New wood stoves

NorTracNY · Mar 30, 2015

I built a new house with radiant floor heat which I love. There were thoughts of placing a wood burning stove in our place, but we decided against it. Both my wife and I grew up with wood burning stoves. Both of us experienced the dust in the house from burning all winter. Of course there were the periodic times that our parents didn't feed the stove perfectly and a far amount of smoke would enter the house.

I recognize that things have changed significantly in the last few decades. I'm hearing about very high efficiency stoves. Do these stoves impact the dust/smoke that would enter the house? I'd love to hear from people that have replaced their old stoves with a new one. We have plenty of lower quality trees on our place. I actually have enough black walnut/ash logs for several years of heat. I'm always for reducing my energy cost, but I need a happy wife. I'm also not interested in increasing the amount of dust in the house.

dave1949 · Mar 30, 2015

Interesting thought. My guess is the amount of dust produced by a stove is in direct proportion to the number of times the stove door is opened for tending.

A pellet stove would be cleaner than a cord wood stove. A counter-flow masonry stove with an airtight door that is fired once or twice a day is cleaner too but you still get some dust.

An outdoor boiler or better, a high efficiency boiler in a dedicated shed would keep it outside the house. You could supply hydronic radiant heat from the boiler as needed or desired. This would be the cleanest way to use your own wood but it's expensive up front.

ADD: Supposedly the "greenest" method of using a wood boiler is to have an insulated large water storage tank ~600 gallons to store heat. The water in that tank is heated by firing the boiler, then heat is drawn from it over the next 24 hours. The boiler fire is running at or near its max efficiency when in use.

KennyG · Mar 30, 2015

The better stoves all use outside air for combustion instead of indoor air. They are sometimes called "air-tight" although they really aren't. By using outside air you drastically reduce the amount of air (and dust) coming into the house. I don't know that makes much difference. In our area there really isn't much dust in the air during heating season, but it might in some locations.

From my perspective, the only mess is from the wood itself. I've never been able to bring a lot of wood into the house and not end up with some on the floor.

s219 · Mar 30, 2015

We run our high-efficiency fireplace unit with the doors open most of the time, and I haven't noticed any dust problems at all. Same goes for when it runs with doors closed and fan on, with only periodic opening to feed logs. It has an outdoor air kit to pull in combustion air.

Can't imagine why a stove would be any different. I certainly don't remember a dust problem problem with a wood stove when I was growing up.

Industrial Toys · Mar 30, 2015

Seems to me, the more efficient the stove is, the finer the ash particles. I curse the salesman that sold me my airtight. It's way too small! You have to fuss with it way more often, which means a big mess. Plus it doesn't take long before the ashes are spilling out and again, a big mess. Our fireplace upstairs, with glass doors and a heatilater (sp?), can take three foot logs and is much easier to deal with. Not nearly as efficient mind you.

I'm seriously considering an outside boiler but wonder if feeding that thing will grow old really quick!

David P · Mar 31, 2015

I've been thinking about a wood stove for our home as well. We have a good supply of hardwoods and I would love to cut our utility bills a bit. Local dealer carries and recommended Blaze King so I checked them out. I tell you what, I was hard-pressed to even find a negative word on them and in the only thread I did find, the VP of the company was assisting to get things sorted out. In the end, the customer fixed his problem (it wasn't the stove) and is now singing their praises.

Blaze King stoves are at the top of the efficiency food chain. I think they have 5 of the 8 top-rated stoves by the EPA. Their claim to fame is their very long burn times. Check them out and see what you think. Hearth.com is a pretty good resource.

farmer2009 · Mar 31, 2015

I have some family and friends that have outdoor wood boilers. They all love them. They all have a non epa Hardy boiler. None of them have to fill the stove more than twice a day. Most of the time they say they fill it right before bed and before they go to work. If home during the day and useing extra hot water then they say they'll check it during the day but usually don't need to feed it.

NorTracNY · Mar 31, 2015

Thanks for the responses. I have thought about the outdoor wood boilers. One of my concerns is that I'm not in the US, I'm in NYS. The DEC is pretty aggressive at attacking the people. There are towns around me that are outright banning them. There was an article not long ago in my paper that talked about a person who bought one, and the town shortly afterwards banned them. They gave him 7 years to be done with it!

I guess the dust must primarily be from when you open the door and put in new wood. It you're pushing around the wood that's left, your disturbing the ashes.

