Ford 4610 trailer conundrum

[ETD66SS]

The trailer you posted about is about 2200 pounds. That leaves 5800 pounds for the tractor. The dry ship weight of the 4610 is just over 5100 pounds. Field ready ballasted it is OVER 8000 pounds.
That 8000 pound trailer would limit you to never hauling anything but the bare tractor -- no attachment. Plus (more importantly), you would need to be hyper aware of where on the trailer the tractor was positioned to avoid overloading one of the trailers axles!

Your first DOT enforcement stop will make the cost of the correctly sized trailer look cheap.

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2793&context=tractormuseumlit

How would a DOT enforcement stop get me into trouble exactly? I would not be overweight, some of you guys... :confused2: But, I won't get upset, I saw the safety police in this thread a mile away before I even started it

However, I may consider the 10,000 GVW version.

16 Ft. 9,990 lb. Wood Skid Steer

But I do not have a CDL license, and my truck is 8600lb GVW, making the truck + trailer over 18,600 lbs GVW, which I think is 2,600 lb over the NYS DOT limit for not having to have a CDL.

I think I could register the 10K trailer at 9400lb GVW however. Somethign to look into...

EDIT: Nevermind about the CDL, I can tow up to 10,000 lbs GVW, and the total cannot exceed 26,000 lbs, not 16,000 lbs. So yeah, a 10,000 GVW trailer is as heavy as I can buy.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

I personally would go with a deck over. I have a low utility trailer with fenders on it and I can't stand it. You can't side load pallets very easily because you have to deal with those fenders. Wide tractors have to be lined up perfectly or you will be hitting and having to reposition to line up again. They have their uses but if I was to do it again I would get a deckover with dovetail and not be so limited.

 

[ETD66SS]

I personally would go with a deck over. I have a low utility trailer with fenders on it and I can't stand it. You can't side load pallets very easily because you have to deal with those fenders. Wide tractors have to be lined up perfectly or you will be hitting and having to reposition to line up again. They have their uses but if I was to do it again I would get a deckover with dovetail and not be so limited.

Those are valid reasons. I just don't want to spend the extra $1000. Nor am I fond of whatever I'm towing being 18" higher off the ground. But, I will consider it as an option, problem is the place I want to buy a trailer from does not make 16ft 10,000 GVW deckovers. Smallest they have is 14,000 GVW 22 ft

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Those are valid reasons. I just don't want to spend the extra $1000.

I understand. I just saw you mention wanting to be able to haul palleted materials and these trailers are not great for hauling anything but equipment and even then their not ideal for equipment outside of compact tractors, excavators and skid steers.

Also, even being low make sure you get as long a ramps as you can get for them. The longer the ramp the easier it will be to load and unload.

 

[ETD66SS]

I understand. I just saw you mention wanting to be able to haul palleted materials and these trailers are not great for hauling anything but equipment and even then their not ideal for equipment outside of compact tractors, excavators and skid steers.

Also, even being low make sure you get as long a ramps as you can get for them. The longer the ramp the easier it will be to load and unload.

I should probably just make my own trailer

I have loaded logs onto a trailer with fenders from the side, and you are correct in that it's a pain to not drop stuff on the fenders...

 

[Soundguy]

i'd get a deckover trailer and forget about removing the safety bar that's gonna saver yer neck when you roll her.

a 'between' the fenders trailer for that big of a tractor is not worth it. a 4xxx ford is a real pice of equipment.. not an 8n..... that you put on a car hauler..

 

[ETD66SS]

i'd get a deckover trailer and forget about removing the safety bar that's gonna saver yer neck when you roll her.

a 'between' the fenders trailer for that big of a tractor is not worth it. a 4xxx ford is a real pice of equipment.. not an 8n..... that you put on a car hauler..

Actually, I don't have to remove the ROPS

But I'm taking a look for a different trailer manufacturer, as Kaufman Trailers does not sell any deckovers that are small enough. I don't really want anythgin over 16 ft.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Actually, I don't have to remove the ROPS

But I'm taking a look for a different trailer manufacturer, as Kaufman Trailers does not sell any deckovers that are small enough. I don't really want anythgin over 16 ft.

Take a look at PJ trailers. I have always liked them and recently bought a 14' PJ dump trailer (way more money then what you want to spend I bet but it would work for you). I have been thinking of replacing my utility trailer with a PJ deckover but with the dump trailer I don't know if I can justify buying a new trailer. Maybe some day though

 

[D7E]

Probably scarce over here but the majority of british 4610's had 13.6 in tyres on them..!

 

[Duffster]

So yeah, a 10,000 GVW trailer is as heavy as I can buy.

Why?

26k is the limit before CDL. 26k - 8600= 17,400 trailer limit.

 

[Soundguy]

Probably scarce over here but the majority of british 4610's had 13.6 in tyres on them..!

since he's already bought rubber.. likely a moot point...

