Starting your tractor in the winter.

[DarkBlack]

It may be and old explanation, but it is 100% proven. UPS trucks shut down more for fuel savings, not as much to reduce wear. Not every revolution results in equal wear.

What I meant is that the reason you don't no load idle a cold diesel is from wear factors related to incomplete combustion, not from the wear of metal to metal. Also as others have stated you are wasting expensive fuel, and total cost of ownership includes the fuel. UPS knows this.

 

[rsallen]

Golly gee Tom,
Now that you've saved the crankshaft and rods what are we going to do about the rest of the engine?
You could pre-oil everything you want before start up, you could pre-heat the engine even, do anything you want, you'd still only add some x amount of hours/miles to the mechanical package.

And no has said all wear was caused equally.

 

[TomSeller]

Golly gee Tom,
Now that you've saved the crankshaft and rods what are we going to do about the rest of the engine?
You could pre-oil everything you want before start up, you could pre-heat the engine even, do anything you want, you'd still only add some x amount of hours/miles to the mechanical package.

And no has said all wear was caused equally.

Golly gee rsallen,
When I put "Haha" at the end it means I am not serious.

 

[buickanddeere]

If wear is not related to rpms or to the number of turns (what in the world does 'the number of turns' mean?) then engines would last for ever.

Let's get this straight, every single revolution of an engine causes wear. I don't care how many different ways you want to cut it or how the revolutions are made whether by hand, starter, at idle or under load....you are going to have some wear on the engine.

Wear not related to the number of revolutions is one of the most inane things I ever heard.

Wear IS NOT directly proportional to rpms .
An engine at rated rpms of 1800rpm making 80HP but rated at 100HP. That 1800rpm engine will outlast the otherwise identical engine operating at 1440rpm both engines making 80HP.
The higher torque loads,higher combustion pressure/stress and higher heat will wear out the 1440rpm engine first.

 

[buickanddeere]

I think what he is saying is that every revolution of the engine does not cause the same amount of wear as every other revolution. First turn of the engine after being dry for a month will cause more wear than any single revolution in the middle of a day's work. I *think* that's what he meant.

That too

 

[buickanddeere]

I was going to reply to him. Thanks for saving me the time

Don't twist the words. I said wear is not a linear relationship to rpms and number of turns. Depends on the amount of engine load and temperature to name just a few factors.
Engine life is not a finite number like grains of sand in an hourglass.

 

[tcreeley]

I go by the temperature gauge in the winter when it is below 20- I like to see the needle creep up before I go. Below 10 I always give it some time. I warm up at about 1200-1400 rpm. Too fast- just pushing a cold engine and that makes no sense (no computer controlling things like on my Chevy). I think it warms up faster at a lower rpm than a high- engine sounds better too. And all this even though it stays plugged in.

 

[grm61]

It may be and old explanation, but it is 100% proven. UPS trucks shut down more for fuel savings, not as much to reduce wear. Not every revolution results in equal wear.

The drivers are required to shut them down and lock the doors when not in the truck..safety and security, I'm sure there is some fuel savings there as well.

 

[TomSeller]

The drivers are required to shut them down and lock the doors when not in the truck..safety and security, I'm sure there is some fuel savings there as well.

Right, forgot about that.

 

[dave1949]

The drivers are required to shut them down and lock the doors when not in the truck..safety and security, I'm sure there is some fuel savings there as well.

Our UPS driver shuts off the engine anytime he leaves the driver's seat. We are not much of a security threat in our driveway , so I'm guessing it is more about safety. I don't know how much fuel is being saved in the 15 seconds it takes him to scan and hand our package out the door. I always go out to the truck if I'm home.

 

[sixdogs]

Our UPS driver shuts off the engine anytime he leaves the driver's seat. We are not much of a security threat in our driveway , so I'm guessing it is more about safety. I don't know how much fuel is being saved in the 15 seconds it takes him to scan and hand our package out the door. I always go out to the truck if I'm home.

