Big tractor syndrome

[Cherokee140]

Seriously though, you should probably be thinking a bit bigger than you are especially if you are thinking backhoe. I couldn't imagine having a smaller hoe than my 2485 and have it be worth the money spent and you are looking at smaller machines than that....

That is just what I don't understand. Like I said I have zero experience with a backhoe on anything other then a purpose built machine....never on a tractor....so all I have to go off of is really videos I have seen on youtube. Yea not a real great way to tell what the machines can do.

That said you see machines in the size of the BX and 1 series doing some real work. A great many videos. Leveling ground, digging up stumps, water lines....gravel....stuff I want to do. I listen to the engines on the machines and they don't seem to bog down when lifting stuff that looks pretty darn heavy. Does not look like anything is bending or straining. They seem to like those machines.

I am not saying this to try to justify the machine to myself, but that is really what is out there and really all I have to go on. Then so many people say...oh that is too small it will never do it....you need the next size bigger, it will not have the power, you will bend/break, or not be able to do it. Well I think if that was the case the net would be full of people that pushed the machine too hard and broke it....lets face it if it says it will lift 100lbs people will try to lift 200 with it....If the speed limit is 65 you will go 70...people always push the limit....you know they do....but there is just not the flood of this busted or that is weak on the smaller machines.

If they are really too small, give me some real facts....not your stories of your buddies friends brothers uncles sister cousin that had one and the wheels fell off of it the second he moved the backhoe.

But right now I only have stories and people saying I would not do it.

I am not wanting to be a jerk or anything, and I am sure people will come in and say...well sounds like your mind is already made up....no it is not, but I have no real proof that the smaller machines are going to be damaged, not last, not be able to do it....I assure you that is not the case.

I am sure that people buy the smaller machines and then decide that it is too small....one of the dealers has a used 1025R that the story is just that, he bought it but thought it was too small....only thing is the machine has .4 hours on it....how in the heck can you determine anything in .4 hours.....or are you that daft you bought it thinking it would run your round bailer.

Snow storms for this weekend so likely I will have another week to try to figure this out.....I really think I am over thinking it....but one thing I do know....I don't want to buy less then I need....but I also don't want to buy more machine then I will ever use.

You also read that people say the machines will do the work....just a little slower....well ok, not a problem....this is not my job, and it is sure going to be faster then me getting my 17yr old kid out there with a shovel.

 

[TripleR]

Cherokee140, it looks like we are going to get some bad weather too even down here in the sunny south, so it looks like I will be grounded too. I just finished doing some much needed road maintenance; man it was nice to get out.

Look up threads started by bp fick and JOHNTHOMAS, they have gone back and forth from BX to B and back, both are very knowledgeable, have no bias one way or the other and are a great resource if you want to PM them. Anything that applies to the BX goes for the JD one series.

 

[GPintheMitten]

No one is going to prove it one way or the other.

Just buy the BX and be done with it.

 

[murphy1244]

No one is going to prove it one way or the other.

Just buy the BX and be done with it.

I said that in post # 2

 

[k0ua]

Cherokee, this is James down in Branson, and if you wanted to come down here and play with my Kioti Dk35se machine I would sure let you. (I would not recommend this weekend either) But If I had your 13 acres and want to clean out fence rows.. well now this is just an opinion, but I sure would not want much smaller than what I have.

I have had 3 tractors on this place alone, and it is just 7 acres, of which I can run around on only about 4 of it, but I have traded up in size and capability each time. Started with a B7500DT, then an L3400HST and now the Kioti. Which is not a whole lot longer or wider than the Kubota L3400HST but weight 1066 lbs more and has a stronger loader. The difference in adding 1066 lbs of build in weight is a lot, because weight equals the ability to put power to the ground. The Kubota and the Kioti are near identical in the HP department, but the Kubota L series is just not as heavy as the Kioti.
And the L series is so much heavier and stronger than the B7500dt It replaced it is not even funny. Rocks I struggled to push around with the B7500, I could lift up and carry off with the L3400.. and the B7500 is larger heavier and has far greater ground clearance than the BX or 1 series you are considering.