Eric Salop · Mar 31, 2015

NorTracNY said:
I guess the dust must primarily be from when you open the door and put in new wood. It you're pushing around the wood that's left, your disturbing the ashes.

Most of our woodstoves in the UK are now installed with an insulated stainless steel flue pipe that goes right up through the roof. This keeps the entire column of air warm and gives a much better draw than an open chimney stack. Can't say we ever get smoke coming back down into the room. I haven't noticed dust come out when feeding a hot fire neither, probably because there is then a good flow of air up the flue to whisk away any fine particles.

Most dust is when it comes time to clean out ashes. Not disturbing them too much seems to be the trick. Carrying out the ash pan with a steady hand is all I do, although I have heard of others that spray the surface of the pan with a plant water mister.

MotorSeven · Mar 31, 2015

Our house seems dusty both winter and summer & we heat 90% with wood, so I don't think ashes have much to do with it. As far as OWB's go, the owners are their own worst enemy because most of them burn green wood which equals smoke. Firewood should always be cut split and stacked for 2 years...anything less and you are making steam which robs you of the BTU's.

Creamer · Mar 31, 2015

s219 said:
We run our high-efficiency fireplace unit with the doors open most of the time, and I haven't noticed any dust problems at all.

May I ask why? You don't have outside combustion air if the doors are open. You don't have control of the fire if the doors are open. that is really no different than a standard fireplace with no insert.

Industrial Toys · Mar 31, 2015

I was kind of thinking the same thing!

I can only run a fire for a few days and then I am tired of it, maybe until the next weekend when I have company. That's why I wonder if I am up to an outdoor boiler.

I started the basement stove a couple of months back with cardboard and kindling. The smoke started billowing into the room through the intake vents and filled the room with putrid smoke to the extent that I could not see accross the room. I doused it with water and had doors and windows open for the next twelve hours or so, to try and keep my furnishings from taking on the smell of a burned out building. I was sure that some animal had compromised my grating on the chimney and risked life and limb on an icy roof to check, but found nothing! A week later, the fire started as if nothing had happended. Just a down draft, cold chimney or something, but a major PITA!

arrow · Mar 31, 2015

NorTracNY said:
I built a new house with radiant floor heat which I love. There were thoughts of placing a wood burning stove in our place, but we decided against it. Both my wife and I grew up with wood burning stoves. Both of us experienced the dust in the house from burning all winter. Of course there were the periodic times that our parents didn't feed the stove perfectly and a far amount of smoke would enter the house.

I recognize that things have changed significantly in the last few decades. I'm hearing about very high efficiency stoves. Do these stoves impact the dust/smoke that would enter the house? I'd love to hear from people that have replaced their old stoves with a new one. We have plenty of lower quality trees on our place. I actually have enough black walnut/ash logs for several years of heat. I'm always for reducing my energy cost, but I need a happy wife. I'm also not interested in increasing the amount of dust in the house.

NT, I have a state of the art EPA approved wood stove. my house is dusty because it is poorly insulated,. I have never attempted outside air kit so I do not know how they impact dust. As Motor Seven, my house is dusty in summer as well. Judging from your remarks, I do not think a wood stove is for you for these reasons: 1. You have stated you have "a few years of hardwood". A wood stove is quite the initial investment. Efficient stoves are in the $2500-$3000 and more category. We have not even discussed if you have the proper flue liner and if not, that's another grand. 2. What happens after the "few years" are up? Are you going to buy wood? Will wood be a "life style" or a pain in the neck? 3. Wood is dirty. Your space will be compromised by this "debris". 4. Much dust is made when you "clean out the stove". I use a shovel because the ash drawer was invented by a person who got their kicks out of making people crazy.

In your shoes, I'd cut and sell the wood. If you wanted a "back up" as someone suggested before, get into a good pellet stove which will not be cheap either but a lot more convenient and cleaner. Another alternative is "solar voltaic panels" especially if you have electric heat. These have about an 8 year payback for a residential outlay on just the electricity use alone. Rather than store it with a large battery array, I'd sell any excess back to the electric company. If you had to burn your wood, I'd get one of those very pretty European type stoves that are some of the most efficient in the world (pictured). They look like furniture but you'll still have the "wood mess". Outside boilers are getting technologically better but they have large fire boxes and because of the heat exchange to water, you'll go through more wood. Again, a large investment of $10K or more.