UPS is really on top of things. Someone told me their routes and directions are computer directed each day with all stops programmed and as many right turns only as possible.

 

[dave1949]

UPS is really on top of things. Someone told me their routes and directions are computer directed each day with all stops programmed and as many right turns only as possible.

I've heard it's a fast-paced job to keep up. It may not be so bad for a rural area, but in the city I bet it's not exactly fun.

 

[DarkBlack]

Wear IS NOT directly proportional to rpms .


An engine at rated rpms of 1800rpm making 80HP but rated at 100HP. That 1800rpm engine will outlast the otherwise identical engine operating at 1440rpm both engines making 80HP.
The higher torque loads,higher combustion pressure/stress and higher heat will wear out the 1440rpm engine first.

I don't think you really understand engines.
To your first sentence:
Camshaft bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valve springs, valves, valve seats, valve guides, timing gears, timing chains, alternator bearings, water pump bearings, water pump seals, accessory belts, etc.. are a few examples of engine wear parts that wear faster at higher rpm.

Your second "example" is bogus. A 100 HP tractor engine rated 80HP@ 1,800rpm's will not be able to make 80 HP@1,440 rpm's, so at the lower rpm it can't do as much work.
No way-no how, can someone pre-predict a higher sped engine will outlast a slower run one-For sure not you.
Also in this post you are saying lower rpm's creates more heat, but earlier you said higher rpm's warmed up the engine better.
You should start driving all your vehicles in 1st or 2nd gear to keep the rpm's up, and come back and let us know how that works out for you in the longevity department:laughing:

 

[rsallen]

Congrats buick&deere
You've just invent the first step toward perpetual motion.

 

[DarkBlack]

He's pretty funny with his homebrew theories.

 

[buickanddeere]

I don't think you really understand engines.
To your first sentence:
Camshaft bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valve springs, valves, valve seats, valve guides, timing gears, timing chains, alternator bearings, water pump bearings, water pump seals, accessory belts, etc.. are a few examples of engine wear parts that wear faster at higher rpm.

Your second "example" is bogus. A 100 HP tractor engine rated 80HP@ 1,800rpm's will not be able to make 80 HP@1,440 rpm's, so at the lower rpm it can't do as much work.
No way-no how, can someone pre-predict a higher sped engine will outlast a slower run one-For sure not you.
Also in this post you are saying lower rpm's creates more heat, but earlier you said higher rpm's warmed up the engine better.
You should start driving all your vehicles in 1st or 2nd gear to keep the rpm's up, and come back and let us know how that works out for you in the longevity department:laughing:

100HP rated engine working at 80HP at 1800rpm vs the same engine making 80HP at 1440rpm. Which will wear out sooner? The 1440 rpm engine.
Go back and re-read the sentence.
The higher rpms at idle do produce more warm up heat vs, low rpm warm up at idle. Can't you tell the difference? You are mixing two different operating circumstances. Warmup at idle is one circumstance. Operating under load is the other.
The 100HP rated engine making 80HP at 1800rpm will be operating cooler, with lower pressures and lower torque loads. Than the same 100HP rated engine operating at full injector pump delivery making 80HP at 1440 rpm.

 

[buickanddeere]

I don't think you really understand engines.
To your first sentence:
Camshaft bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valve springs, valves, valve seats, valve guides, timing gears, timing chains, alternator bearings, water pump bearings, water pump seals, accessory belts, etc.. are a few examples of engine wear parts that wear faster at higher rpm.