I gave $19,300 for my Kioti with loader and loaded tires and canopy as you see in my avatar. I do not have the backhoe, as it is just too darn rocky around here or I would have one.

So I have a tractor 4 sizes larger than what you are considering, and less than 1/2 of the property to maintain.. You mentioned grapple, well I have one, and it is real handy. But I suspect you will want to lift things that might weigh close to 1000 lbs, and you sure are not going to do that with a loader rated for 400 lbs minus the weight of the grapple Plus you have to step up in tractor size to get one equipped with the standard SSQA for the front end so that you can change out your front end implement easily.

Of course now they are starting to make a proprietary QA for the BX to try to address that, but the availability of SSQA compatible implements that fit all brands is a real advantage.

Now I might be crazy, (and plenty of people have said just that), but If I were you, I would consider something a little larger. Again this is just one mans opinion.
Good luck in what ever you decide

 

[motownbrowne]

There's another thread started by Nanook a few days ago. Similar thing, wants a bx or a b to get his property ready to sell and then to maintain the 40 acres he's going to buy. Sounds crazy to me. If you're gonna spend the money anyway, spend a little more and get something that will lift more, do more, and use regularly sized implements.

 

[rjwerth]

That is just what I don't understand. Like I said I have zero experience with a backhoe on anything other then a purpose built machine....never on a tractor....so all I have to go off of is really videos I have seen on youtube. Yea not a real great way to tell what the machines can do.

You also read that people say the machines will do the work....just a little slower....well ok, not a problem....this is not my job, and it is sure going to be faster then me getting my 17yr old kid out there with a shovel.

Just so you know where I'm coming from, I had never run a backhoe of any size before I bought mine. Like you, I watched a lot videos of people on their tractor backhoes and of course had seen plenty of real backhoes in use. And after all that, I still wish more from mine. As fun as it is to use, it feels like it takes forever to do what I want to do. Am I the type of person who wants everything done fast and efficient? Guilty. When you tell me that you've used a real hoe, I worry you will be disappointed. It takes a lot of weight to run a hoe well and a BX just doesn't have it. Will it be faster than a shovel? You bet. Will it do more than a shovel? A little...but not much.

 

[GPintheMitten]

You know you try to help people. They want your opinion, then they want you to prove it. I'm done with this thread. Unsubscribing.

 

[jenkinsph]

While we all know that a little backhoe can dig a hole with smaller bites recognize that the small boom and stick makes it difficult to move the dirt far enough when stacking. This can be a real problem for you on larger holes. In addition to this is trying to get a stump out of the hole once you get it loosened up, much easier with a larger hoe. My experience is that a 40hp tlb will dig up stumps about 4 to 5 times faster than a 25 hp tlb. That may not seem important to you now but when you come to the 100th stump you have to dig up you may wish you had bought a larger tractor.

If I were buying a new machine for 13 acres that I planned on fixing up extensively then a 35 to 40 hp tractor/tlb is what I would get. Get a tractor that will handle six foot implements and a decent fel, that will eliminate needing to move up from a "too small tractor" and lower cost in the long term.

 

[murphy1244]

Too bad they don't make the JD 110 that would be Ideal. Maybe a used one.

 

[GManBart]

I am not saying this to try to justify the machine to myself, but that is really what is out there and really all I have to go on. Then so many people say...oh that is too small it will never do it....you need the next size bigger, it will not have the power, you will bend/break, or not be able to do it. Well I think if that was the case the net would be full of people that pushed the machine too hard and broke it....lets face it if it says it will lift 100lbs people will try to lift 200 with it....If the speed limit is 65 you will go 70...people always push the limit....you know they do....but there is just not the flood of this busted or that is weak on the smaller machines.

