What's your technique for removing trees/brush with your grapple? Here's mine....

[Piston]

I had a member ask me about how I use my grapple for removing trees and grubbing brush. I figured rather than keep it a private conversation, I'd start a thread on it so other's could benefit as well. Not only that, but I'd like to be sure that what I tell him, is considered safe and effective among other grapple users as well. In addition, I'm always open to learning new ways of operation!


(Note: If you press the "ctrl" key and click the picture at the same time, it will open the image in a new tab, so you don't have to keep pressing the "back" button)
When I want to push trees over using the tractor/grapple, this is how I do it:

Drive up to the tree slowly, with the grapple arms fully opened and the FEL up in the air. I don't usually have the FEL all the way up however, it's probably around 75%-90% raised most of the time, and the grapple is "level" with the plane of the ground. When I raise my loader too high, it will sometimes lift my front end off the ground, and I find I get more traction when it is not full raised.


My first step is to "test" the tree. I nudge the grapple up against it and give it a little push, if it moves pretty easy then I should be able to push it right over. If it seems very "stable" and barely moves, I'll have to loosen up the ground around it a little bit.



This tree didn't need any digging around the base, so I just started pushing. It was in fairly loose soil and has a very small root structure. This is pretty common when your in a very thick stand of trees-there are so many trees so close together, that even in very windy conditions, the trees don't need a very large root structure to keep them from blowing over, since all the trees together tend to 'break up the wind' and help support each other. If your dealing with a single tree that has been growing on it's own for a while, with not many trees around it, you'll have a much larger root system to deal with, and would have to loosen up the soil around it by digging. You can actually dig very well with a grapple.



You can see as the tree is going over, the root ball is coming up. If your dealing with a tree with a good sized root system, and your not aware of what's happening, this root ball can come up pretty quickly as the tree goes down, with plenty of force to lift the front end of the tractor right off the ground, and very possibly roll you over! -This is something to be VERY mindful of. :thumbsup:
Anytime the tree starts to fall on it's own, I back up right away, and let it fall as far as it will (sometimes all the way, sometimes not.) I want to minimize any chances of the root ball getting caught under the front of my tractor!




This tree didn't fall all the way to the ground, it got caught up in other branches as it was going over. This would be a good time to mention how important it is to take some time before pushing the tree over, and take note of any branches that are in the way, that may possibly come crashing down on (or anywhere close to) you. As we all know, they're called "widow makers" for a reason!
Another note about falling objects, be very careful of dead trees. I don't push over dead trees with my tractor, but if you do, be aware that there is no way to predict what's going to happen. There is a very good chance that the tree will snap, and come crashing down on you. The root structure of trees stay much stronger, much longer, than the rest of the tree itself after it is dead. Something has to go, and it's not usually the roots.






This is obviously an "after" shot, but what I did after the tree was caught in the other branches, was back up away from it, lower the front end loader and drive towards the root ball, then insert the lower tines of the grapple underneath the rootball, and lift the FEL while slowly creeping forward. This effectively "pushes" the rootball up, and out of the ground, with the added advantage of the tree's weight pulling it the rest of the way to the ground.
Then drive forward a little ways until the rootball is clear of the ground (obviously be careful of where your front tires are, you don't want one of them falling into the huge hole you just made!)


If I did need to dig around the base to loosen the roots, I would have dug the backside of the tree first (let's call the front of the tree, the direction we want it to fall, so the rear would be between the tractor and the tree) then just angle the tines into the ground, push the FEL down, curl and lift to break up the soil and roots. At this point you can try again, if it still doesn't go, dig up the left side of the tree, then the right (I always do either both sides, or none), then the only solid ground holding the tree is in the front of the tree, acting as a hinge. Never dig up all sides of the tree. Some just need the chainsaw!
You don't necessarily need to dig up the roots either, sometimes just loosening up the soil is enough to let the roots break free. Obviously, trees with large root systems are more difficult to get down. Always remember the limits of your machine.





Here are some more pics using the same method...


Getting the tree to go over, notice the tractor is positioned so the rootball won't get caught up underneath it if the tree decides to drop to the ground too fast.



Inserting the grapple under the rootball (notice the grapple arms themselves are open and not doing anything, just the lower part of the grapple is under the root ball). Then lift and push.



And here we have the desired results.



This tree was too big/strong for the tractor to push the rootball all the way out with the tree still attached, so we cut it off and dealt with the stump separately. (actually, the tree wasn't too big, the tractor was too small:laughing



Then pick it up....



....and carry it to the pile.




Here are some more pics of the same process on some different trees....

















Gotta love how useful the grapple is for carrying stumps to the stump pile!


Keep in mind, anytime you push trees over there is going to be some risk of something going "wrong." Some people recommend never pushing trees over with a tractor that doesn't have FOPS (falling object protection system.) ....and that is certainly not bad advice!

