Electrical question - temporary fix - DIY ?

[ITHINKICAN]

Here is: #1.) The water well. #2.) The above ground wire. Everything happens for a reason - if I didn't post the question yesterday - and if everyone didn't reply - and if I didn't go back out for additional pics - this unsafe wire might have sat there and caused some serious damage. At this point I am thinking replace everything - better safe than sorry. #3.) The water well feeds this trough.

We bought this land end of last June. It is unbelieveable I didn't notice this wire between last summer and now... dangit. What a dummy!!

 

[grsthegreat]

Another thing comes to mind....if your planning on demoing all this and move it to the new building soon. Alot of electrical contractors can install a good, new temporary power panel for use during construction at a very reasonable cost (i charge permit fee + $75.00 rental fee for 1 year). They put this in place near the transformer and use it for up to 100 amps power during construction. You can hook RV and well to it also. done all the time here. Also a good time to chat with local electricians and see if theres someone that you can trust on the new buildings. Just a thought

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Random pics from today... Since I have a new schedule (none - LOL) I am trying to get all the nasty rose bushes up so we can spray with a boom and then grow some healthy grass... :thumbsup:

Tuesday I used my bucket but left them where they started. Yeterday I loaded some on a flat trailer behind my F250 - tore up my arms - it kinda worked. Today I pushed a bunch of them to this big pile... it worked... glad I have a cab.

Anyway - time to talk more about the electrical...

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Another thing comes to mind....if your planning on demoing all this and move it to the new building soon. Alot of electrical contractors can install a good, new temporary power panel for use during construction at a very reasonable cost (i charge permit fee + $75.00 rental fee for 1 year). They put this in place near the transformer and use it for up to 100 amps power during construction. You can hook RV and well to it also. done all the time here. Also a good time to chat with local electricians and see if theres someone that you can trust on the new buildings. Just a thought

Interesting post. A good segway in to my questioning:

1.) Can I do something temporary that is safe and inexpensive? I dont mind buying all new - but doing it twice (once now and once again when we do the metal building) sounds wasteful.

You were reading my mind!! LOL! Thanx!!

2.) I don't plan to demo the old barn... with that in mind: My well and old barn are near my power supply. Later down the road when I have power at my new metal building - do I carry all the power to the metal building - run it through a circuit breaker panel - and then return to the well and barn - it sounds like a waste of wire...

3.) Can an electrician make use of those two wires that run from the 50a to the building? Disconnect that funky outlet and use the wires for something else? Like normal receptables...

 

[grsthegreat]

Interesting post. A good segway in to my questioning:

1.) Can I do something temporary that is safe and inexpensive? I dont mind buying all new - but doing it twice (once now and once again when we do the metal building) sounds wasteful.

You were reading my mind!! LOL! Thanx!!

2.) I don't plan to demo the old barn... with that in mind: My well and old barn are near my power supply. Later down the road when I have power at my new metal building - do I carry all the power to the metal building - run it through a circuit breaker panel - and then return to the well and barn - it sounds like a waste of wire...

3.) Can an electrician make use of those two wires that run from the 50a to the building? Disconnect that funky outlet and use the wires for something else? Like normal receptables...

If the old 50 amp wires still work, they can be used to power a subpanel and with that, it can be broken up into smaller 15 or 20 amp circuits to power outlets, lights, etc.

If this was my job, and your planning on moving power to new shop. If you buy a new , small panel for the existing service, you can go and re-use it in the old barn when it comes time to renovate that. If the current well wires are run to this old service, you can install a waterproof junction box in place of this old service and feed it from the newly rewired old barn with the current 50 amp wires that are running to the barn. Then feed the well with these wires (if they still work and arnt rotted out)... if you get my drift.

See id run new underground wires from the new shop to the old barn just because of the pictures i see of the old outlets in the barn. the wires seem to be just coming out of the ground. Id be leery at how good they are. Lets say you were to run a 60 amp feed from the 200 amps at the new shop over to the old barn, then run a 20 amp feed from the old barn out to the well ... possible using the old 50 amp circuits wiring. Just an idea

 

[boggen]

beyond what everyone has said. i am seeing a good amount of more problems in your recent posts.

if it were me.
i would most likely install new main panel at pole.
run new wire out to the old barn, and install sub panel in old barn
run new wire out to the well.
when ready, run new wire to new barn/shed. and install sub panel in new barn/shed.

i would remove the adapter you are now using for your trailer. (dog bone)
and most likely replace entire cable coming from of trailer. with a new "twist lock" plug able end ((double check on amps needed)). "ya said boys and dvd's" kids regardless. the twist lock. would be harder to unplug and a kid getting a shock.

i would most likely rewire old barn. for switches / lights / receptacles. and run to the new sub panel in it.

