Ford 4610 trailer conundrum

[Farmwithjunk]

Yeah, I didn't plan on being overweight...



No, I'm not a contractor, I do not own a business. I'm a Mechanical engineer by day, play with toys at night. I have never taken my equipment anywhere to make money with them.



I'm thinking about a 8000-10,000 GVW trailer. My tractor weighs ~5000 lbs, trailer would weigh ~2200-2500 lbs.



I don't think so... Maybe on a 8000 GVW trailer, but I don't own any implements close to 800 lbs...


I don't believe I'm doing that, even with a 8000 GVW trailer... Some of you guys seem to be telling me I need to be ~2000 lbs or something under the load rating of the trailer or I'm being "irresponsible"? Really? Is there an established non-irresponsible number to be under the load capacity of the trailer I am not aware of? Should I only ever haul 75% of what the trailer is rated for?

Loading a 5000 lbs tractor on a trailer that can haul 5800 lbs is wrong?

Anyways, this thread was more about narrowing up my 4610 as opposed to hauling safety 101, and thanks to some advice from aczlan, I found out I am able to do so 82" wide to 78" wide, with minimal fender modification, and keeping the ROPS. Good deal IMO.

Yeah, whatta I know about hauling tractors on a trailer anyway.....Just that I currently own 4 truck/trailers and average somewhere near 90,000 miles of hauling/towing a year because of my business.....

You MIGHT want to consider that tractor won't weigh 5000lbs in all likelyhood. You're looking at a "dry shipping weight". (Which Ford claimed as 4885 DRY WEIGHT on a base model w/o rops, smaller tires, ect...to a max weight of 8250 with "factory installed options") Any 4000 Ford I've ever been around will hit the scales closer to 6000+ without added ballast. Then you have ROPS, chains/binders, fluids, ect, plus whatever implement you're hauling with the tractor. My 6' Bush Hog weighs over 1000lbs. Got a 7'er that scales closer to 1500lbs.

Then again, no one says common sense is "common".......

 

[ETD66SS]

Yeah, whatta I know about hauling tractors on a trailer anyway.....Just that I currently own 4 truck/trailers and average somewhere near 90,000 miles of hauling/towing a year because of my business.....

You MIGHT want to consider that tractor won't weigh 5000lbs in all likelyhood. You're looking at a "dry shipping weight". (Which Ford claimed as 4885 DRY WEIGHT on a base model w/o rops, smaller tires, ect...to a max weight of 8250 with "factory installed options") Any 4000 Ford I've ever been around will hit the scales closer to 6000+ without added ballast. Then you have ROPS, chains/binders, ect, plus whatever implement you're hauling with the tractor. My 6' Bush Hog weighs over 1000lbs. Got a 7'er that scales closer to 1500lbs.

I'm not saying I know more about hauling than you, I don't, this would be my first trailer, so obviously I don't. I'm just trying to understand why ppl are getting all bent out of shape. I don't plan to haul more than the trailer can handle.

And don't forget, this is a 4610SU Maybe I can drive it some place that has a scale...

Not trying to win an internet argument here, because we all know that's not possible

Besides, would I not be irresponsible to buy a 12,000 GVW trailer and pull that with my truck that is rated for 10,500 lbs max towing?

Next I will have ppl telling me to buy a new truck, lol!

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I'm not saying I know more about hauling than you, I don't, this would be my first trailer, so obviously I don't. I'm just trying to understand why ppl are getting all bent out of shape. I don't plan to haul more than the trailer can handle.

And don't forget, this is a 4610SU Maybe I can drive it some place that has a scale...

Not trying to win an internet argument here, because we all know that's not possible

Besides, would I not be irresponsible to buy a 12,000 GVW trailer and pull that with my truck that is rated for 10,500 lbs max towing?

Next I will have ppl telling me to buy a new truck, lol!

Towing a trailer @ LESS THAN it's maximum weight capacity isn't "irresponsible"....In one case, I tow a 20,000GVWR trailer with a truck that has just over 11.000lbs towing capacity. Never an issue since it usually only carries a load around 9,000lbs. Just a margin to handle "future needs" so I don't need to buy another trailer once I upgrade to a bigger truck.

