Snow Equipment Owning/Operating Indulge My Business Idea for a Minute

[timster2]

I have a lot of experience with salt spreaders. Salt will get into everything within several yards of where it is stored. Fumes/vapors from the salt will penetrate and get into places you could never imagine, no direct contact required. Anything parked near the salt will rot. You cannot store salt in whatever you plan to use for spreading more than a few days without unloading and reloading. The salt holds a lot of moisture and will harden into a solid, think of that salt shaker on your table after a few humid days just a lot bigger. If you plan to hose down your tractor after spreading salt you will only spread the problem quicker. The lifespan of your tractor will suffer tremendously plan on half the lifespan you were expecting.

 

[strum456]

I don't disagree with anything that has been said. However, it is a shame that a guy can't go out on his tractor and earn some extra money plowing snow without having to consider a bunch of liability nonsense. My dad has told me stories about how my grandfather would take our Ford 960 15 miles into town after a big storm. He would plow out gas stations, parking lots, and anybody that needed it. No contracts, no nonsense, just snow that needed plowed and people willing to pay to have it done. This was in the 60s. I wouldn't dream of trying that today.

 

[allen6634]

as i read all of the posts , and i must say there is some very wise advice here , it seems that you arn't going to take anyones advice , so i must ask,
why did you post this anyway?

 

[Olympus]

as i read all of the posts , and i must say there is some very wise advice here , it seems that you arn't going to take anyones advice , so i must ask,
why did you post this anyway?

Don't know where you come up with that. How do you know I haven't already called my insurance to get a quote on an umbrella policy? Seems a little presumptuous.

 

[CobyRupert]

as i read all of the posts , and i must say there is some very wise advice here , it seems that you arn't going to take anyones advice , so i must ask, why did you post this anyway?

Maybe to get a pulse on business in America? I think the results are in. Dead. Somebody call it. Stick a fork in it. I was going to say it's been sucked dry by vampire lawyers, but it seems more like everybody has been pussified, and the risk takers are ostracized. Everybody is afraid. Scary, scary scary! Afraid of terrorists, and lawyers, the child abductors, the knock-out game ("better carry a gun, it's scary, scary, scary out there!") Instead of America the land of opportunity, it's a Climate of Fear. Have you checked under your bed lately?!
The OP is a big boy, he knows the risks. But nobody mentions that buying insurance is also a risk, a form of gambling. Example: My 76yr old mother has probably spent $200,000's on various insurance, money thrown away with nothing tangible returned over the years. Of course, no insurance (or self-insuring) is a gamble too.

I'm sure the OP knows about insurance, or should now that he's been beaten over the head about it. As far as taxable income on $1000 or $4000, doesn't his expenses and depreciations offset a alot of this?
One thing he might want to think about is what happens if his tractor is out of service during that big storm?

 

[Olympus]

I don't disagree with anything that has been said. However, it is a shame that a guy can't go out on his tractor and earn some extra money plowing snow without having to consider a bunch of liability nonsense. My dad has told me stories about how my grandfather would take our Ford 960 15 miles into town after a big storm. He would plow out gas stations, parking lots, and anybody that needed it. No contracts, no nonsense, just snow that needed plowed and people willing to pay to have it done. This was in the 60s. I wouldn't dream of trying that today.

Heck, I mowed yards every summer during college. No insurance policy, no CPA doing my taxes, no contracts, just a guy with a mower going door to door, and that was only about 7 years ago. Made enough money to pay for most of my college, never had anyone sue me, and had a great time. I didn't have to have a business plan drafted either. I guess it's a good thing I didn't ask for advice on a forum back then or I would be up to my eyes on student loan debt right now from being scared away.

I appreciate all the advice, particularly the technical advice. I'm thoroughly scared away from using any kind of salt or brine with a brand new tractor. Definitely good information to know up front.

