Locating Pipes

[farmer2009]

I am needing to locate some pipes and wires that I didn't install underground (they were here when I bought). I don't know if power is in conduit or not. It is from ground up but wondering if it stops after the 90. Power company will mark to meter but then they stop. Everything is on my side of meter. Plus need to locate water lines. What I am wondering is what the TBN folks use to locate lines with?

 

[kenmac]

I use a device called a pipe horn. It will locate wires as well as metal pipe. Their not cheap. mine is an older model that I've had for several yrs.

 

[Paul N]

Since you live in Kentucky, you should be able to find some one that can use "witchin sticks". I've heard some amazing stories of people locating pipes and wires this way, when the high tech gadgets couldn't. Sorry about the Kentucky crack.

 

[phuse71]

Your locale electrician may have cable finder for your cabling and possibly your water pipe if it is steel/iron/copper. Most cable/water lines are in the same trench or in the same line in general as a cost saving measure. If your water lines a poly/PVC I have had a electrician put a cable down the pipe first then he checked with a cable finder. Otherwise you can hand dig a couple of spots first before using a machine just to be safe. I work at a remote mine site and our drawings had 2 pipes marked on them and we found 6 in total, lucky we had dug first. As 2 were high pressure air and one a cable put in a steel line.

 

[PILOON]

In my area all excavators need to call a central phone number to have the hydro, electrical phone cabled and gas lines located before work starts.
They place little colored flags to mark the lines, color coded to indicate the specific service.
I would be very surprised if your state did not have a similar service.

 

[pokerboy57]

Oh man.... let me tell you I had a propane generator and a tankless water heater installed by a local propane company. The contractor got cheap or stupid or both and didn't call "Call before you Dig" which is a service you can pay for to mark out underground electrical, etc. I watched as the backhoe raised what looked like a root but turned out to be was the main electrical cable going to my house. Sparks everywhere as it was ripped from the meter box..... 6 hours later the power was restored to my house.......

Unless you love adventure use a service like "Call before you dig".

 

[dragoneggs]

Oh man.... let me tell you I had a propane generator and a tankless water heater installed by a local propane company. The contractor got cheap or stupid or both and didn't call "Call before you Dig" which is a service you can pay for to mark out underground electrical, etc. I watched as the backhoe raised what looked like a root but turned out to be was the main electrical cable going to my house. Sparks everywhere as it was ripped from the meter box..... 6 hours later the power was restored to my house.......

Unless you love adventure use a service like "Call before you dig".

Hey poker boy, :laughing: this post belongs in the welding forum.

 

[turnkey4099]

Since you live in Kentucky, you should be able to find some one that can use "witchin sticks". I've heard some amazing stories of people locating pipes and wires this way, when the high tech gadgets couldn't. Sorry about the Kentucky crack.

I do it but have serious doubts about it. I can trace pipes, wire fairly accurately IF if have a general idea where they are. Working without any clue? Very poor. Interesting recent case of checking it.

Had a leak in the well causing water to run back into the well after pump shut off. Well service called 811, they came out and marked the phone line only as I hve overhead electrical service, no gas, and we knwew where the water lineswere approximately.

Well service came when I was not home and put pretty white marks with arrows. I didn't know what they were marking so got out my rods. Yep, they indicated over every mark and traced between marks. Being an old, old house I figured they were old water lines. Well service showed upand I asked about the markings "We did that so the 811 guys would know where we wanted to dig". Got my sticks and rechecked...not even a quiver at any of the marks. For the life of me I cannot tell how I am causing them to move.

Harry K

 

[tractchores]

I personally dig a hole with my BH - find them every time! Seriously though if you know the starting and end point they're almost certainly in a straight line (no one likes to dig more than needed). I usually dig down to the wire or pipe at both ends by hand so I know depth then use a laser pointer or string to connect the dots.

 

[Walkin Horse]

In my area all excavators need to call a central phone number to have the hydro, electrical phone cabled and gas lines located before work starts.
They place little colored flags to mark the lines, color coded to indicate the specific service.
I would be very surprised if your state did not have a similar service.

Ms utility only marks the public lines from the street to the house. Anything going from say the house to a garage or barn your on your own. That's where the backhoes come in to play.

 

[garacuda]

In KY you can call 811. It's a free service.......so they say. Just know that it will take them a couple of days to get to you.

 

[rtimgray]

When 811 marks for us, they only mark the utility-owned portion of the line - i.e. it stops at the meter/service entrance/etc. If you have any line running from there, you are on your own...