Your though on weighing the tractor makes GOOD sense. After years of buying/selling tractors, most of which I've had to haul home, I've found it's EXTREMELY rare when you get one that scales @ (or even NEAR) manufacturers "dry weight" specs. Just brought home a Deere 2755 that weighs almost 3000lbs MORE than what Deere spec-ed as dry weight, and it doesn't have any added ballast.....Just larger tires/rims than base model, a ROPS/canopy, and an aftermarket tool box.

I don't see myself (or anyone else for that matter) getting "bent out of shape". Just trying to pass along a bit of (hopefully) useful information based on actual real world experience. Sorry if reality as I know it doesn't coincide with your plans.

I once owned a trailer that was rated as 7000lbs GVW. It weighed right at 1700lbs. I hauled a tractor that was spec-ed @ 4400lbs on that trailer. That gave me a 900lb "margin". After the trailer frame snapped when I hit a bump on the highway @ 60mph, It dawned on me that just the simple "static weight" isn't all you have to consider. Just BARELY beating the capacity is OK 99% of the time, but that other 1% can be a killer.

 

[ETD66SS]

Towing a trailer @ LESS THAN it's maximum weight capacity isn't "irresponsible"....In one case, I tow a 20,000GVWR trailer with a truck that has just over 11.000lbs towing capacity. Never an issue since it usually only carries a load around 9,000lbs. Just a margin to handle "future needs" so I don't need to buy another trailer once I upgrade to a bigger truck.

Your though on weighing the tractor makes GOOD sense. After years of buying/selling tractors, most of which I've had to haul home, I've found it's EXTREMELY rare when you get one that scales @ (or even NEAR) manufacturers "dry weight" specs. Just brought home a Deere 2755 that weighs almost 3000lbs MORE than what Deere spec-ed as dry weight, and it doesn't have any added ballast.....Just larger tires/rims than base model, a ROPS/canopy, and an aftermarket tool box.

I don't see myself (or anyone else for that matter) getting "bent out of shape". Just trying to pass along a bit of (hopefully) useful information based on actual real world experience. Sorry if reality as I know it doesn't coincide with your plans.

I once owned a trailer that was rated as 7000lbs GVW. It weighed right at 1700lbs. I hauled a tractor that was spec-ed @ 4400lbs on that trailer. That gave me a 900lb "margin". After the trailer frame snapped when I hit a bump on the highway @ 60mph, It dawned on me that just the simple "static weight" isn't all you have to consider. Just BARELY beating the capacity is OK 99% of the time, but that other 1% can be a killer.

Ouch, well, as a mechanical engineer who designs machines that have the potential to injure and/or kill if I don't design in sufficient safety factor. I find it hard to believe that trailers are designed to snap in half when they hit a bump carrying their max load. However, there are many places out there that buy axles, manufacture and sell trailers, maybe not all trailer manufacturers design in proper safety factors for shock loading.

I'm not even sure I want to buy a trailer anymore... :laughing:

 

[strum456]

I have an 18' Gatormade rated at 10,000. It is 81" wide. I occationally use it to haul my 345d Ford New Holland industrial tractor (basically an industrial 4610, but heavier). It works great as an all around trailer. If I was going to haul 345 all the time, I would need more trailer AND more truck. I understand your situation.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Ouch, well, as a mechanical engineer who designs machines that have the potential to injure and/or kill if I don't design in sufficient safety factor. I find it hard to believe that trailers are designed to snap in half when they hit a bump carrying their max load. However, there are many places out there that buy axles, manufacture and sell trailers, maybe not all trailer manufacturers design in proper safety factors for shock loading.

I'm not even sure I want to buy a trailer anymore... :laughing:

I'm quite sure it wasn't deigned to snap, but it did. I have no idea just how much extra stress was applied when I hit the "bump", but it was a heck of a jolt even to the truck. Point is, you have ZERO control over some of the unexpected "outside forces" that create a panic situation. (ie blown tires, stupid drivers you might share the road with, bad road conditions, ect...) And, as I mentioned in an earlier post, things wear out....Safety margin decreases over time. I might be overstating my case, but I feel very strong about loading a truck or trailer to within a few pounds of it's maximum. Whoever hung the weight rating on MY trailer doesn't have to be there when I'm filling out the accident report.

And, you'd be amazed at just how many supposedly "well made" trailers there are on the road these days that have nothing more than a bit of "shade tree engineering" in their genetic make-up.

By the way, LOVE the avatar!!