========================
actually i take part of above back.....

i would install new breaker panel on utility pole.
run new wire out to the "old barn"
install a new sub panel in old barn and run wire from this to well
redo wiring for lights / receptacles in old barn to go to this new sub panel in it.

when it is time run new wire to new shed/barn and place sub panel in it. for all the lights / receptacles in it.

replace the wire / cable coming off of trailer for a new "twist lock" end. ((double check amps for entire trailer for size))
install full water proof twist lock receptacle on utility pole.
install GFCI standard receptacle at utility pole with full water proof covering.

above is a good amount of cost and not no temporary fix but long term fix.
due to need of running new wires to each area, including bringing things up to code, with installing ground rods. and getting wires from place to place under ground far enough to meet code for your area. i don't think there would be much if any sort of "re do over again costs" in above. just out of pocket expense for everything.

==================

sorry, but to me, it looks like a DIY job someone did on there own. and a lot of the safety is just not there. and i am going to assume there are extra splices and things that you may not be able see or yet have found.

granted i am no electrician by no means. and been slowing replacing / upgrading / bring things up to code on this old farm (sheds and house) and the pictures i see resembled some of the nightmares i have had to deal with. and for me, it meant replacing and putting in new in many spots.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

CHANGE OF PLANS -

We've decided to put a manufactured home on the land. I just spoke to Centerpoint and they will have an energy consultant meet with us next Tuesday. On the phone he said we would need to get some special survey (the one we have is not good enough) that is used for power poles and power lines; he said they cost approx $3,000 since 31 acres. We would then pay Centerpoint $1,800 per pole - to add two poles to our property. It would be at least two poles because they can't go over our old barn to arrive at the location. I said that whole thing sounds ridiculous and he said since it is a matter of convenience that we have to pay the entire bill. He did say if we subdivided a small section of the property, obtained a Deed, a new address, a new ESID - that he could do the first three poles for free. But we'd prefer not to subdivide our property

We don't want to wait 6-8 weeks for the power company nor do we want to pay them $3,600 for two new poles and $3,000 for a new survey. We don't want to subdivide our property because it might complicate other things like our ag exemption.

So my NEW question is this: Is it possible to run some type of underground wiring from the existing pole to the new location(s) - I will measure this weekend but I'd guess it is 200-300 feet - and power up a 58,000 btu furnace, 4 ton ac, all the other stuff inside a manufactured home, of course a new well and septic, and then minor power to the inside of the barn like a few lights etc.

I will get pictures this weekend and post by Monday. Have a great weekend!

Thank you!!

 

[boggen]

there is a good amount of folks that have underground electric running from the poles to homes and to sheds. though the pipe and wire to place under ground can be costly. and can add up to or more than having poles installed pending on multi things.

 

[aczlan]

there is a good amount of folks that have underground electric running from the poles to homes and to sheds. though the pipe and wire to place under ground can be costly. and can add up to or more than having poles installed pending on multi things.

Depends on the utility. Some utilities will put it into your conduit for the same price as running the cable above ground (no pole fees). Have to ask the utility people and see exactly what their requirements are.

Aaron Z

 

[grsthegreat]

Most utilities will not put the transformer 300 feet from the proposed house. they try to keep the transformer between 50-100 feet from property due to voltage drop conditions.

You can run the high voltage primaries 300 feet to a ground mount transformer next to proposed house. Here in N Idaho it cost about $10.00 per foot for them to install the high voltage lines underground.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

CHANGE OF PLANS -

We've decided to put a manufactured home on the land. I just spoke to Centerpoint and they will have an energy consultant meet with us next Tuesday. On the phone he said we would need to get some special survey (the one we have is not good enough) that is used for power poles and power lines; he said they cost approx $3,000 since 31 acres. We would then pay Centerpoint $1,800 per pole - to add two poles to our property. It would be at least two poles because they can't go over our old barn to arrive at the location. I said that whole thing sounds ridiculous and he said since it is a matter of convenience that we have to pay the entire bill. He did say if we subdivided a small section of the property, obtained a Deed, a new address, a new ESID - that he could do the first three poles for free. But we'd prefer not to subdivide our property

We don't want to wait 6-8 weeks for the power company nor do we want to pay them $3,600 for two new poles and $3,000 for a new survey. We don't want to subdivide our property because it might complicate other things like our ag exemption.

So my NEW question is this: Is it possible to run some type of underground wiring from the existing pole to the new location(s) - I will measure this weekend but I'd guess it is 200-300 feet - and power up a 58,000 btu furnace, 4 ton ac, all the other stuff inside a manufactured home, of course a new well and septic, and then minor power to the inside of the barn like a few lights etc.

I will get pictures this weekend and post by Monday. Have a great weekend!

Thank you!!

THINK,

I browsed through this thread and came up with a conclusion for you. I have done a lot of DIY electrical jobs for myself and friends, know the trade well and the code well. Your existing set up is a disaster waiting to happen. it is time to find an electrician friend (your church, lodge, clubs, etc) to provide on site advice. The work is not hard just technical. There are enough code violations in your present set up to warrant pulling your meter till you get it fixed. With the corrosion, and two wires under the same screw I am suprised the wires and breakers are not toast from a poor connection. Those top two breakers look like they may be burned out already, thay are corroded beyond imagination to still work. Your existing receptacle needs to be a rainproof one as well as the new one you need for the RV. The RV outlet comes complete with box, raintight cover, and the right receptacle. The right outlet covers allow you to plug in and then pull the cover down over the unit. That 110V receptacle by code either needs a GFCI breaker or receptacle to be legal and SAFE. The big box stores have some good basic wiring manuals that explain a lot of this technical stuff. Good investment for you before you start. As others have said, "replace that old panel and breakers and either know where those wires go or do not connect them.

Ron

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Thank you for the replies. This week we will try to find a fair and reliable electrician. If anyone knows of one in the Fort Bend area - please let me know...

We went out yesterday to meet with a great Company (Ondre Water Well Services, Pleak, TX). He had the opportunity to sell us a new well but he chose not to. He said the existing well works fine and will work ok for our needs. We also cleared the site for the new home and sprayed roundup to kill the grass.

We will be out there later today - I will measure the distance and take those pictures I promised too...

 

[woodlandfarms]

Think

I just want to throw a monkey wrench into your plan. Do not buy a manufactured home, unless it is one of the new modern architecture homes that cost $$$$$. We have a manufactured home and no matter what you are being told, they have not improved on quality. You get what you pay for. And you will NEVER be able to sell the house. Only a couple of lenders are willing to lend on manufactured. Finding one that will lend on land and a manufactured home is nearly impossible...

 

[john25mm]

I question the cost of a new survey, where I have some property the power co'op came out and did a site survey to plan the 3 new poles. Now they do want just under $3000 per pole but the survey was free. No silly me wanting more playtoys went and bought a trencher off of Ebay to put the lines underground. I really didn't want to have to cut a swath of trees from ground to God for above ground lines. You might want to check into underground also. I don't think the cost is that much more and you should never have to worry about weather taking out the lines, at least on your property.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Think

I just want to throw a monkey wrench into your plan. Do not buy a manufactured home, unless it is one of the new modern architecture homes that cost $$$$$. We have a manufactured home and no matter what you are being told, they have not improved on quality. You get what you pay for. And you will NEVER be able to sell the house. Only a couple of lenders are willing to lend on manufactured. Finding one that will lend on land and a manufactured home is nearly impossible...

We wanted a place for our two boys to enjoy dirt bikes, shooting guns and enjoying the outdoors. We had a 2400 sq ft barn built and had considered converting the inside but have since changed our minds. We'd rather have 100% of the 2400 sq ft available. We'll probably do a toilet and a sink or two but that's about it. The manufactured home is a 2012 Clayton Home. It is a buyers market so we got a great deal.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

I question the cost of a new survey, where I have some property the power co'op came out and did a site survey to plan the 3 new poles. Now they do want just under $3000 per pole but the survey was free. No silly me wanting more playtoys went and bought a trencher off of Ebay to put the lines underground. I really didn't want to have to cut a swath of trees from ground to God for above ground lines. You might want to check into underground also. I don't think the cost is that much more and you should never have to worry about weather taking out the lines, at least on your property.

Centerpoint gave us a choice of a blanket easement or a survey easement. It turns out the the blanket is free but cost money to cancel and when cancelled we'd need to get a survey easement anyway. It turns out the survey easement is approx $1600. We asked for a written estimate - the cost (with Centerpoint) just to get power back to where we need it is going to be less than expected; Approx $1600 for the survey easement and somewhere in the range of $1800 for one pole and I expect $200-$300 in chump charges; he said he will let us know if two weeks. At that point we'd need to hire an electrician to do the 200 amp service etc. I am about to post two estimates. The estimates are for doing it from current location back to the structures - NOT using Centerpoint at all.