That isn't how tractor FELs and BHs work....if you try to lift too much, they go into relief, and nothing further happens. Ideally, that relief setting is shy of the point where stuff breaks. That doesn't mean you're not heavily stressing all of the components.

Remember, nobody here has a dog in the fight....you can buy whatever you want, but I'm not sure why there's an ongoing question of "is this too small?" If you don't think a BX, or similar, is too small...knock yourself out. Nobody can tell you what is, or isn't too small, and it's like you're asking people to prove to you that you need to go larger. Most people don't like to debate/argue, so they aren't going to go out if their way to "prove" anything like this on an Internet forum....they'll just stop responding, as some folks already have.

If you weren't concerned about buying too small of a machine, you wouldn't be asking the question, you'd just go buy one. If it's that important to you, that probably means it's a hint that maybe you should hedge your bets, and go with a slightly larger machine to prevent being disappointed. I suspect that if you do that, you'll still wind up wishing you'd gone even larger, but only time will tell.

 

[jenkinsph]

That isn't how tractor FELs and BHs work....if you try to lift too much, they go into relief, and nothing further happens. Ideally, that relief setting is shy of the point where stuff breaks. That doesn't mean you're not heavily stressing all of the components.

Remember, nobody here has a dog in the fight....you can buy whatever you want, but I'm not sure why there's an ongoing question of "is this too small?" If you don't think a BX, or similar, is too small...knock yourself out. Nobody can tell you what is, or isn't too small, and it's like you're asking people to prove to you that you need to go larger. Most people don't like to debate/argue, so they aren't going to go out if their way to "prove" anything like this on an Internet forum....they'll just stop responding, as some folks already have.

If you weren't concerned about buying too small of a machine, you wouldn't be asking the question, you'd just go buy one. If it's that important to you, that probably means it's a hint that maybe you should hedge your bets, and go with a slightly larger machine to prevent being disappointed. I suspect that if you do that, you'll still wind up wishing you'd gone even larger, but only time will tell.

Well said ^^^^^

 

[xring100]

Welcome to the forum.

My opener remember the the opposite of over kill is regret!

I have 10 acres All 3 of the dealers I worked with recommend 30 - mid 40s hp tractors.
Story of My 2 neighbors are also on 10 acres one has a JD 2305 similar size to what your looking at
He has regretted that purchase since he bought it he looked at trading up but dealer wanted to give him peanuts. It wouldn't pull the York rake he bought or run a post hole digger in our clay. I driled the last ones for him. These tractors have limited ground clearance and only lift a loader about 6 feet. I had to move all of snow banks that the road commission created for him along the road because he couldn't push them back or stack them any higher and the usps would not deliver mail because they could not reach the box.
the other has a B2400 he his more satisfied but has looked at smaller grand l's mainly due to weight and traction issues.

With that said I have an M8540 85 hp for my 10 acres dealers thought I was crazy but I told them I wanted to be able to offload 3000 lb pallets from a semi truck. I have never had to use my neighbors tractors. But 8 of my neighbors have used me and my tractor 6 of which have 20 - 30 hp tractors.

Conclusion.
I don't think the dealers Are trying to up sell you for just their own benefit but rather they have learned from others and working in your favor trying to save you money. I'm sure they'd love to sell you 2 tractors but the loss you'd take on the first one would be significant.

If I had a nickel for every time I've read about someone who bought a smaller tractor than what they convinced themselves they needed and then purchased bigger. I might not be rich but I'd have a few rolls.

 

[DK35vince]

If I were buying a new machine for 13 acres that I planned on fixing up extensively then a 35 to 40 hp tractor/tlb is what I would get. Get a tractor that will handle six foot implements and a decent fel, that will eliminate needing to move up from a "too small tractor" and lower cost in the long term.

+1
I use a 35 HP tractor with an 8 1/2' backhoe on my 15 acres.
It does fine job, but I certainly wouldn't want any smaller in size/power.
For 13 acres I would be looking at a 35 HP machine.