 

[Zebrafive]

If you are willing to reverse the rear wheels and tires just to haul, find a smaller worn out set to throw on to haul. Too much WORK for me :laughing:

 

[rambler]

Nice idea

Thing is, I'm not sure in order to do that, that I'd not have to not only flip the tires from one side to the other, but remove the carriage bolts, flip the centers, and remove the fenders.

Bottom line is, this tracking width seems excessive to me, and I was wondering if I can change it is all.

As you've found out, there are many many different ways to put the rims and centers together to make different widths. If you flip the centers and put them back on the other side of the rim tabs, you will get yet another width. The manual will show the different setups.

The tractor can be set up very narrow. The roll over is kindof a construction addition. A good one, but....

Is it possible to put the fenders inside of the roll bar, and stack the mounting tab under the roll bar bolts on the inside?

An inch of clearance is terrible tight, doesn't allow for mud.

--->Paul

 

[D7E]

since he's already bought rubber.. likely a moot point...

sshh or i'l report you for animal cruelty ..

Simply pointing out that they are available..maybe he wont like the ones he has bought . I have a set of 13.6 /28 rims in red that would fit ...sorry sir !

 

[ETD66SS]

I've been looking at some deck over trailers. Honestly, the $$$ just keeps going up every time I "re-think" my trailer options. DO's are just too rich for my blood atm.

Why?

26k is the limit before CDL. 26k - 8600= 17,400 trailer limit.

As far as the GVCW and DOT number:

If you operate a truck for business purposes with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or a truck and trailer with a gross combination vehicle weight rating (GCWR) of 10,001 lbs. or more, you need a USDOT number.

Note: Trucks used strictly for personal (non-business) or recreational use do not require a USDOT Number!

Commonly asked questions and answers related to the requirements for obtaining a USDOT number.

So from that I read, since I don't own a business, I never need a DOT number, no matter what the GVCW is.

As far as my class D NYS license:

Operator, Class D: Issued to drivers age 18 or over, or to drivers age 17 with Driver Education. Valid for passenger cars and trucks with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,000 lbs. or less. A Class D driver can drive a vehicle that tows another vehicle (for example a trailer) that has a maximum gross weight of 10,000 lbs. or less. A Class D driver can tow a vehicle with a GVWR of more than 10,000 lbs only if the combined weight rating of the two vehicles is 26,000 lbs. or less. See the important information about changes for Class D drivers that result from a law that eliminates the Non-CDL Class C license.

I guess back in 2005, NYS removed the class C non-CDL license, iirc it used to be that a class D license limited me to towing 10,000 GVW. I guess with the removal of the class C, the class D inherited the 26,000 lbs GVCW.

I don't really intend to ever have more than a 3/4 ton PU truck, and my 1999 GMC K2500 is rated to tow 10,500 lbs max.

Having said all that, I don't think I'd buy a trailer over 10,000 GVW.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

I don't think the possible "issue" is with regard to having DOT numbers OR a CDL. Where you might run into trouble is simply with being overweight. You DO NOT have to be "commercial" to be required to stay with-in legal weight limits. (which CAN be based on tag limits, OR, on manufacturers weight limits of truck or trailer)

If your tow vehicle simply appears to be a business vehicle, it may put you in the position of being a commercial vehicle in the eyes of the DOT cop sitting along the roadside. I've personally experienced this phenomenon.......You MAY be able to go before a judge and beat that, but IMHO, it's far better to just avoid the issue from the get-go. Don't play Matador and wave the red cape in front of the raging bull....Once you tip the scales to "OVER LEGAL WEIGHT LIMITS" , commercail vs NON commercial is no longer the issue.


From what I see (with numbers you supplied) you'll be close on weights with JUST THE TRACTOR. Add an implement or 2 and you'll probably end up overweight on trailer. (Remember, they only need to find you overweight on ONE single axle, regardless of being below maximum weight total, or "light" on the remainder of axles) You will have the ability to scale SOME of the weight on the truck itself (tongue weight) The balance is ALL on trailer +weight of trailer itself. In MOST states, commercial vehicle enforcement officers are ALSO allowed to scale non commercial vehicles just the same. They're doing so in 3 states I operate in. (if they suspect you're over rated weight capacity)

Laws are changing fairly regularly. Many states are now requiring inspection/compliance with truck/trailers over 10,000lbs. Again, that doesn't mean you have to have DOT numbers, OR a CDL. They just require you to be "DOT legal" in all OTHER aspects. (ie weight, fire extinguisher, triangle reflectors, ect) In Kentucky, Commercial Vehicle Enforcement is currently targeting ANY truck/trailer with "rolling cargo" (ie wheeled vehicles of any type as cargo) over 10.000lbs COMBINED gross vehicle weight (truck, trailer, and cargo totaled) , regardless of commercial tags or not. The object is to stop the ILLEGAL hauling practices of many "lawn care professionals" who stuff "too small" trailers beyond reasonable limits and fail to tie down mowers.

With the likelyhood that our current "nanny state" will impose further restrictions on truck/trailer combos in the near future, even with NO current requirements, I'd think being in compliance NOW (regarding "commercial requirements" for non commercial vehicles) would be a better investment that buying something marginal (at best) and finding it "not so legal" in the immediate future.