 

[ITHINKICAN]

We are considering running power from an existing location; approx 230 feet back to a manufactured home.

Here is estimate #1

Re: Service Upgrade Estimate

We propose to remove existing meter loop and install new 200amp meter loop on a 20 foot pole. We will then tie in the existing Trey-cable from the barn and well into the new box. We will trench approximately 237 feet to the far side of the house and set a stub pole with a 200amp disconnect with a feed-thru breaker for the house and the metallic building. We will also run approximately 51 feet to the metallic building with a 60amp feeder to an 8-circuit breaker box inside for future lighting.

All the wiring will be Copper, but we also provided a price for Aluminum in the main 200amp feeder. We do not recommend Aluminum for underground, but it will be enclosed in conduit should it ever need to be removed. This is a long run and the Copper would give a better performance as far as voltage drop is concerned. This feeder would normally be 2 OTT Copper, but for this distance, I am bidding 3 OTT Copper and 4 OTT Aluminum respectively. The option of extending the light company line may save money and increase performance.

Our estimate to complete the above work with 3 OTTCopper wire is $9316.78 (nine thousand three hundred sixteen dollars and seventy-eight cents).

To complete the service with 4 OTT Aluminum wire, out estimated price is $7022.96 (seven thousand twenty-two dollars and ninety-six cents).

They had a symbol that didn't work on TBN - I added the words OTT

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Here is estimate #2. The first section is for leaving the crappy 150 amp service (which we WILL NOT be doing). And then running power back to our structures. The second section is for if we want to run power from the home to the barn. The third section is if we want to delete the 150 amp service and the short pole... then run 400 amp service from centerpoint pole. It basically means; add all three options together and end up with 400 amp service. Sorry about the format - it was an excel spreadsheet.

Material Labor

Proposal 1: Minimum possible (leave 150-amp meter loop as is, run 200-amp service to
mobile home?then if service isn't sufficient, upgrade it at some point in the
future). Run new line to water well and use same ditch.

225' 2" PVC 175.50 1290.00
2 2" PVC elbows + couplings 10.60
3 2" PVC male adapters + locknuts 6.75
1 12" X 12" X 4" WP J-box 31.00
1 2" Myers hub 21.00
460' 3/0 THHN 1794.00 400.00
230' #1 THHN 460.00
230' #4 THHN 241.50

50' ?ｽ" PVC 11.50 200.00
2 ?ｽ" PVC elbows + couplings 2.70
2 ?ｽ" PVC male adapter 1.10
1 ?ｽ" LB, cover, and nipple 6.30
110' #10 THHN 33.00
55' #12 THHN 11.00

Miscellaneous material 20.84


Subtotals 2826.79 1890.00
Sales Tax 233.21

Total estimate 4,950.00

----------------------------------------------------

Material Labor

Proposal 1B: Run power from mobile home to metal barn (wiring inside barn not included).

80' 1" PVC 28.80 520.00
2 1" PVC elbows and couplings 5.70
2 1" PVC male adapter, locknut 1.00
1 Challenger 260 breaker 14.61
170' #6 THHN hots 0.70 300.00
85' #8 THHN neutral 38.25
85' #8 THHN ground 38.25
1 10" X 10" X 4" WP J-box 20.00

Miscellaneous material 18.97


Subtotals 166.28 820.00
Sales Tax 13.72

Total estimate 1,000.00
-----------------------------------------------

Proposal 2: Install new 400-amp meter loop where existing loop is. Run underground service
from this point to (and up) CenterPoint pole.

80' 2" PVC (schedule 40) 62.40 900.00
2 2" PVC elbows + couplings 10.60
1 2" PVC male adapters + locknuts 2.25
25' 2" galvanized conduit 162.50
1 2" weatherhead 15.00
3 2" straps 3.00
440' 2/0 THHN 1408.00
220' #4 THHN 231.00

2 14' poles 150.00 1200.00
20' Unistrut and wing nuts 75.60
1 400-amp meter can and lugs 511.30
1 2" LLB + cover 15.00
1 2" X close nipple, locknuts, bushings 5.00
1 2" X 7" nipple, locknuts, bushings 7.00
1 6" X 6" X 36" WP trough 81.50
2 1ｽ" X close nipples, locknuts, bushings 8.00
2 B150 hubs 22.58
2 SQD QO1816M200FTRB 604.56
40' 2/0 THHN 128.00
20' #4 THHN 21.00
1 Ground rod + clamp 23.00

Miscellaneous material 55.48



Subtotals 3602.77 2100.00
Sales Tax 297.23

Total estimate 6,000.00

 

[crbr]

Thanks for the pictures