 

[ETD66SS]

I have an 18' Gatormade rated at 10,000. It is 81" wide. I occationally use it to haul my 345d Ford New Holland industrial tractor (basically an industrial 4610, but heavier). It works great as an all around trailer. If I was going to haul 345 all the time, I would need more trailer AND more truck. I understand your situation.

Yeah, that is considerably heavier, you have the large casting on the front with the heavier front axle. You have a FEL on that too?

When I bought my 4610SU, the guy told me it weighed 4500 lbs... I don't know what to believe anymore.

 

[aczlan]

When I bought my 4610SU, the guy told me it weighed 4500 lbs... I don't know what to believe anymore.

Take it to a scale... That is the only thing that will tell you for sure.

Aaron Z

 

[ETD66SS]

Take it to a scale... That is the only thing that will tell you for sure.

Aaron Z

I would need a trailer to do that :laughing::laughing::laughing:

 

[strum456]

Yeah, that is considerably heavier, you have the large casting on the front with the heavier front axle. You have a FEL on that too?

When I bought my 4610SU, the guy told me it weighed 4500 lbs... I don't know what to believe anymore.

It is 4x4 with a full cab and loader. I think it is around 9000 lbs. Are your tires filled? Mine are not. Do you have wheel weights?

I would look at 10,000 GVW trailers for what you are doing. Then you will have room to spare on the weight rating (less room if you have wheel weights). I wouldn't want a deck-over either for my uses either. It would be really hard for me to get my street-rod on it.

I would look at getting fold up ramps with the legs that sit on the ground to support the back of the trailer. Without the legs, your tractor will lift the back of your truck right off the ground. Always block your trailer tires when loading.

 

[ETD66SS]

It is 4x4 with a full cab and loader. I think it is around 9000 lbs. Are your tires filled? Mine are not. Do you have wheel weights?

I would look at 10,000 GVW trailers for what you are doing. Then you will have room to spare on the weight rating (less room if you have wheel weights). I wouldn't want a deck-over either for my uses either. It would be really hard for me to get my street-rod on it.

I would look at getting fold up ramps with the legs that sit on the ground to support the back of the trailer. Without the legs, your tractor will lift the back of your truck right off the ground. Always block your trailer tires when loading.

No wheel weights, no loaded tires. I will say though, I do need to add front wafer weights at some point in time, but those can easily be removed & thrown in the pickup bed when hauling.

Wow, so you're towing a 9000lb tractor on a 10k GVW trailer. :O

Yeah, some ppl block, some ppl don't. I'll definitely block or get the ramps with legs.

 

[strum456]

Yes, a 9000 pound machine with a 10000 gvw trailer. Technically that would be over weight, since the trailer is 2000 lbs. But dont forget to subtract the 10% tongue weight

I can't remember the rule exactly, but I looked it up in the code for PA and I don't think they can fine you until you are 1000 or 2000 pounds over, something like that. Clearly, this is not an ideal situation. I go for years without putting my tractor on the trailer. It works when I need to haul it though.

 

[ETD66SS]

I go for years without putting my tractor on the trailer. It works when I need to haul it though.

I'll be in the same boat. At the moment, I have no need to take my 4610 anywhere.

But, I just want to make sure I have a trailer than can, if I need to...

 

[strum456]

So, back to your initial problem. Your tractor is 82" wide? I don't think you will have a problem finding an 81" trailer. I havent seen any wider than that, unfortunately. My tractor is exactly 81", and it squeezes on (not ideal, but it works). Could there be a little error in your measurements? I find it difficult to accurately measure from one tire to another. Try leaning long boards so they span the tires and stick out the back. Then measure between them.

 

[ETD66SS]

So, back to your initial problem. Your tractor is 82" wide? I don't think you will have a problem finding an 81" trailer. I havent seen any wider than that, unfortunately. My tractor is exactly 81", and it squeezes on (not ideal, but it works). Could there be a little error in your measurements? I find it difficult to accurately measure from one tire to another. Try leaning long boards so they span the tires and stick out the back. Then measure between them.

Actually, I got that measurement down to 78" by moving the rim centers.

So that issue is solved, now I just have to decide on a trailer.

I checked my Ford 575D TLB yesterday, and that measures out at 88", so was wider than I thought.

I'm actually getting that moved tomorrow, as I need it at my brothers shop so I can reseal the swing cylinder. That machine is ~17,000 lbs No way I'll ever have a setup to tow that one...

