Wow! So much to learn.

[emcvay]

Hi All,

If there is one thing I've learned in the last 6-12 months is that I have much to learn!

I've been kicking tires a little and planning my first tractor purchase. I'm not in a huge hurry (thanks to a tight budget and poor economy and my desire not to use credit, or to limit its use) but expect to buy soon (3 months maybe).

We've got 20 acres of mostly pine forest with a little bit of natural pasture (maybe as much as 5 acres but I've never measured and guess more like 2 or 3) and are in the process of building a cabin and orchard.

Since the land is in the hills (and more or less a hill) I have some grades between benches to deal with as well as 2+ feet of snow in the winter. We don't live on the land but would like to make sure we have access year round so we'll have to plow/blow snow during the few months of snow in the winter.

I also plan to clean up the access road and work on some roads on the property as well as clear brush, mow, move slash piles to safe areas for burning, clear rocks, mow brush, bushes, saplings to increase meadow area and disk/plow/till the acreage that we have that's meadow so we can start growing some cover crops (to fix the soil for other crops or perhaps just to attract game).

At some point we'll likely put a few cows on the property to eat and sell annually but I have a fence to build first among other things.

I also have a small sawmill (Woodmizer LT10) and would like a tractor that I can use to pull logs to the mill as well as load them.

My father who lived on a farm when he was a boy (born and raised actually) tells me that 30hp is about all I should need. His dad had a Farmall A that was about 15hp so perhaps he's right...or not. Anyway, I'm thinking 30-35hp and 4wd but all of that is just from tire kicking, talking to salesmen and gleaning info off others on the net.

I've love to hear your thoughts on what I probably could use/need would be nice to have etc as well as on brands particularly these: Manhindra, Massey, Branson, New Holland, John Deere, Kubota and Case.

Dollar wise I was originally looking at buying used in the $3500-$5000 range but have since moved into the New/Used $10,000-$20,000 range because of financing options offered lately and my desire to get the best tractor I can get for the money without limiting myself to 2WD tractors that are 40 years old

My latest interest is a New Holland 1510 w/loader that is being offered at $15,375 new. It's tempting but I want to be certain that it's the right approach before I go out and commit to that much cash/credit!

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge.
Erik

 

[kootch88]

MADMAX did a lot of tire kicking on the LS brand, which apparently makes the boomer series and others for MF I think. He said there was great value in those models but ended up with a Mahindra Max 28xl due to the dealer.

 

[emcvay]

Thanks for the feedback. I just learned about Mahindra's the other day actually and they seem to have pretty decent feedback.

My biggest issue is dealerships -- in my area the closest I've found so far is 70 miles away and where my property is it's looking like 200+

Locally we have New Holland, Case, John Deere, Kubota and 35 minutes away Branson and Yanmar.

Not sure of any others local -- by my property I may be limitted to JD and Kubota but I'm still searching (it's 250 miles drive from where I live).

Thanks

 

[kootch88]

Thanks for the feedback. I just learned about Mahindra's the other day actually and they seem to have pretty decent feedback.

My biggest issue is dealerships -- in my area the closest I've found so far is 70 miles away and where my property is it's looking like 200+

Locally we have New Holland, Case, John Deere, Kubota and 35 minutes away Branson and Yanmar.

Not sure of any others local -- by my property I may be limitted to JD and Kubota but I'm still searching (it's 250 miles drive from where I live).

Thanks

I have mahindra Max 22 and love it. But you seem to be needing more of the max28 range of power.

 

[emcvay]

Sure looks like a small tractor! Will it pull an 80 foot ponderosa off the side hill? Just curious but one of the tasks I have for a tractor is hauling logs out of the pine forest where I cut them and over to the mill. I cut them into cant lengths (8'6" or 10'6" roughly) once I have them in a manageable place but any tractor I get must pull them as well as my Jeep

 

[LAWALLSTRACTOR]

Sure looks like a small tractor! Will it pull an 80 foot ponderosa off the side hill? Just curious but one of the tasks I have for a tractor is hauling logs out of the pine forest where I cut them and over to the mill. I cut them into cant lengths (8'6" or 10'6" roughly) once I have them in a manageable place but any tractor I get must pull them as well as my Jeep

You need a heavier tractor, a Mahindra 3016 , I believe, would be more comparable to the NH 1520. I would go even heavier like a Mahindra 3535, or even a 4025 4WD.

 

[emcvay]

You need a heavier tractor, a Mahindra 3016 , I believe, would be more comparable to the NH 1520. I would go even heavier like a Mahindra 3535, or even a 4025 4WD.

Thanks for the post -- I have a call scheduled with a Mahindra dealer today to discuss pricing and will keep that in mind.

I like the pricing on the New Holland but if a bigger Mahindra is around the same price then it might be worth my while.

 

[emcvay]

Spoke with a Mahindra dealer today who quoted me $18,600 for a 4WD 3616 w/loader.

Certainly affordable with their financing and 5 year warranty makes me think it's backed by someone with confidence.

A little more then the comparable New Holland that's on sale for $16,900 though perhaps a bigger tractor physically which might be nice.

He also recommended a Shuttle vs. HST because of the long driveway up the hill to our place that I may need/want to plow (very likely I WILL plow/blow snow on it each winter actually)....and a few other things (like loader work).

Thoughts?

 

[Creamer]

I have a 1983 Ford 1710 which was made by Shibaura and has about 24 hp. It has FWD and it does everything I would want along with not being too big to put on a lawn. I have pulled 30" diameter 10" long cherry logs with it, use a 5' bush hog, plow snow, and even back it right into my pond to pull weeds as well as finish cut the lawn. It is amazing what a small compact tractor will do. Too big and it will not be as flexible. By the same token not ahving enough power when you need it is a big problem.

Since you are looking at an HST you will need a little more hp to get the same to the ground or PTO so I would seriously look at going one size up and see if that still fits you. But a 1510 is not a bad choice for what you are describing.

 

[emcvay]

I have a 1983 Ford 1710 which was made by Shibaura and has about 24 hp. It has FWD and it does everything I would want along with not being too big to put on a lawn. I have pulled 30" diameter 10" long cherry logs with it, use a 5' bush hog, plow snow, and even back it right into my pond to pull weeds as well as finish cut the lawn. It is amazing what a small compact tractor will do. Too big and it will not be as flexible. By the same token not ahving enough power when you need it is a big problem.

Since you are looking at an HST you will need a little more hp to get the same to the ground or PTO so I would seriously look at going one size up and see if that still fits you. But a 1510 is not a bad choice for what you are describing.

If you could afford the New Holland 1510 or the Mahindra 3616 which would you most likely choose?

I like the 5yr warranty on the Mahindra and wonder if it might be better to get the bigger tractor with this in mind: I may never have the finances to buy one again (with this economy one can't be certain) so is it best to buy bigger (not like the 35-37hp Mahindra is THAT much bigger then the 1510 or 1520 but it does appear to be a bigger/heavier tractor and I think it has more loader lift)?

Also, I thinking shuttle shift might be better even in the 35hp just from talking to an older salesman more familiar with the mountains in my neck of the woods.

 

[Martian]

What do you plan on doing to feed the cows? Round bales require a larger tractor for their size.

A Max is much to small for your needs. I think you'd want no less than 40HP. You could get away with less, but in that range your doing work more comfortably.

I will always recommend HST. I've owned, and still own both. HST is MUCH easier and more comfortable to use. If you are noticing the difference between HST and gear, you need a larger tractor anyway as the power loss is so small, you'd be struggling with a gear as well. Loader work is much easier with HST as well, not sure how he sees it being easier with a gear.

Mahindra is a very good tractor. Built heavy and lift a lot of weight. Kioti would be another good brand too look at. I would be somewhat concerned without many dealers close to where your property is. Deere and Kubota are good to check out, but each will be slightly more expensive than Mahindra and Kioti.

 

[emcvay]

What do you plan on doing to feed the cows? Round bales require a larger tractor for their size.

A Max is much to small for your needs. I think you'd want no less than 40HP. You could get away with less, but in that range your doing work more comfortably.

I will always recommend HST. I've owned, and still own both. HST is MUCH easier and more comfortable to use. If you are noticing the difference between HST and gear, you need a larger tractor anyway as the power loss is so small, you'd be struggling with a gear as well. Loader work is much easier with HST as well, not sure how he sees it being easier with a gear.

Mahindra is a very good tractor. Built heavy and lift a lot of weight. Kioti would be another good brand too look at. I would be somewhat concerned without many dealers close to where your property is. Deere and Kubota are good to check out, but each will be slightly more expensive than Mahindra and Kioti.

Great post! Thanks.

If we get cows we can freerange them but I don't plan on that. I'm told that we can probably raise 4 cows/steer with our current land condition (free range in the area figures one cow/steer per 5-10 acres depending on where they are). So while we would probably still need to bring in hay at some point I'm thinking it wouldn't be a ton. Also, round bales might be tougher to get here rather then smaller square bales. The road isn't very wide and is pretty steep. There would be NO 18 wheeler of hay making it up there regardless of weather so I'm thinking more likely 1 or 2 ton truck with 100lb bales.

But I'm a newb frankly so have LOTS to learn still -- heck I still have to get a fence up:confused2:

 

[Martian]

Great post! Thanks.

If we get cows we can freerange them but I don't plan on that. I'm told that we can probably raise 4 cows/steer with our current land condition (free range in the area figures one cow/steer per 5-10 acres depending on where they are). So while we would probably still need to bring in hay at some point I'm thinking it wouldn't be a ton. Also, round bales might be tougher to get here rather then smaller square bales. The road isn't very wide and is pretty steep. There would be NO 18 wheeler of hay making it up there regardless of weather so I'm thinking more likely 1 or 2 ton truck with 100lb bales.

But I'm a newb frankly so have LOTS to learn still -- heck I still have to get a fence up:confused2:

Makes more since. I was wondering how you planned on feeding cattle 250 miles away from you everyday as well! Any tractor will handle small square bales. Do you already have a water source of some type then? A nice stream would be perfect but a pond would work as well.

Addressing the tractor: I don't think you have many great options to keep the whole package under $20k new. You might consider a couple year old machine. You want something bigger as what seems you'll have limited time there and need to get your work done faster. It would help if you told a little more on how much land moving/clearing you plan to do. If your just doing maintenance, you don't need as big of a machine as clearing/leveling and building.

From what I've heard I'd check out: Mahindra 4035, Kioti DK40, Deere 4120, Kubota L4240. All right around the same HP and pretty comparable machines. Deere/Kubota will be more, but if that's the only local dealer you have, it may be worth the cost.

 

[emcvay]

Makes more since. I was wondering how you planned on feeding cattle 250 miles away from you everyday as well! Any tractor will handle small square bales. Do you already have a water source of some type then? A nice stream would be perfect but a pond would work as well.

Addressing the tractor: I don't think you have many great options to keep the whole package under $20k new. You might consider a couple year old machine. You want something bigger as what seems you'll have limited time there and need to get your work done faster. It would help if you told a little more on how much land moving/clearing you plan to do. If your just doing maintenance, you don't need as big of a machine as clearing/leveling and building.

From what I've heard I'd check out: Mahindra 4035, Kioti DK40, Deere 4120, Kubota L4240. All right around the same HP and pretty comparable machines. Deere/Kubota will be more, but if that's the only local dealer you have, it may be worth the cost.

Thanks for the reply.

We have a stream that runs most of the year though it dries up in late July early August however we also have a well with a solar powered pump (including controller), a cistern and cistern float valve and I can set the cistern up with an overflow to water animals from (though I don't know how much yet I'll need for 1 cow/steer per day I'm sure I can easily provide 200-300 gallons a day without even working the system).

Of the 20 acres I'd say about 5 are pretty rocky pine forest (cliffs, bluffs) and a swampy stream runs through one corner of the property (comes from a spring just 30 yards from our property line). The remaining 15 is sparse pine forest and natural meadow with perhaps as much as 5 acres being open meadow without much in the way of trees (one of those trees is a Ponderosa that is 4 feet wide but it's almost a lone tree in that area).

I plan to mow as much of it as I can though it's a hill with benches (I'll see if I can post a picture in here for you) and turn the 5ish acres into pasture/crop field (either or)....

 

[emcvay]

Upper Meadow (3200' in altitude)

Drive way (notice slash pile that needs to be moved and burned).

Here are two shots of the land, one shows the 'meadow' (or what I call a meadow anyway) and one shows the driveway about halfway into the land.

Thanks for looking

 

[Martian]

Thats quite a grade you got there. In my opinion I would definitely go with the frame size tractor I mentioned as they will give you good stability and plenty of power. They might kill your budget (again) though:laughing: You don't want to get caught with your pants on the ground and need to upgrade to a larger tractor. Let me tell you from experience, I'd rather swallow a little more money once that a lot of money twice...

 

[emcvay]

Thats quite a grade you got there. In my opinion I would definitely go with the frame size tractor I mentioned as they will give you good stability and plenty of power. They might kill your budget (again) though:laughing: You don't want to get caught with your pants on the ground and need to upgrade to a larger tractor. Let me tell you from experience, I'd rather swallow a little more money once that a lot of money twice...

Thanks -- just so I understand, you're suggesting something larger then a NH1520 or Mahindra 3616?

 

[emcvay]

Thats quite a grade you got there. In my opinion I would definitely go with the frame size tractor I mentioned as they will give you good stability and plenty of power. They might kill your budget (again) though:laughing: You don't want to get caught with your pants on the ground and need to upgrade to a larger tractor. Let me tell you from experience, I'd rather swallow a little more money once that a lot of money twice...

Looks like the 4035 is almost 2000lbs heavier then the 3616 but PTO power is only 2hp difference....engine HP is 5hp difference.

Interesting how much heavier the 4035 is.

 

[Baby Grand]

Nice looking land! With those slopes, think wide & low .... wide & low.
Weight alone isn't the answer - you'll be wanting a low CG to stay on all 4 wheels.
Try to get a machine with tires set wide and get as much weight as you can down low.
Spend some extra time searching and reading threads on ballast and the consequences of not ballasting properly.
For stability, I think you may want loaded R4s.
You'll be trading some traction for stability, but you can get a lot of that traction back with tire chains.
Definitely don't plan on using this machine to cut the lawn.

 

[Martian]

Thanks -- just so I understand, you're suggesting something larger then a NH1520 or Mahindra 3616?

Yes. I think you could get away with that size tractor, but to do what you plan in limited time not living on the land and such a slope, at least I would want something larger with a wider wheel base and I would still plan on getting spacers or flipping the wheels. You'll get a lot more stability in the 4035 vs 3616.