Looking at new machine: MIG or TIG

[Furu]

I am looking at getting a new machine. As the title states I am bouncing back and forth about which way to go TIG or MIG. Wife says that it can be a B'day present.:cool2:

The reason I want a new/different machine is Aluminum. My current Stick machines will do great at whatever thickness I need. I have been doing scratch-start Tig (thanks to Shield Arc) so I can TIG steel and am good with that. I am looking for more flexibility and the ability to do Aluminum. (and I don't want to have to get a Helium bottle.) Thus the search for which to focus on.

I am not the type to be satisfied with getting a low powered MIG (of course low powered Mig's might have a bit of a problem with Aluminum anyway) because if I have it I will also want to use in on thicker steel and it just won't do it. If I get a Mig I would have to have a spool gun or a real short feed and even then that might have a problem. A higher amperage Mig will run into very serious money or so I believe (especially with the spool gun).

If I go TIG the simpler/less expensive ones won't work, as the DC only TIGs won't allow me what I want. I have an argon bottle so no new bottle if I get a dedicated AC/DC Tig where with MIG I would need a new bottle.

What other trade-offs does the collective have to bring up to "help" the decision?
What other issues have I not addressed that I should?

 

[Shield Arc]

You're correct, aluminum just sucks up the AMPS!
What kind of budget are we working with?

My V350-Pro with SG spool gun does pretty good on a wide range of thickness with aluminum. But she is spendy!

 

[Furu]

You're correct, aluminum just sucks up the AMPS!
What kind of budget are we working with?
My V350-Pro with SG spool gun does pretty good on a wide range of thickness with aluminum. But she is spendy!

Budget maybe a little bit of a shifting target. I don't want to spend one penny more than I have to but I definitely do not want to regret having gone on the cheap side/low end and not gotten the power and ability that I end up needing. I have concern, mostly from what I have read and what you have told me about the combination machines and thus am not sure that I want to go down that rabbit trail.

Your V350-Pro with a Spool gun would be the "cat's meow" but I think that is out of the budget at what you told me it ran you.

 

[Shield Arc]

The thing is, Tig welding aluminum has a big learning curve! Any welding with a wire feeder is going to be so much easier to learn. Welding thin aluminum, Tig is the way to go!
With my Miller Dynasty 300, if it's a very small piece of aluminum, I can weld 3/8-inch thick. But if there is any volume to the piece it will not do it! That's why I bought the bottle of helium.
I can see very easy where a guy needs a Mig machine, and a Tig machine! I'm really not up on these combination welders that will Tig weld aluminum, and has a Mig option too. If you only want to buy one machine, you'll have to look into the future, and try a guess which process you'll use the most.
I would PM Mark with Everlast, and ask him if he has a proven combination welder that can Tig weld aluminum, and a Mig / spool gun.

 

[LD1]

If you are serious about aluminum, especially if you plan to do work for hire, get a TIG and get good at it.

IF aluminum is just a once a blue moon thing and only for yourself, get a good mig and use it the rest of the time on steel when needed.

 

[LD1]

If you are serious about aluminum, especially if you plan to do work for hire, get a TIG and get good at it.

IF aluminum is just a once a blue moon thing and only for yourself, get a good mig and use it the rest of the time on steel when needed.

 

[NibbanaFarm]

Furu, see my last post under Best MIG Welder. I'm having some of the same questions. Other than that, I have an excellent Lincoln Square Wave TIG 175 that makes beautiful Al welds and was pretty darn cheap, $1500. The only thing is, it's only 175 amps and air cooled torch so you're limited on thickness. If you want to TIG heavy AL, you're going to pay big bucks.

There's more than one way to skin a cat. I design my projects knowing that I can't TIG heavy Al. You can stick weld it though. The rods are expensive too.

 

[Big Barn]

Furu, only you can decide what's best for you. Personally I would lean towards the mig with spool gun option but good used AC DC transformer tigs come up for sale when you least expect it.

I found a Miller 351 Syncrowave this summer for $850.

Here's a pic of it all 'cleaned up' and skidded.



Have fun shopping.

Terry

 

[CNC Dan]

I am looking at getting a new machine. As the title states I am bouncing back and forth about which way to go TIG or MIG. Wife says that it can be a B'day present......


If I go TIG the simpler/less expensive ones won't work, as the DC only TIGs won't allow me what I want. I have an argon bottle so no new bottle if I get a dedicated AC/DC Tig where with MIG I would need a new bottle.

You use argon with MIG on aluminum, so no need for a new bottle. Unless you need a little more heat, the helium will give you a little bit more power.

If the wife is paying, chose the more expensive one.

 

[Shield Arc]

Terry you should absolutely be ashamed of your self, you stole that welder!

 

[Stimw]

You are asking about 2 different processes and trying to combine them.
While both weld aluminum they have different applications. MIG is speed, TIG is precision weld placement.
As an example, I have alum welded 4' X 12' X 1/4" overlay plates (they were rolled on the sides to go partially up the side walls) on a worn out 38' Semi Dump Trailer floor.
It was years ago but my best guess of time was about 4 hours per plate with set up time. IF you could get enough heat, you might be talking 40 hours with a TIG!
So to decide you need to determine what you will be welding rather than which machine is better.
Also if you have experience with O/A welding you will have the basics of puddle control with TIG.

 

[Mysfyt]

One more thing to consider is your power to feed the welding machine. My Lincoln 275 tig will pull about 80 amps on 208 3 ph when welding thicker aluminum, which means it gets fed by a 100 amp breaker. If you only have single phase and want to tackle aluminum, I'd steer you towards a Mig with a spool gun. My neighbor does it with his Miller 250 w/ spool gun off of a 50 amp breaker with no issues.

 

[Shield Arc]

Here are a couple machines I'd look into. I never ran either one, but have heard great things about both. I really like the looks of the push pull gun for the Miller 252.
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/mig-gmaw/millermatic-252
Miller Millermatic 252 High Output Mig Welder - 907321
POWER MIG® 350MP MIG Welder
https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?PNUM::1:UNDEF:X:K2403-2

 

[Shield Arc]

How about this one?
miller tig welder

Be nice to have a little more information about it!

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I am looking at getting a new machine. As the title states I am bouncing back and forth about which way to go TIG or MIG. Wife says that it can be a B'day present.:cool2:

The reason I want a new/different machine is Aluminum. My current Stick machines will do great at whatever thickness I need. I have been doing scratch-start Tig (thanks to Shield Arc) so I can TIG steel and am good with that. I am looking for more flexibility and the ability to do Aluminum. (and I don't want to have to get a Helium bottle.) Thus the search for which to focus on.

I am not the type to be satisfied with getting a low powered MIG (of course low powered Mig's might have a bit of a problem with Aluminum anyway) because if I have it I will also want to use in on thicker steel and it just won't do it. If I get a Mig I would have to have a spool gun or a real short feed and even then that might have a problem. A higher amperage Mig will run into very serious money or so I believe (especially with the spool gun).

If I go TIG the simpler/less expensive ones won't work, as the DC only TIGs won't allow me what I want. I have an argon bottle so no new bottle if I get a dedicated AC/DC Tig where with MIG I would need a new bottle.

What other trade-offs does the collective have to bring up to "help" the decision?
What other issues have I not addressed that I should?

First,
Establish your maximum budget for whatever you want to spend. I think that is of utmost importance. Try to establish a range in your budget. What you like to spend. What you could spend if you needed, and the absolute max price you'd pay that would keep you out of the dog house.
That will help guide you into what you need to consider.

Second,
Determine how thick you will actually weld in DC and in AC. That will narrow things down a bit further.

With that said, I'll put the balance of my 2 cents worth in.

You should look at inverters. They are the only thing that makes sense from a price and performance perspective. Ever wonder why you don't see a lot of "NEW" transformer machines introduced, and why many are being replaced by inverter models. Yeah, the durability thing and all the other things you hear about transformers make them look appealing, but honestly, anything made in the last 20 years will have electronics in them...even transformers. Anything really old will have many obsolete parts, and consume large amounts of electricity, AND require a visit to the back doctor after moving just once by yourself.
MIG/TIG/Stick units do not offer AC TIG. But they can offer a decent solution to times when you have a need to do aluminum, with a spool gun option.
Unless it is an Everlast, you typically won't find items like HF start in TIG, built in preflow/postflow control, no pulse or whatever, so you wouldn't improve the TIG function from what you already have been working with for the most part, but it would still be there as an "add on" when needed.

My simple recommendations are:

If you are willing to look at a company like ours, we can offer both a reasonably well equipped and powerful MIG with a spool gun and a decent AC DC TIG for still about half or less of any other brands inverter TIG. And still cheaper than many MIGs in the performance range you are looking for.
This would give you the ability to be flexible and do anything you would like without much restriction.