To add to that, some will recommend NEVER to push trees over with the tractor. It's not a bad point, that's what chainsaws are made for. :thumbsup:


I hope this post benefits someone and starts a chain reaction for other's to post their methods. I'm always willing to learn new ways of doing things. :thumbsup:

 

[stuckmotor]

Now, I want 4wd and a grapple.

 

[wjb-49]

Piston,

I can hardly wait to receive my new grapple, have it installed and begin using your tree felling technique. Look out, black locust, here I come!

 

[Grandad4]

Those are some great pictures, Piston. You definitely have a technique for taking down trees at your place. You'll remember we shared information back when you were tractor shopping, and I have since read many of your discussions about needing a larger tractor, occasionally with a tinge of regret for maybe having steered you to the wrong tractor. Well your pictures tell a story and ease my mind considerably. You are doing some serious work there pushing over those trees, and I can well see how larger equipment would make your technique more effective. I'm thinking a grapple-equipped M59 with the HST would be about perfect for the job, just in case you end up with the winning Powerball entry.

Pictures can be deceiving, but it looks like the majority of what you're removing are living, healthy trees that don't seem to present a high probability of dropping widow-maker branches. That would be critical in adopting your push-down tree removal technique. I have pushed over trees like that, but for the most part that approach is not workable at my place, which has great numbers of still-standing dead pines, leaners, and almost-dead pines, many of which are 75 ft. tall with a 12" trunk. Instead, we pull these with a logging winch tied off high enough for leverage so we don't need to be directly under the tree. With larger trees, I'll reluctantly break out the chainsaw and notch the tree enough that the winch can drop it. We generally don't need to remove the stumps, but use the backhoe when that is necessary.

Just wanted to say good work, good write-up and good photos. Thanks for sharing!

 

[GregbkH]

Well done! I couldn't said it better. I do it exactly like you but I also use my backhoe to pop roots and push trees with.

Big maple in a food plot I was clearing last year. This one was good size, about 85' tall and 20" diameter. It was almost too much for my tractor.



Food plot this year.

 

[Midniteoyl]

Cool..


BTW - Center Button push (mouse wheel) with also open in a new tab

 

[94BULLITT]

Were those all pines you were pushing over Piston?

 

[Piston]

Those are some great pictures, Piston. You definitely have a technique for taking down trees at your place. You'll remember we shared information back when you were tractor shopping, and I have since read many of your discussions about needing a larger tractor, occasionally with a tinge of regret for maybe having steered you to the wrong tractor. Well your pictures tell a story and ease my mind considerably. You are doing some serious work there pushing over those trees, and I can well see how larger equipment would make your technique more effective. I'm thinking a grapple-equipped M59 with the HST would be about perfect for the job, just in case you end up with the winning Powerball entry.

Pictures can be deceiving, but it looks like the majority of what you're removing are living, healthy trees that don't seem to present a high probability of dropping widow-maker branches. That would be critical in adopting your push-down tree removal technique. I have pushed over trees like that, but for the most part that approach is not workable at my place, which has great numbers of still-standing dead pines, leaners, and almost-dead pines, many of which are 75 ft. tall with a 12" trunk. Instead, we pull these with a logging winch tied off high enough for leverage so we don't need to be directly under the tree. With larger trees, I'll reluctantly break out the chainsaw and notch the tree enough that the winch can drop it. We generally don't need to remove the stumps, but use the backhoe when that is necessary.

Just wanted to say good work, good write-up and good photos. Thanks for sharing!

Grandad,
It's actually quite the opposite, I would have ended up with a B series size tractor if I hadn't gotten some encouragement from you. You may have seen a couple posts I've made recently (can't remember what thread:laughing about going with a larger tractor than I "thought" I needed. I was originally thinking about something like a B series and your encouragement and advice, as well as great experience with the L4610, is what convinced me to go that route, so in essence, I DID get larger than I needed at the time....However, after getting a lot of experience and doing a lot of work (and learning) on my 4610, I realized I can use something larger. It would have been a mistake for me to buy a bigger utility size tractor for my first tractor, I think that's just the naturaly progression of things. In fact, every time I see that you posted in a thread I always say to myself "I gotta check that out, that guy always seems to have great advice." :thumbsup:

Greg,
That is a HUGE tree for that tractor and grapple, I'm sure you worked at it for a while! Nice work and awesome picture! I like the deer plot photo :thumbsup:

BTW - Center Button push (mouse wheel) with also open in a new tab

M,
That is awesome! Thanks for pointing it out, I KNEW I'd learn something from this thread! :laughing:

Were those all pines you were pushing over Piston?