 

[skyhook]

I say, give it a shot,
Just make sure, (if) you have to sign something, it states that your NOT responsible
for any type of damage.
It would be better if there were "no" contract at all.
Just an invoice at the end of the season.
I do 14 cottages (homes), I now charge a flat rate, since I also live here and am retired,
enjoy doing it, "no contract" just a bill to justify expenses to the comity.
We have a hill and a few curves that have to be salted etc,
We have a couple of storage bins, salt/stonedust that's spread manually, probably not
a good idea in your case,lol,,
but when it gets too bad on the ice dept., I hire out for the salt truck,
and charge extra for these times. (the most was 4 times that was contracted out for salt),
it doesn't happen that often.
Something you could also consider.
Good luck, and yes, you would or should definitely have a cab, heated.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I say, give it a shot,
Just make sure, (if) you have to sign something, it states that your NOT responsible
for any type of damage.
It would be better if there were "no" contract at all.
Just an invoice at the end of the season.
I do 14 cottages (homes), I now charge a flat rate, since I also live here and am retired,
enjoy doing it, "no contract" just a bill to justify expenses to the comity.
We have a hill and a few curves that have to be salted etc,
We have a couple of storage bins, salt/stonedust that's spread manually, probably not
a good idea in your case,lol,,
but when it gets too bad on the ice dept., I hire out for the salt truck,
and charge extra for these times. (the most was 4 times that was contracted out for salt),
it doesn't happen that often.
Something you could also consider.
Good luck, and yes, you would or should definitely have a cab, heated.

Now that, contracting out the salting, makes a bit more sense and would for sure be a better option than storing, loading spreading salt with your tractor. Bad enough to just drive over a salted area. With that option, it may make this job a profitable option IF the HOA agrees to the cost. You still need to look at the fee structure and the time involved to see if it is a money maker for the amount of investment required.

 

[namesray]

Maybe to get a pulse on business in America? I think the results are in. Dead. Somebody call it. Stick a fork in it. I was going to say it's been sucked dry by vampire lawyers, but it seems more like everybody has been pussified, and the risk takers are ostracized. Everybody is afraid. Scary, scary scary! Afraid of terrorists, and lawyers, the child abductors, the knock-out game ("better carry a gun, it's scary, scary, scary out there!") Instead of America the land of opportunity, it's a Climate of Fear. Have you checked under your bed lately?!
The OP is a big boy, he knows the risks. But nobody mentions that buying insurance is also a risk, a form of gambling. Example: My 76yr old mother has probably spent $200,000's on various insurance, money thrown away with nothing tangible returned over the years. Of course, no insurance (or self-insuring) is a gamble too.

I'm sure the OP knows about insurance, or should now that he's been beaten over the head about it. As far as taxable income on $1000 or $4000, doesn't his expenses and depreciations offset a alot of this?
One thing he might want to think about is what happens if his tractor is out of service during that big storm?

very true. I get so sick of the commercials on tv about "call so and so law firm if you have been injured due to the neglect of a business or property owner" some lawyers/lawfirms and sue happy people are out of control and it definetly has hurt small business America.

to the op, I was in a similar position you are in now about 8 years ago when I started my small side business (firewood and mowing) instead of starting the business to justify getting a piece of equipment, I took equipment I already needed for my own tasks on the farm so to say and started putting them to work to make money doing firewood and mowing lawns and bush hogging. I started out just doing it, but slowly obtained the general structure of a "business" over the years. I started claiming the income, then came the commercial equipment inland marine insurance policy, then a general liability policy, then the commercial auto policy for my 2 trucks and trailer and so on. still with all that, I am probably not fully "legally" equipped to do what I do. even if I was, there would still be somebody that could get through all the insurances/licences and put me out of business. there always will be crooked/greedy people in this world. I guess the point I am trying to make is, you had better REALLY want to do what you are proposing because I have found through out the years that there will be ALWAYS something to come along and try to knock you down, and if you don't have that "drive" to succeed you will be out. and also take what you "think" you will profit and cut it in about half, because that is about what it comes out to.

I plow snow, both driveways with my tractor and for the state highway dept. in large plow trucks. some things to think about. will the "smallest cab tractor" you propose be big enough to turn a profit? I would stay far away from the salt. and have a plan both for "icy" events/times and if your tractor goes down. I personally get a liability ins. policy. looking back for obstacles/traffic/people backing up all the time to push ahead again for hours will wear your aleartness down and that is when accidents will happen eventually. plowing snow for people, I have hit buried steps, tore into lawns, hit headwalls on driveway pipes, knocked a mailbox over, and probably a few other things. one time my hydrostat pedal stuck and I almost went through a garage door. surprised me and just got stopped in time. and NO I am not a slam and bang operator. I am a slow and cautious operator, so it can happen to anyone. I wish you luck with your endeavor.