Your second "example" is bogus. A 100 HP tractor engine rated 80HP@ 1,800rpm's will not be able to make 80 HP@1,440 rpm's, so at the lower rpm it can't do as much work.
No way-no how, can someone pre-predict a higher sped engine will outlast a slower run one-For sure not you.
Also in this post you are saying lower rpm's creates more heat, but earlier you said higher rpm's warmed up the engine better.
You should start driving all your vehicles in 1st or 2nd gear to keep the rpm's up, and come back and let us know how that works out for you in the longevity department:laughing:

Typically the Camshaft bearings, lifters, pushrods, rockers, valve springs, valves, valve seats, valve guides, timing gears, timing chains, are not the failure items that necessitate an engine rebuild. Alternators, belts and water pumps are external low cost external components. In fact the smoother running 1800rpm 100HP rated engine making 80HP has less intense power pulses and reduces some types of accessory wear.
Main and rod bearings once the engine obtains oil flow and pressure after startup. The journals ride on an oil wedge and don't touch the bearings. Low oil level , prolonged braking, extreme side hills and startup is what determines crank wear.
That leaves mostly bore/piston/ring wear as the reason for overhauls. Again operating with coolant at 180+F and clean intake air are two major influences. The 3rd being combustion chamber pressure and lube dilution/wash down due to over fueling. lube washdown/dilution occurs at startup. Also if over fueled at max fuel delivery when loaded to lugging in continuous service.

 

[Egon]

100HP rated engine working at 80HP at 1800rpm vs the same engine making 80HP at 1440rpm. Which will wear out sooner? The 1440 rpm engine.
Go back and re-read the sentence.
The higher rpms at idle do produce more warm up heat vs, low rpm warm up at idle. Can't you tell the difference? You are mixing two different operating circumstances. Warmup at idle is one circumstance. Operating under load is the other.
The 100HP rated engine making 80HP at 1800rpm will be operating cooler, with lower pressures and lower torque loads. Than the same 100HP rated engine operating at full injector pump delivery making 80HP at 1440 rpm.

Back in the winter oilfield those folks with diesels have high idles installed so they don't freeze when the truck is sitting.:thumbsup:

 

[phastmac]

I am curious, why should you not let the tractor slow idle? This is the first time I have heard this, any information is appreciated.

 

[patrick_g]

I saw this comment on another website and was wondering if it is true with all tractors.

Let it Idle
In cold weather, after your tractor has started, let it stand and run for a good 20 minutes. Adjust the idle up to around 1500-1700 RPM and just let it sit. The reason we do this is so that the heat of the engine dissapates into the transmission, transfer case and gear drives of the tractor. If we went to work right away, the gear oil is so thick that the hydraulics will not work and shifting gears is problematic. A common service task is to repair a shifter fork during a cold weather season the gear oil is so cold and thick that when the operator grabs the stick to put the tractor into gear, the shifter fork breaks off inside the transmission costly. Let the tractor warm up for a period of at least 20 minutes when in cold weather.

Yes but... What about hydrostats? First (applicable to all diesel tracltors), when you turn the key on the glow plug light comes on indicating the glow plugs are heating. When the light goes off quickly turn off the key and then immediately back on to give the glow plugs another cycle. This will let the tractor (in my case) start with much less cranking. Then with the engine running smoothly (well under a minute) slowly drive the tractor. No high speed, no hard work (not even up a steep hill) and only use the hydraulics (3PH or FEL or...) slowly and sparingly. As the tractor warms up the hydraulics will respond much more smoothly and you may begin normal operation.

YMMY It works for me. The coldest overnight temp prior to my using this procedure has been 0 degrees F. The tractor was parked for days in the open. No batt charger, no batt heater, no plug in of anything. I gave it 2-3 cycles of glow plug heating and it started up and ran roughly till it warmed a bit. It didn't crank real fast due to cold battery but it started nicely. I attribute easier starting to the multiple glow plug cycles. Not needed in warm weather. Not needed in cool temps but in really cold temps, it helps.

Light work after the engine is running smoothly does not cause problems. On the contrary the light work helps the tractor to warm up faster. Make haste slowly. Don't rush into HD work with a cold engine and hydraulics. A battery maintainer (float charger or better yet a charger desulfator preferably with temperature compensation) will keep the battery fully charged and make starting easier as well as extending the battery life. Do not use a high current charger for extended periods of time and do check the fluid level of batts with caps to access the fluid.

Happy winter tractoring, stay warm. I do, in T-shirt and jeans as my Kubhota has a killer heater in the cab.

Patrick