 

[Ford tractor]

How would a DOT enforcement stop get me into trouble exactly? I would not be overweight, some of you guys... :confused2:

EDIT: Nevermind about the CDL, I can tow up to 10,000 lbs GVW, and the total cannot exceed 26,000 lbs, not 16,000 lbs. So yeah, a 10,000 GVW trailer is as heavy as I can buy.

You have to be both under the total tag weight AND each axle must be under the max load for it. People often get the total weight right, but the load balance wrong. Also if the axle is over, the tires may be over. If the tires are over, the rims may be over to. Each has it's own little penalty. So one axle, can also mean 2 tires and 2 rims too! Once the DOT has their claws out, the bill is commonly over 1000.

On CDL, you can pull more than 10k WITHOUT a CDL. I do it all the time! (BUT some states don't allow it -- check your state) In our state and many others; If the trailer is over 10,000, the total has to be under 26k. If the trailer is 10k or less, the truck can be 26k for a total of 36k.
That's my experience, you are free to do as you see fit. (and pay what ever fines that may bring!)

 

[ETD66SS]

You have to be both under the total tag weight AND each axle must be under the max load for it. People often get the total weight right, but the load balance wrong. Also if the axle is over, the tires may be over. If the tires are over, the rims may be over to. Each has it's own little penalty. So one axle, can also mean 2 tires and 2 rims too! Once the DOT has their claws out, the bill is commonly over 1000.

On CDL, you can pull more than 10k WITHOUT a CDL. I do it all the time! (BUT some states don't allow it -- check your state) In our state and many others; If the trailer is over 10,000, the total has to be under 26k. If the trailer is 10k or less, the truck can be 26k for a total of 36k.
That's my experience, you are free to do as you see fit. (and pay what ever fines that may bring!)

Yeah, it's the same here in New York, for now...

I'm sure eventually the gov't will not allow us to tow anything, and soon after that we will no longer be allowed to drive ourselves, the cars will drive for us.

 

[Ford tractor]

Yeah, it's the same here in New York, for now...

I'm sure eventually the gov't will not allow us to tow anything, and soon after that we will no longer be allowed to drive ourselves, the cars will drive for us.

Sadly, that's true and being pushed for by the teamsters. If they have their way, you will need a union card to go along with that CDL for all trailers.

 

[whodat526]

Ouch, well, as a mechanical engineer who designs machines that have the potential to injure and/or kill if I don't design in sufficient safety factor. I find it hard to believe that trailers are designed to snap in half when they hit a bump carrying their max load. However, there are many places out there that buy axles, manufacture and sell trailers, maybe not all trailer manufacturers design in proper safety factors for shock loading.

I'm not even sure I want to buy a trailer anymore... :laughing:

i can say that i loaded a trialmaster 28ft dual tandem trailer and it snapped the neck off when we hit a bad pot whole

 

[Soundguy]

Ouch, well, as a mechanical engineer who designs machines that have the potential to injure and/or kill if I don't design in sufficient safety factor. I find it hard to believe that trailers are designed to snap in half when they hit a bump carrying their max load. However, there are many places out there that buy axles, manufacture and sell trailers, maybe not all trailer manufacturers design in proper safety factors for shock loading.

I'm not even sure I want to buy a trailer anymore... :laughing:

i see it all the time. a local trailer place sells a 16' 7k rated landscape trailer, and a 16' 7k ratted car hauler. car hauler has 3" angle iron frame and 4 in some places near the axle and spring hangers. '2' 3500 axles and wood deck, 2x6 weights about 1740# 'dry' with 2 ramps

the landscape special has 2" angle frame, and 3" at the axle and spring hangers. has a top rail bar that is also angle iron, has a fold down ramp that is 1" tube steel and all expanded metal floor and ramp. weighs 1300# dry.. Every day I see these trailers with someone throwing some 3/4" plywwod ont he expanded metal deck and on t he ramp, and hauling a 30hp tractor and mower on it

2 3500# axles does not a 7k trailer make. See a guy that had the trailer bowed with t he rar 3-4" lower than the front due to weight sag.. as he drove it the thing flexed all over, front to back, side to side... I bet if he hit a pothole like FWJ said, at 60, that trailer frame would bottom out int he back and fold at the axle hangers...

soundguy