weight ratings it is an over 26k combination.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Well, just a stickler here... the CDL did not come into existence until 1991 to meet the new federal mandate in 1992. You might have had a Chauffer's license or similar, but the CDL did not exist before 1991. I was one of the first drivers to get the new CDL in August of 1991. Before that, was Chauffer's license stuff. I wanted to beat the rush to get the required CDL by April of 1992 when the regulation went into full effect.
It does seem strange about a passport or birth certificate. I renewed mine this last year and didn't need any of that stuff.
DK35vince
Super Member
News to me.
I don't recall ever having a chauffer's license.
Took my class B CDL test in a triaxle dump truck in the early 80's and took my class A CDL test in the early 90's.
Copperhead
Veteran Member
Right. The Federal regulations regarding CDL, which must be applied to all state licensing agencies, is that if the towed vehicle or trailer has a RATED rating of 10,001 lb or more, then that requires a Class A. Doesn't matter what the actual weight at the time is. If the towed vehicle or trailer has a rated weight of 10,000 or less, even if the total gross of the power unit and the trailer exceed 26,001 lb, then a Class B is the one. If towed vehicle or trailer has a gross rating of less then 10K, and the combination is less than 26K, then a Class C is the required CDL. This all does not necessarily apply to private users pulling their own stuff, like a 1 ton dually pulling a 13K RV trailer on vacation. But if it is for commercial use, even private commercial use, then this all applies.
Sound clear as mud? It is to a lot of folks.
wcampbell47
Platinum Member
I am seeing a number of tandem axle dual wheel trailers showing up on Craigs List for sale and I am guessing just for this reason. I have been told that troopers are paying a lot more attention to this dually gooseneck combo now which requires DOT numbers, except maybe in some farm applications. Trailers have to be inspected yearly which requires a VIN. It took me 4 months to get a shop built trailer legal. So far I have been careful to select a truck and trailer that keeps me under the requirements for CDL and DOT.
To get the CDL there are four or five written tests then you must take a road test in a vehicle of the class of the license you are wanting. For example if you want a class a CDL without and air brake restriction you need to take the test in a combo over 26k with a trailer over 10k with air brakes. You also will need a medical card before they let you take the road test.
The CDL is just the tip of the iceberg though unless you are driving for someone else. If you want to run your own vehicle over 26k and are not covered under a farm or RV exemption be prepared for a TON of paperwork. DOT numbers, UCR registration, IFTA, IRP, annual commercial inspections on trucks and trailers, drug testing, driver qualification, commercial insurance, etc.
Here are some similar links:
