Culvert Question

[dave1949]

I don't care how much stone/crush run/fabric you pour on that roadway, it's still a trench. You need drainage. That is going to require more width to crown it or material hauled in.

Now you see what I mean?? I'm talking "Missouri" conditions. You aren't in Missouri. So unless you can find a member on here that lives down the road from you, our advice is worthless.

Again, if you don't trust the guy, you hired the wrong person.

Yes, more width. You have some mirror magnet trees there. Also any tight curve or bend for sure needs more than 12' of width for trucks.

I didn't catch how long this road will be, but you will either have to move the trees back to make room for drainage grading and mowing along the sides or be prepared to do a lot of hand work trimming back the brush which will all grow towards the light--your road. Eventually the tree crowns will over shade the lane and slow the new growth.

It can be cheaper to buy a UTV with a nice cab than to build a long lane suitable for a Prius. Stone adds up and you are only at round one. It will need more for maintenance now and then.

 

[k0ua]

Sorry to the OP for the hijack here. But this is amusing and educational to me.

Here, pea gravel is natural stone sieved to a maximum size in inch measurements, usually 1" and down.

Here, limestone is always called gravel and is what's most commonly used to gravel roads, parking lots, etc.

Here, size is almost always in inch measurements. Then there are some additions to the name to described other materials involved. For example I have my township roads "graveled" with 1-1/4" gravel (crushed limestone). It is maximum 1-1/4" size down to course lime which is pea size.

The State uses 3/4" modified. It is 3/4" maximum, 1/2" minimum. Everything below screened out. It's also used in the making of concrete.

The quarries normally stock 2" (2" and down), 3" (3" and down) and sometimes 4" (4" and down) for base material. Next thing up from that is rip-rap, which is dynamited and loaded out of the hole before it goes to the crusher. The buyer can be selective about maximum size but generally takes what they get. Usually 2' diameter and down. It's normally used to fill large holes or very soft mud crossings. I use it around the ends of road culverts to control erosion. State uses it around bridges for the same purpose.

Very interesting how different regions name it differently. In your references, I see no correlation between the names and the size of the material.

The only difference down here is what you are calling rip rap, we call "blast rock"
I think us Missouri boys have a much more descriptive terminology for ordering gravel and rock products.. 57's and 411's don't describe anything to me.. 0 to 3/4 tells even an idiot like me what I need to know... pieces of limestone from 0 inches (dust) up to 3/4 of an inch.. for example.

 

[ovrszd]

The only difference down here is what you are calling rip rap, we call "blast rock"
I think us Missouri boys have a much more descriptive terminology for ordering gravel and rock products.. 57's and 411's don't describe anything to me.. 0 to 3/4 tells even an idiot like me what I need to know... pieces of limestone from 0 inches (dust) up to 3/4 of an inch.. for example.

Yeah, I've also heard it called "shot rock". Yep, I need relevant terms such as standard measurements rather than a series of numbers that have no relevance at all that I can see.

 

[LD1]

I am surprised you guys dont have the numbers like I mentioned. (57, #8, #304, etc). I thought that was kinda standard quarry terms everywhere. Now weather that stuff is called something different to the locals??? If you called a quarry in Missouri and asked for a load of 304's or a load of 57's, I would like to think they would know what that is.

 

[paulharvey]

Here in Florida we use limerock road base. It ranges from fist sized to lime dust, all a very soft rock. It compacts very nicely into one cohesive mass. We only use gravel/#57 stone for laying pipe in wet conditions.

Back to Sandy soils of the OP: sand is not a bad thing; for roads, with pure sugar sand sub soil; we add 4" of the rock and mix 12" deep. This gives a nice subgrade to place the base on. For driveways we always spec'd 6" of limerock right over compacted soil. I would much much prefer working on Sandy soils then gumbo clay or muck.

 

[LD1]

I would much much prefer working on Sandy soils then gumbo clay or muck.

Agreed. We have alot of muck up my way. Not much sand though

 

[Streetcar]

I am surprised you guys dont have the numbers like I mentioned. (57, #8, #304, etc). I thought that was kinda standard quarry terms everywhere. Now weather that stuff is called something different to the locals??? If you called a quarry in Missouri and asked for a load of 304's or a load of 57's, I would like to think they would know what that is.

Most of the stone terminology comes from state DOT specifications. Most states like to have their own names. It is fun working on state borders

 

[vtsnowedin]

The only difference down here is what you are calling rip rap, we call "blast rock"
I think us Missouri boys have a much more descriptive terminology for ordering gravel and rock products.. 57's and 411's don't describe anything to me.. 0 to 3/4 tells even an idiot like me what I need to know... pieces of limestone from 0 inches (dust) up to 3/4 of an inch.. for example.

Each state writes its own spec book so numbers and terminology vary but often the just cut and paste something from the federal Highways guide book or ASTM. Here Shot rock is all the rock from a blast not sorted out in any way and stone fill is sorted to be more or less uniform in size. For example "stone fill class A" consists of 50% of the stones being 12 cubic feet and 30 % being between 3 and 12 cubic feet in size.
Rip rap is even more sorted with "rip rap A" 75 percent of the stones will have a volume of 2 cubic feet and it gets laid in a tight nit one foot thick layer.
So here at least they are not just different names for the same thing but different things entirely.

 

[ovrszd]

I am surprised you guys dont have the numbers like I mentioned. (57, #8, #304, etc). I thought that was kinda standard quarry terms everywhere. Now weather that stuff is called something different to the locals??? If you called a quarry in Missouri and asked for a load of 304's or a load of 57's, I would like to think they would know what that is.

I know the scalehouse lady at our quarry. I'll call her later today and inquire.

 

[k0ua]

I know the scalehouse lady at our quarry. I'll call her later today and inquire.

I am curious to what she will say too. I have seen so many references on here by members calling rock products so many different names. It is laughable when people roll off these product names like we in different regions would know what that means.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

PennDot Stone Cross reference To confuse things even more PennDot has their own system that I'm familiar with. This chart does cross reference to AASHTO though.

 

[LD1]

I know the scalehouse lady at our quarry. I'll call her later today and inquire.

I too and curious to see what she says.

I am curious to what she will say too. I have seen so many references on here by members calling rock products so many different names. It is laughable when people roll off these product names like we in different regions would know what that means.

Yep. Lots of different local names for things. But I thought (maybe wrongfully so) that the numbers I listed were kinda universal. Thats why I call them that.

 

[LD1]

These guys are out of median OH. I have no affiliation with them, but they do have a nice size pictorial that shows exactally the numbers I referenced

Albrecht Trucking-Limestone

 

[ovrszd]

Well, I'm almost embarrassed to post the results..... We ain't very technical here in the Show-Me State.

She said they carry the following products.

AG Lime - crusher dust used to raise the PH level on farm ground
Course Lime - material too large for AG use and too small to be included in 3/8" chips, used for fill material under concrete for example
3/8" chips - 3/8" chips with fines screened out, used to chip/seal road oil, primarily used by State Hiway Dept to chip seal road shoulders, etc.
3/4" modified - 3/4" stone with fines screened out, used primarily in the making of asphalt and sometimes used by State Hiway Dept on road shoulders.
1" road rock - 1" stone with an allowed percentage of smalls, AG Lime screened out, used for driveways and limited use roadways and/or parking lots.
1-1/4" road rock - 1-1/4" stone with an allowed percentage of smalls, AG Lime screened out, used for heavier trafficked roadways or driveways and/or parking lots that are based on softer material. It's what I use on my country gravel roads.
2" oversized rock - 2" stone with an allowed percentage of smalls, AG Lime screened out, used for heavier trafficked roadways, driveways, parking lots where more floatation is needed. I sometimes use it to repair soft spots on my country roads. I also use it when converting a dirt road to gravel as a base.
Rip-Rap - which is dynamited rock from the ledge, not crusher ran, can have any maximum size as required, minimum fines because it's not been crushed. I use it around the outflow ends of road culverts in locations where erosion is bad.

That's all she had to offer....

Oh, I rattled off the numbers LD1 had listed with descriptions and she looked at me like I was from Mars.

 

[k0ua]

Oh, I rattled off the numbers LD1 had listed with descriptions and she looked at me like I was from Mars.

I would be willing to bet there are dozens if not hundreds of "designations" for stone products... by state and region.

57's 411's 304's. yeah right.. like I would know what that was...:laughing:

On a forum like this where we have such a diverse group it is amazing that we have as much in common as we do. As an example we all know that orange tractors are best, but then comes the problems of which shade of orange?

 

[LD1]

AG Lime - Same

3/8" chips - #8
3/4" modified - #57
1" road rock - #411
1-1/4" road rock - #304
2" oversized rock - #304
Rip-Rap - Same

Seems to be about what it compares to in my neck of the woods

On a forum like this where we have such a diverse group it is amazing that we have as much in common as we do. As an example we all know that orange tractors are best, but then comes the problems of which shade of orange?

You know, I never said kubota was better. (well maybe just giving you a hard time).

I wouldnt hestiate to own or operate a kioti. Or many other for that matter. Truth is, the best tractor for me has less to do about the actual machine, and more to do with price, availability, and dealer. The only dealers that were in what I consider reasonable distance were deere, CNH, and bota. And bota offered what I needed for less $$$

 

[jrepp44]

So here is the plan....

1. Let the area settle for about a week
2. Bring in dozer w/six way blade to shape road and cut ditches for water runoff
3. Lay geotextile fabric.
4. Lay base layer of larger stone.
5. Finish off top with crush and run.

Sounds like you have a good plan, the only thing I would recommend is during the week you are letting the area settle drive something heavy back and forth repeatedly over the entire area to aid with compacting (provided you have proper soil moisture content).

 

[Streetcar]

AG Lime - Same

3/8" chips - #8
3/4" modified - #57
1" road rock - #411
1-1/4" road rock - #304
2" oversized rock - #304
Rip-Rap - Same

Seems to be about what it compares to in my neck of the woods



You know, I never said kubota was better. (well maybe just giving you a hard time).

I wouldnt hestiate to own or operate a kioti. Or many other for that matter. Truth is, the best tractor for me has less to do about the actual machine, and more to do with price, availability, and dealer. The only dealers that were in what I consider reasonable distance were deere, CNH, and bota. And bota offered what I needed for less $$$

LD1 what part of Ohio are you in .
In southern Ohio and by state specifications 304 and 411 are bank run materials

Here the Deere dealer made the best offer

 

[LD1]

Yes, 304 and 411 I have heard called bank run, crusher run, 3/4-minus and 1-1/2 minus etc.

411 is everything that will fall through a 3/4" screen. Pebbles, dust etc

304 is anything that will fall through a 1-1/2" screen

 

[ovrszd]

Yes, 304 and 411 I have heard called bank run, crusher run, 3/4-minus and 1-1/2 minus etc.

411 is everything that will fall through a 3/4" screen. Pebbles, dust etc

304 is anything that will fall through a 1-1/2" screen

When this numbering process was being created how did they come up with those numbers?? My pea size (3/8" chips) brain can't find any connection.