Bullit,
For the most part they were pines, but also a lot of smaller oak's and other hardwoods. Very few large hardwoods (nothing like Greg's photo-I don't have that nice of trees!)
Also, I tend to stay away from pushing over the larger trees, and prefer to cut them down. For one, I really enjoy the art of the chainsaw, but for another, I don't like the huge hole that the stump leaves, I tend to make more of a mess when I remove the stumps than leave them. I also think about erosion since I'm on a small hillside. I used to take out all the stumps because I don't want them sticking up, or even flush with the ground, but since getting my stumpgrinder I just come back later and grind the big ones down. I still take out any trees that have a small root system though, it's much faster and more fun. :thumbsup:

how did you check that there weren't any livestock like birds with babies in the trees or did you not think about it at the time? kinda sad if you think about it afterward isn't it. unless you check but you would need a tall later to get to 80 ft high

I use a quadracopter with live video feed to check for any "livestock."

By the way, Noodles and Red Bull, are you guys aware that your not private messaging each other? Whenever you post in these threads, it's going to be seen by everyone, not just between you two. It's fine that your posting and I don't care but I just want to make sure that when you talk about your games your posting in a public forum for everyone to read. :thumbsup:

 

[Piston]

I'm thinking a grapple-equipped M59 with the HST would be about perfect for the job, just in case you end up with the winning Powerball entry.

It would probably take the powerball, but if they came out with an M59 with a bit more PTO power and a factory cab, I'd have a hard time turning away from it :laughing:

Actually, one of the main reason's I want to upgrade my tractor is because I want a cab, and now that my woods are cleared out pretty decent, I think I could get by with one. I figure if I'm going to spend all that extra money on a tractor with a cab, I may as well go up a size. I'm very interested to see if they start offering something like the M59 with factory cab.

 

[dondc]

Great job Piston with the write up and pictures. I am using a simialr tactic with my L35 TLB with a tooth bar on the bucket to clear about 3 acres of mostly poplar and alder trees. I sure would like a grapple tho as it would be much easier moving the trees to the pile. Good advice to anyone trying to do this type of clearing for the first time. Thanks for the post.

 

[94BULLITT]

I had to try pushing some trees out since Piston showed us some pics of him doing it. I tried a few oaks this evening. It took some work since I could not go all the way around the tree with the grapple.

Here is what I started with





I dug around the trees as much as I could with the grapple to try to loosen them up. All the trees were alive.

A little technique I picked upon at the end was to use a tooth to push against the tree so the grapple does not slide up the trees.

After that I pushed up high on them.



And of dug around them more with the grapple.

I found that since the trees were not dead they were very flexible and if I pushed real high on the they would bend a lot. It helped to loosen them up. I ended up getting them all out by pushing lower on them, like 3'-4' high.

Here is pic of the one going over.


2 of the trees came completely out and 2 of them the stump busted so I have some clean up for tomorrow.

I sawed the one off after it was pretty much over. I had the whole tree in the grapple, it was not a real big tree.







Here is a root ball from one of the trees



I have to split and stack the wood, load the brush and then I will get those last pieces of the stumps out. It got dark so I did not get any pictures of what it looks like now.
I need a better ballast than my blade. I want to make a counterweight, it would help a lot.

 

[Piston]

Roger,
I"m glad you were inspired That's great you posted the pics, let us know how you make out today after cleaning up a bit.

Also, I'm glad you (and Don) mentioned the teeth. I meant to say something about that in my original post. I've pushed a lot of trees over with my full sized loader/backhoe as well, using the loader bucket with NO teeth on it, I've had the bucket slip/shift on me many times, and I notice that using the teeth on the grapple helps immensely with keeping a solid, fixed 'grip' vs having the smooth bucket slide around. Not that it doesn't work well with the bucket itself, but it's just not as "grippy". (that's a technical term)

 

[stuckmotor]

I spent part of yesterday trying to straighten my loader bucker. It looks like the previous owner tried to push over a tree and the tree pushed back. Once I get the dent in the top straight, I'll work on the smile in the bottom.
Stuck

 

[94BULLITT]

Roger,
I"m glad you were inspired That's great you posted the pics, let us know how you make out today after cleaning up a bit.

Also, I'm glad you (and Don) mentioned the teeth. I meant to say something about that in my original post. I've pushed a lot of trees over with my full sized loader/backhoe as well, using the loader bucket with NO teeth on it, I've had the bucket slip/shift on me many times, and I notice that using the teeth on the grapple helps immensely with keeping a solid, fixed 'grip' vs having the smooth bucket slide around. Not that it doesn't work well with the bucket itself, but it's just not as "grippy". (that's a technical term)

I forgot to say earlier but you did a nice job with the pictures/ write up. I wish more people would interact on these threads. I am glad you started this thread. It got me to thinking about these trees and made me wonder if I could get them out.

I got 1 full skid of wood and one partial. I have a about a wheel barrow load that needs to be put on the skid.



Here are some better pictures of the stumps.