 

[milkman636]

Here's another vote for looking at the 35 hp tractors. My CT335 was bought because my 53 hp tractor was too big for some of the areas I was using it in. It's basically the same tractor James offered to let you try. I am very pleased with its capabilities. It is maneuverable, nimble, and powerful enough to make short work of that brushy undergrowth, clearing deadfall, and smoothing out the lumpy ground. It is also easy on the fuel and would do a fine job of pulling a wagon load of peaches back to the house.

 

[grm61]

Many folks already have their mind made up on what they are going to buy before they ever post here.
Good luck on your purchase.

You mentioned wanting a grapple..Keep in mind a light weight grapple bucket is about 400 pounds, I think a BX is what? 750lbs lift capacity? minus a 400 pound grapple bucket, that leaves 350 pound capacity.

If you want to play with a grapple, at minimum I would say a 30-35 horse cut, they seem to be 1100 to 1400 pound lift capacity depending on model and manufacturer, minus the bucket or attachment of course.

Your 40 horse tractor that you seem to have a problem with is what I would recommend for your 13 acres, there is a huge jump in capability when you get into the 40 horse frame size, for not that much more money, a Kioti DK 40/45/50 will lift 2764lbs, minus the bucket or attachment.

I have 1134 pounds of ballast in my rear tires, with the loader and backhoe on, its a tick over 8000 pounds, it will shove some stuff around.

Weight and stability equal a safer, more capable tractor IMO.

The ground is to hard here in the summer, and the rocks are to big year round for a small tractor.

I'm not a borrower, I like to be self sufficient, and I don't like to buy things twice.
Even if I decide to move someday I am pretty sure I bought enough tractor to take care of mine and my families needs.

Again good luck on your purchase.
I have no regrets on mine.

 

[Cherokee140]

Remember, nobody here has a dog in the fight....you can buy whatever you want, but I'm not sure why there's an ongoing question of "is this too small?" If you don't think a BX, or similar, is too small...knock yourself out. Nobody can tell you what is, or isn't too small, and it's like you're asking people to prove to you that you need to go larger. Most people don't like to debate/argue, so they aren't going to go out if their way to "prove" anything like this on an Internet forum....they'll just stop responding, as some folks already have.

That is just it...I don't really know if it is too small, you have people so sure that it is making statements like well that will never do this that or the other. But then I see a video on the internet showing the machine doing what I was just told it would not do. I know there are a great many people that could not find their _____ with both hands and a road map on youtube....so that is why I came here.

Everyone that seems to say it will not do the types of jobs I want it to do own a larger machine....those that say it will own the small machines....are they saying it will to justify their machine choice?

You are 100% right I am worried about buying too small of a machine. That is just why I am here.....I am really in the dark here as I really do not have any experience with the small machines.

I keep coming back to the motorcycle comparison.
So many think you have to have a 800cc+ machine to do any kind of highway riding...and that is just flat wrong. You see people telling new riders to go and get that CBR1000RR or they will not be happy....then a week later they sell the thing as it scarred the _______ out of them.
I personally have ridden across one of the flattest most boring states in the union (Kansas sorry) at 80mph on a Yamaha XT225. Colorado to Missouri and not one single problem, I did not blow up the motor, it did not get too hot, I was not blown off the road by a semi truck, I had zero problems passing slower cars at 65mph. But those people are out there that will still tell me I am a flat out fibber, those same people have never been on the highway on a smaller bike.

To tell the truth I really don't care what size or color the machine is as long as I can get it serviced. It also has to be real simple to get the stuff on and off of. That simple on and off is the real reason I started looking at the small machines in the first place, if not for that feature I WOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT ANYTHING. JD has a pretty good grip on me with those 1 series adds and how easy it is to get the things on and off.

I don't want to fight, or argue, I just don't know....but I do know one thing I am going to be just as unhappy with a machine too big and that I can't get the stuff on and off of as I am with a too small machine that the stuff does go on and off of easy, but will not lift but a cup of dirt.