 

[jel1988]

Your insurance will cost more than your fuel!!! You'll have to plow and salt a couple of times just to break even, not even considering your wages or a profit. If there's no profit there's no reason to accept the risk of business.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I refuse to let my stuff near salt or sheit! When our JD 6200 was new, my Dad rented it to the farmer that works our place organically. My Dad always has to try and figure out a way to recover his outlay. Anyway, I was the poor SOB that had to clean the tractor when it came back. It was not worth the little money made, IMO!

 

[sparc]

I guess I could have been more clear. This would not really be an actual business. I would not be getting any kind of insurance. Any damage to my equipment would be my own loss. The subdivision would not hold me liable for any to the roads either.

This would simply be a way to offset the cost of ownership until the loan was paid off.

The subdivisions' lawyer would probably stop them from hiring you, because if YOU don't have insurance THEY will be on the hook 100%. They would get drug into a suit anyway if you damaged something or injured someone because you are working for them, but if you don't have insurance it's all on them.

Protect yourself, make it a legit business and charge accordingly. You can then write off/depreciate that new cab tractor, one that is capable of doing the job efficiently, as a business expense.

 

[lostcreekranch]

Your plan could get sunk as a result of counting on snow. Weather is fickle at times?

 

[Olympus]

The subdivisions' lawyer would probably stop them from hiring you, because if YOU don't have insurance THEY will be on the hook 100%. They would get drug into a suit anyway if you damaged something or injured someone because you are working for them, but if you don't have insurance it's all on them.

Protect yourself, make it a legit business and charge accordingly. You can then write off/depreciate that new cab tractor, one that is capable of doing the job efficiently, as a business expense.

Subdivision does not have a lawyer.

 

[JimRB]

Don't forget to add the price of a plow. A loader bucket is not too efficient. Crosby Equipment Company

 

[Pixguy]

I am the president of a commercial condo assn. and although we don't have an attorney, we have and will unfortunately need one on occasion.
I hire the snow removal and sanders and require a copy of their commercial insurance policy.
Could we hire someone who wanted to do the snow removal on side a lot cheaper? Yup. Would we? Nope.

Either way, I wish you luck and if they allow you give it a shot, I hope it works out to all involved.

 

[forgeblast]

Just to beat the insurance drum again. I sell spoons at craft fairs. I have a 1million dollar policy in-case my tent fly's off and does damage, its about 350 a year for it. I am set up as a sole proprietor, if you are going to do this you may want to form a llc to protect your assets. You will also need to register with the state and pay quarterly sales tax on the money you made. I would also keep a records of everything and receipts.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Subdivision does not have a lawyer.

Are you that naive or just plain stupid? Everyone has a lawyer, just look in the yellow pages or watch TV for one to advertise. Just because someone doesn't have a lawyer on retainer doesn't mean that they cant get one at any time when needed. If you insist on opening a business without any liability insurance or forming a LLC corporation to protect any assets that you may have, then be ready to loose everything that you own now and in the future to a lawsuit that could happen at any time, perhaps from something that is not your fault but just the legal fees fighting a frivolous lawsuit can bankrupt most individuals. Anytime you are doing work on a roadway, you are open to having an accident with road traffic, be it automobile, ATV, Snowmobile or even a pedestrian that you may run down. Maybe you don't have any fixed obstacles to deal with but there is always a possibility of a mobile vehicle/person colliding with you.

You have been advised very well as to how to protect yourself , so now go out an do what you already planned to do without any advice so you can save the $300-400 in insurance cost per year. Perhaps luck will be on your side for a while, but it always runs out eventually.

 

[jel1988]

My insurance agent charges a $1000 minimum for this type of policy, and I checked out another agent just to make sure.

 

[kevin37b]

Just wait till that car sneeks behind you when you decide to throw it in reverse .