 

[paulharvey]

When 811 marks for us, they only mark the utility-owned portion of the line - i.e. it stops at the meter/service entrance/etc. If you have any line running from there, you are on your own...

That's the way I believe it is everywhere. Sometimes the locator will be nice and mark the portion of the service that's in the right away, or even a bit onto your property; but everything beyond the meter is your responsibility. I would try to spot dig it at the last locate, then follow the path of least resistance, looking for a trench line. If it's really important, there are companies that do private locating. I'm guessing they are a couple hundred bucks for a fairly simple job. If your interested in that approach (if it's super critical, and you really can't find it after pot holing) try calling locally surveyor and Geotechnical companies. If they don't do the service, they probably can point you in right direction.

I do witch lines; I take a wire locate flag, bend it into an "L". You very loosely hold one or two flags point out level, away from your body. You slowly walk perpendicular to where the utility line is; the flags will turn in towards you when you cross it. It'd not scientific, doesn't always work, and doesn't tell you what's down there; but I've used it before with fair resullts.

Another option is recall 811, and meet the locator onsite; some can be very helpful; even when it's not there job. A $20 bill might get them to flag a short run to the house; but don't expect those marks to be legally binding. In Florida, they don't give you depth, and you are responsible for 24" either side of locate mark. Past 24" away from marked path, it's on them; BUT be dam sure to document and take tons of pictures. It's not uncommon for a locator to take pictures of a cut at angles that are; umm; "beneficial" to them, if you get what I'm saying. After all, the locate company pays for the repair if they miss locate and the utility provided accurate info.

 

[farmer2009]

811 is a free survice here. I have used them in the past. But they stop at the meter. The phone line is the only thing I will be crossing that they will mark. Was wanting to go around septic field and not disturb it but will have to cross power line to shop, waterline to barn (PVC), septic line from tank to field and maybe a gas line and a/c power line. Was looking for ways to locate these without the exploratory digging. New building that power and water is going to isn't built yet but is in planning stages. Hope to build by end of summer.

 

[farmer2009]

Since you live in Kentucky, you should be able to find some one that can use "witchin sticks". I've heard some amazing stories of people locating pipes and wires this way, when the high tech gadgets couldn't. Sorry about the Kentucky crack.

Have a set. But they arnt real accurate. But then again I wear shoes.

 

[paulharvey]

Have a set. But they arnt real accurate. But then again I wear shoes.

That's the problem, how to you expect to get signal when you don't have a good ground contact. Ditch the shoes.

 

[rtimgray]

There was a looooong thread about pipe witching/divining on this board a while ago. Someone who knows how to search better than I do might be able to find it, because it was pretty entertaining, although I'm sure it got pruned a couple of times, and it might have even gotten locked...

 

[boggen]

hand dig first, but if there is power going to the cables, TURN THE POWER OFF and disconnect wire from the power completely, it is way to easy to take a spade / shovel and cut right through the a wire, telephone, cable lines, HAH, you may not even realized you put shovel right through the cable!, hitting a pvc pipe with a shovel might cause pipe to break / rupture.

darn if you do, darn if you don't *arghs*

for myself i finally gave up, and just sunk the backhoe into the ground. and began digging, hit both the electrical, and water lines. *shrugs* good thing i was already planing to put new water and electrical to shed, just wish i could of kept the water lines going to some garden hydrants, and the electrical off to a old pump pit.

here's to ya, in hope it ends up being easy findings!

 

[k0ua]

Oh man.... let me tell you I had a propane generator and a tankless water heater installed by a local propane company. The contractor got cheap or stupid or both and didn't call "Call before you Dig" which is a service you can pay for to mark out underground electrical, etc. I watched as the backhoe raised what looked like a root but turned out to be was the main electrical cable going to my house. Sparks everywhere as it was ripped from the meter box..... 6 hours later the power was restored to my house.......

Unless you love adventure use a service like "Call before you dig".

Hey poker boy, :laughing: this post belongs in the welding forum.

I bet it got real interesting around your place for just a little bit!:laughing:

 

[Gary Fowler]

It's easy enough to fix a water line if you break it with your back hoe, so just start digging after you have identified the utility portions. Electrical lines not so much, so if you suspect an unmarked buried electrical cable, the best way is to hand dig to locate the ends then string line between and then hand dig the middle section to confirm that it is straight line. After that a prudent operator should be able to dig most of the way without damaging the cable. Last few inches would need to be hand dug unless you want to replace the whole line.

If you are hiring a back hoe to dig, it may be cheaper to just dig it all up and replace/ repair rather than hand dig, wait (paying backhoe by the hour) hand dig, wait (pay more hours for the hoe) etc.