As to things like the grapple, I think that would be handy for moving all the dead wood...wood you can kick with your feet and it will bust, trees as big as your legs, just rotten wood. And moving RR ties, that is all I am going to use the grapple for. I have over a dozen bulb flower beds that need building and I have a million RR ties that are going to need to be moved. The last ones I did was with a 16yr old a tie down strap in the middle of the tie, and a boom on the 8n. It was not the smartest way to do it....then the brush, around where all this dead wood is, just sticks, twigs, wild rose bushes....junk like that. and a square bail from time to time....that is it, I don't think I will be moving phone poles anytime soon.

 

[GManBart]

You are 100% right I am worried about buying too small of a machine. That is just why I am here.....I am really in the dark here as I really do not have any experience with the small machines.

I don't want to fight, or argue, I just don't know....but I do know one thing I am going to be just as unhappy with a machine too big and that I can't get the stuff on and off of as I am with a too small machine that the stuff does go on and off of easy, but will not lift but a cup of dirt.

I can't really talk to mid-mount mowers (never used one), but as far as 3pt implements, and backhoes, there really isn't a major difference in how hard it is to take off/put on something like a 4ft box blade and a 5ft box blade. That's sort of the difference you'd see in going with the smallest machines, and just one size larger.

The easiest solution to that question is to simply pick the biggest model you think would work, find a dealer with one, and let them know your concerns, and then go try putting things on, taking them off, etc....then you'll know.

Getting a machine "too big" is something a lot of people seem to worry about, but often the actual difference in physical size isn't that big....only a few inches here and there. If it will fit in the garage/barn, and doesn't have to squeeze through any small doors (barn stalls), it usually makes no difference.

I don't think the motorcycle analogy works well in most ways, but in one or two areas, it just might. If you had to ride 1000 miles in the next two days, would you prefer to do it on that Yamaha XT, or a Honda Gold Wing? A lot of what people are talking about when suggesting a slightly larger machine comes down to time, and comfort. The smaller machine might eventually get the job done, but it will usually take a lot longer, be harder on the machine, and harder on you. Certainly, there might be a few cases when the smaller machine is better....like really tight landscaping situations, but that's the nature of the beast...everything is a compromise.

What I do know for certain is that you can usually get small jobs done with a bigger machine, and sometimes you can't get bigger jobs done with a small machine. When we were building my barn last year, I had 40 tons of gravel delivered to spread around a few areas, and build approaches/ramps for two of the doors so that my roof truss, and metal siding contractor could get his machine inside the building. We got a bit of rain the day after the gravel was delivered, and then had a cold snap that night, so that the pile of gravel was frozen. I was trying to break into it with my LS (over 7,000lbs with counterweight on it) using the tooth bar on the bucket....it was doing almost nothing. I called my neighbor across the street and he came over with his full size backhoe. He came up the driveway, lowered the bucket and drove right into the pile like it was nothing. He stayed around for half an hour spreading gravel, then had to run off to church. I'd guess 75% of the pile was gone when he left, and it took me 2-3 hours to move the last 25%. If he had stayed, the whole job would have been an hour at most. That's a big difference in size, but an even bigger difference in capability. I can't imagine how long that would have taken with an even smaller machine!

 

[k0ua]

If you enjoyed watching mike hook up a heavy implement without telescoping lower links and stabilizers. Here he describes how to use those more deluxe features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pH9Tmdtsgg

Of course there are other options, to make life easier for hookups, like Carters, Pat's, and Quick Hitch devices to add on to the tractors equipped with fixed lower links if that is what you wind up with.

 

[murphy1244]

If you enjoyed watching mike hook up a heavy implement without telescoping lower links and stabilizers. Here he describes how to use those more deluxe features.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pH9Tmdtsgg

Of course there are other options, to make life easier for hookups, like Carters, Pat's, and Quick Hitch devices to add on to the tractors equipped with fixed lower links if that is what you wind up with.

I would take the QH over the adjustable. IMO. As long as the implements you own are QH.