The 4th stump just kept breaking off. I think it will be okay. I hooked onto the one stump with a chain and pulled it out. I had enough traction that the front wheels came off the ground

I was able to clean all the brush up in 2 loads with the grapple. I got the area roughly graded, it is nice and muddy.

 

[Piston]

I wish more people would interact on these threads. I am glad you started this thread. It got me to thinking about these trees and made me wonder if I could get them out.

Thanks for the comments. I hope more people post some pics and experience like you did.:thumbsup: It's always nice to see the other ways people do things, and get ideas from. You can also learn a lot of what NOT to do from some people's experience as well. I used to never post about things I did, I would just read about every one else but then realized how much I enjoy reading about these types of things. I figured I'd get involved and if people didn't want to read or look at my pics, they didn't have to. :laughing:

The 4th stump just kept breaking off. I think it will be okay. I hooked onto the one stump with a chain and pulled it out. I had enough traction that the front wheels came off the ground

I was able to clean all the brush up in 2 loads with the grapple. I got the area roughly graded, it is nice and muddy.

It's funny how sometimes the smallest stumps that seem so easy to get out, end up fighting with you the most! I've had a couple trees that were only 6" or so in diameter, but started off as shoots from a formerly cut tree, and already had a huge root system established, it took me so long to dig around that stump, I ended up cutting it flush with the ground and dumping more dirt on top of it. :laughing: it's still there, that was before I got my stumpgrinder, I might go back and find it just to "win" that fight :laughing:

I like the palletized firewood idea. That makes it nice and easy to move around, and handle it so many less times :thumbsup:


Speaking of rough grading the area, do you use your grapple for that? A lot of times I use the grapple for grading, not fine grading or anything, but for smoothing out areas that I just tore up, even when I have the box blade on the back. It works surprisingly well. I level the bottom tines with the ground, and drive foward and backward with it. I graded this entire area with nothing more than my grapple...

 

[Xfaxman]

............

I got 1 full skid of wood and one partial. I have a about a wheel barrow load that needs to be put on the skid.

I was able to clean all the brush up in 2 loads with the grapple. I got the area roughly graded, it is nice and muddy.

Speaking of giving people ideas, you can borrow my wheel-less barrow to move the rest of the wood!

 

[94BULLITT]

Thanks for the comments. I hope more people post some pics and experience like you did.:thumbsup: It's always nice to see the other ways people do things, and get ideas from. You can also learn a lot of what NOT to do from some people's experience as well. I used to never post about things I did, I would just read about every one else but then realized how much I enjoy reading about these types of things. I figured I'd get involved and if people didn't want to read or look at my pics, they didn't have to. :laughing:

Your right you can learn a lot from other peoples experiences. I wish more people would comment. Sometimes is discouraging when you start a thread.

It's funny how sometimes the smallest stumps that seem so easy to get out, end up fighting with you the most! I've had a couple trees that were only 6" or so in diameter, but started off as shoots from a formerly cut tree, and already had a huge root system established, it took me so long to dig around that stump, I ended up cutting it flush with the ground and dumping more dirt on top of it. :laughing: it's still there, that was before I got my stumpgrinder, I might go back and find it just to "win" that fight :laughing:

It does not take much of a tree to put a fight.

I like the palletized firewood idea. That makes it nice and easy to move around, and handle it so many less times :thumbsup:

Thanks. Where ever I cut the tree down I cut it into firewood length, split it and palatalize there. It also helps it dry since it is not on the ground. I have some strips of a old conveyor belt that I cover a few pallets with. I think I have about 40-50 pallets of firewood now. 1 pallet is approximately 1/4 of a cord. The little BX will lift one on the 3PH. I pull up to the house and carry it in the basement. I am afraid to put the whole pallet in, I don't want any critters in the house:laughing:

Speaking of rough grading the area, do you use your grapple for that? A lot of times I use the grapple for grading, not fine grading or anything, but for smoothing out areas that I just tore up, even when I have the box blade on the back. It works surprisingly well. I level the bottom tines with the ground, and drive foward and backward with it. I graded this entire area with nothing more than my grapple...
View attachment 322689

I had the scraper blade on the back for a ballast so I used it. I'll try using the grapple to grade. That area you did turned out nice.

 

[94BULLITT]

Speaking of giving people ideas, you can borrow my wheel-less barrow to move the rest of the wood!
View attachment 322690 View attachment 322691 View attachment 322692

Thanks, I'll pick it up tomorrow. You need a bath tub trailer to go with that.

 

[Xfaxman]

Thanks, I'll pick it up tomorrow. You need a bath tub trailer to go with that.

Okay, just filled it with diesel, it is good to go! Been there, done that, with the bath tub trailer!

 

[stuckmotor]

I was about to saw down a tree today when I remembered this thread. I followed Piston's advise as best I could pushing with the bucket. It's wet here and the tree went over easy. Thanks Piston!