I've made firewood for my home since 1978. I have fed these stoves from a 100 acre lot which because of selling, is now reduced to 5. I will be running out of wood lot within the next 5 years but I do it as a way of life. The fringe benefit is that I heat my home as a result of my "hobby". I have invested about 30K between stove, tools, tractors but I have saved more than double that over the years. Even if I broke even, I'd still probably do it as it seems to simply be "in my blood" to do so. For me, that would be the largest reason to justify burning wood.

Country Geek · Mar 31, 2015

I think you nailed it arrow. Heating with wood isn't just a fuel source, it's a lifestyle. You're either cut out for it or you're not.

I'm not. I'd like to consider it when I'm retired and have the time to indulge everything that the wood heat ifestyle entails, but as a cog in a corporate machine today, I'll use my geothermal heat pump and turn on my gas fireplace when I have a winter hour or two free to enjoy some fire ambiance. Heating with wood isn't something to fit into a free hour or two.

2458n · Mar 31, 2015

I start my fire with a Harbor Freight weed burner. You get enough heat going up the chimney that the smoke all goes outside. Great tool.

s219 · Mar 31, 2015

Creamer said:
May I ask why? You don't have outside combustion air if the doors are open. You don't have control of the fire if the doors are open. that is really no different than a standard fireplace with no insert.

Keep in mind this is a high efficiency fireplace, not a stove or insert. It's rated for 100,000 BTU/Hr assuming much of that is radiant heat.

This type of fireplace pushes out more radiant heat with doors open, by far, and that gives a slower more liesurely fire. The outside air vent is open and supplying fresh air regards of what the doors are doing. It's just not the only source, and so the flow of air is not as controlled.

The only time we close the doors are when we're not in that part of the house to keep an eye on things. With doors closed, the burn is more uniform, because then the specific airflow pattern of the outside air kit takes over and controls things. The unit still put out decent convective heat as long as the fan is running, but not nearly as much radiative heat.

westcliffe01 · Mar 31, 2015

I found that the mail culprit with dust is shovelling hot ash out of the stove. When the shovel full of ash comes out the hot stove, air rises above the ash and some fine ash gets carried up with the rising air, to later settle out somewhere else. If you can allow the stove and contents to cool off, this will reduce the problem quite a bit, but during heating season I am burning 24/7 so a small amount of dust is just a normal consequence.

I will say that I think that a conventional furnace produces and distributes a lot more dust than running the wood stove. I can keep the humidity of the house better managed using a 2 gal pot of water boiling on the stove and I can enjoy a graduated temperature distribution with the bedrooms cooler than the main living area. I guess I am just not a fan of forced air heating systems...

Industrial Toys · Mar 31, 2015

I always thought that stoves only achieved efficiency by limiting air ingress into the fire chamber. Hence the term, air tight.

I always have a huge mess on my shop floor, where there is a nice BIG air tight stove I got for free. I built legs for it so I don't have to kneel down and a shelf underneith for firewood. Anyway, I intend to poke a one and a half inch hole through the wall to which I can permanantly attach one of those air operated (venturi) style vacuumes. I am shure HF has them. Then I can easily suck up the mess and it gets blown straight outside. A regular vacuume does not have good enough filtration to catch all the ash and it's a bother. I wish I had something like that in the house.

dave1949 · Mar 31, 2015

A shop vac with a HEPA filter will catch wood ash, drywall dust, etc.

An airtight stove is one that the amount of air entering the firebox can be totally controlled with a damper of some sort. No other air leaks in around a door or whatever. That's really all it means. If a stove is truly airtight, closing the air inlet should put out the fire.

brokenknee · Mar 31, 2015

One thing that has not been brought up yet is that the new epa stoves if a downdraft type (which I own Harman tl300) or a cat type stove, you do not get the fire show once the afterburner or cat is kicked in. Once I kick in the afterburner on my stove you will see some flame for a short time and then you are looking at a glowing mass.

I went to the new epa stove in the middle of last winter, this winter it looks like I will go through 8 (full) cords of ash. The last full year I heated with my old air tight furnace I went through 12 (full) cords, the new stove are much more efficient so they require less feeding.

As already stated heating with wood is more of a life style, one were you can save a few bucks, but if you figure in your time to process the wood and feed the stove and the cost and maintenance of the equipment. The cost savings are not that great, but then it is all how you value your time. For me it gets me outside and some exercise to boot.

As far as the comment on the outside air intake for wood stoves there is an interesting thread over on hearth.com on the value of them. There are different opinions as if they are effective or not. My harman dealer said he as a rule does not recommend them unless the house is very tight.