....Not to mention I think it's just plain dangerous (and maybe a bit irresponsible) to tow right on the fine line between "legal" and overloaded. That works "OK' (at best) when everything is new and fresh, but flies out the window once tires/brakes/ect begin to wear below "new" capabilities. And "marginally heavy enough" trailers aren't the hot set-up in a panic situation, which is a common occurrence when towing in traffic.

Long story short, better to err on the side of caution. "Cheap" may not be as cheap as you think when all is said and done. Even if you use a low deck trailer, I'd make certain it's up to the task NOW, as well as in the future.

 

[rambler]

As far as the GVCW and DOT number:



So from that I read, since I don't own a business, I never need a DOT number, no matter what the GVCW is.

Depending what state you are in, some folks are running into trouble with this. If you go to a tractor pull and could win a prize of $10 or a trophy, they consider you are gaining from that activity and so you need to follow the DOT business rules. Going to a friend to mow his meadow, you are in 'business'. Gets real goofy from what I have read other places, but basically some states need to generate revinew and no longer are helpful, just want to collect money from any fine print.

Something to consider, if you _really_ are just personal use or if you are 'in business'.

--->Paul

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Depending what state you are in, some folks are running into trouble with this. If you go to a tractor pull and could win a prize of $10 or a trophy, they consider you are gaining from that activity and so you need to follow the DOT business rules. Going to a friend to mow his meadow, you are in 'business'. Gets real goofy from what I have read other places, but basically some states need to generate revinew and no longer are helpful, just want to collect money from any fine print.

Something to consider, if you _really_ are just personal use or if you are 'in business'.

--->Paul

Exactly right. It goes back to what I said in the earlier post....You may or MAY NOT be required, but if you ARE in compliance, even if you don't have to be, you might just save yourself a trip in front of the judge to plead your case.

 

[ETD66SS]

You DO NOT have to be "commercial" to be required to stay with-in legal weight limits.

Yeah, I didn't plan on being overweight...

First, you mention being a contractor

No, I'm not a contractor, I do not own a business. I'm a Mechanical engineer by day, play with toys at night. I have never taken my equipment anywhere to make money with them.

From what I see (with numbers you supplied) you'll be close on weights with JUST THE TRACTOR

I'm thinking about a 8000-10,000 GVW trailer. My tractor weighs ~5000 lbs, trailer would weigh ~2200-2500 lbs.

Add an implement or 2 and you'll probably end up overweight on trailer.

I don't think so... Maybe on a 8000 GVW trailer, but I don't own any implements close to 800 lbs...

Not to mention I think it's just plain dangerous (and maybe a bit irresponsible) to tow right on the fine line between "legal" and overloaded

I don't believe I'm doing that, even with a 8000 GVW trailer... Some of you guys seem to be telling me I need to be ~2000 lbs or something under the load rating of the trailer or I'm being "irresponsible"? Really? Is there an established non-irresponsible number to be under the load capacity of the trailer I am not aware of? Should I only ever haul 75% of what the trailer is rated for?

Loading a 5000 lbs tractor on a trailer that can haul 5800 lbs is wrong?

Anyways, this thread was more about narrowing up my 4610 as opposed to hauling safety 101, and thanks to some advice from aczlan, I found out I am able to do so 82" wide to 78" wide, with minimal fender modification, and keeping the ROPS. Good deal IMO.

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Yeah, I didn't plan on being overweight...



No, I'm not a contractor, I do not own a business. I'm a Mechanical engineer by day, play with toys at night. I have never taken my equipment anywhere to make money with them.



I'm thinking about a 8000-10,000 GVW trailer. My tractor weighs ~5000 lbs, trailer would weigh ~2200-2500 lbs.



I don't think so... Maybe on a 8000 GVW trailer, but I don't own any implements close to 800 lbs...


I don't believe I'm doing that, even with a 8000 GVW trailer... Some of you guys seem to be telling me I need to be ~2000 lbs or something under the load rating of the trailer or I'm being "irresponsible"? Really? Is there an established non-irresponsible number to be under the load capacity of the trailer I am not aware of? Should I only ever haul 75% of what the trailer is rated for?

Loading a 5000 lbs tractor on a trailer that can haul 5800 lbs is wrong?

Anyways, this thread was more about narrowing up my 4610 as opposed to hauling safety 101, and thanks to some advice from aczlan, I found out I am able to do so 82" wide to 78" wide, with minimal fender modification, and keeping the ROPS. Good deal IMO.

Yeah, whatta I know about hauling tractors on a trailer anyway.....Just that I currently own 4 truck/trailers and average somewhere near 90,000 miles of hauling/towing a year because of my business.....

You MIGHT want to consider that tractor won't weigh 5000lbs in all likelyhood. You're looking at a "dry shipping weight". Any 4000 Ford I've ever been around will hit the scales closer to 6000 without added ballast. Then you have ROPS, chains/binders, ect, plus whatever implement you're hauling with the tractor. My 6' Bush Hog weighs over 1000lbs.