If not or if you have the budget, Craig's list around to see if you can find an almost new Miller or Lincoln inverter with some warranty left. It's possible to get a few hundred dollars off, and the liklihood of getting one now is better than ever since Miller has ditched the 200DX in favor of releasing the new 210DX. People will trade their nearly new iphone bought a few months ago just to get the latest model, and it's not much different with SOME welders...so you might, just might find a deal. Lincoln has the new 200 as well, but it is fairly limited on features...but still a relatively well priced unit from a major company...at least until they get everyone hooked and jump the price.

Anyway, those are some options to consider.

 

[muddstopper]

I tried tigging 3/8 alum once with my 250 amp lincoln. I kept blowing the 60amp fuses in my fuse box. With a air cooled torch, it got pretty hot on my hands. alum just sucks the heat out of your weld. It was a real pain and I finally just gave it up and went and bought the part I was trying to fix. After buying a couple of those old stick type 60amp fuses, I could of about paid for the part anyways. I dont have a spool gun so my alum tig is usually just on thin angle and tube, and I aint sure I do enough of that to even justify having the tig machine, and not enough to make me go out and buy a spool gun.

 

[Furu]

First,
Establish your maximum budget for whatever you want to spend. I think that is of utmost importance. Try to establish a range in your budget. What you like to spend. What you could spend if you needed, and the absolute max price you'd pay that would keep you out of the dog house.
That will help guide you into what you need to consider.

Second,
Determine how thick you will actually weld in DC and in AC. That will narrow things down a bit further.

With that said, I'll put the balance of my 2 cents worth in.

You should look at inverters. They are the only thing that makes sense from a price and performance perspective. Ever wonder why you don't see a lot of "NEW" transformer machines introduced, and why many are being replaced by inverter models. Yeah, the durability thing and all the other things you hear about transformers make them look appealing, but honestly, anything made in the last 20 years will have electronics in them...even transformers. Anything really old will have many obsolete parts, and consume large amounts of electricity, AND require a visit to the back doctor after moving just once by yourself.
MIG/TIG/Stick units do not offer AC TIG. But they can offer a decent solution to times when you have a need to do aluminum, with a spool gun option.
Unless it is an Everlast, you typically won't find items like HF start in TIG, built in preflow/postflow control, no pulse or whatever, so you wouldn't improve the TIG function from what you already have been working with for the most part, but it would still be there as an "add on" when needed.

My simple recommendations are:

If you are willing to look at a company like ours, we can offer both a reasonably well equipped and powerful MIG with a spool gun and a decent AC DC TIG for still about half or less of any other brands inverter TIG. And still cheaper than many MIGs in the performance range you are looking for.
This would give you the ability to be flexible and do anything you would like without much restriction.

If not or if you have the budget, Craig's list around to see if you can find an almost new Miller or Lincoln inverter with some warranty left. It's possible to get a few hundred dollars off, and the liklihood of getting one now is better than ever since Miller has ditched the 200DX in favor of releasing the new 210DX. People will trade their nearly new iphone bought a few months ago just to get the latest model, and it's not much different with SOME welders...so you might, just might find a deal. Lincoln has the new 200 as well, but it is fairly limited on features...but still a relatively well priced unit from a major company...at least until they get everyone hooked and jump the price.

Anyway, those are some options to consider.

Thanks Mark for posting.
I was hoping you would post an input on the subject. I will PM you separately.

What is the real difference between the analog and the digital TIG's that you (Everlast) have? Anything other than the displays and the technology for selecting the desired value of input/output?
Is there an internal difference that makes the digital machine better?

 

[Shield Arc]

Furu when you get your new welder, be it Tig or Mig. Do I get to play with it? :drool::drool::drool::drool:

 

[Furu]

Yes you will.
In addition, I will bring over the Plasma 80 and you can see what you think of it as well.
Nothing compared to your stable of equipment but something different to play with is always good.:cool2:

Thanks for the time and the long telephone conversation yesterday. :thumbsup:
It is always nice to have a resource such as you available to pump for information on the subject of welding.

 

[Shield Arc]

As I was telling you last night, my brother-n-law has my Everlast PowerArc 300. If you don't mind, I'd like to try one of my LN-25s on your PowerArc 300?
I was very impressed with my brother-n-law's PowerArc 200ST, with Lincoln's NR-212 self shielded wire.