Propane Question

[inphx]

I am building a residential home on the outskirts of town. Natural gas is not available. Is there some portable tanks like forklift tanks that i should consider to give me more options on where i can fill them verses having a truck (afraid of service agreement) to come to me to fill them?

I don稚 mind purchasing a few spare portable tanks because of the price variance I see at fill stations. I imagine deliver prices (I can稚 search for) are higher.

I only have 3k feet , one oven/cooktop, and heat for a low desert Arizona home. Il like the on demand water heaters and was considering electric but gas is more common.

 

[kf4uda]

If there is a Tractor Supply around you they have 20,30,40 and 100lb tanks

Manchester Tank & Equipment Steel DOT Vertical Liquid Propane Cylinder Equipped with QCC1/OPD Valve, 40 lb. - 5000403 | Tractor Supply Company

 

[grsthegreat]

Sure do...they are 100 gallon tanks. we use them to provide propane for jobsite heaters all the time.

You can also purchase your own 250 gal - 3,000 gal propane tank from any vendor. Its done all the time. Its actually required if you plan on burying your tank.

The delivery prices here in No. Idaho are exactly the same s the drive in fuel depots. They dont charge anymore to deliver here...not sure about AZ.

 

[JD 4520]

You won't (certainly should not) have to sign a service agreement if you own your own tank. I can't see that having a portable tank would make a lot of sense unless you only have to fill it a couple of times a year, if so that isn't much fuel use.

 

[bp fick]

All I can say is look into the options.

We're trying hard to get off of propane. Oh, sure, I'll probably keep some kind of propane capacity, but honestly? It's become a killer. $2.49 a gallon and going up all the time. It's painful.

 

[murphy1244]

Geothermal for primary and propane as back-up. Where you live..

 

[DutchHenryBrown]

I rented my last propane tank but then you have to buy from that supplier only. This time I purchased my own tank and can have it filled by anyone with the best price. In South Eastern AZ about 2 months ago I paid $2.56 a gal. today in the paper same supplier selling it for $2.72.

 

[om21braz]

I rented my last propane tank but then you have to buy from that supplier only. This time I purchased my own tank and can have it filled by anyone with the best price.

+1 I'd certainly take that into consideration. Suppliers in our area vary widely on price.

 

[charlz]

I switched over to wood pellets versus propane for heat a while back, propane is probably the second most expensive option after electric. I still have a propane stove/oven and can run the propane furnace for when the pellet stove can't keep up. Propane is expensive, tank rental, they jack up the price I pay $.10 for 'insurance' on their tank etc etc. Maybe you will have a good propane dealer in your area but then again maybe not. I would look at everything but propane.

I am not sure how long a 100lb propane tank will last running a hot water heater. Since you are in AZ and building the house why not look at solar thermal for hot water and maybe back that up with propane or electric? I would love to have solar thermal but it wasn't designed into my house so almost impossible to do now.

 

[CurlyDave]

I checked with all the local suppliers.

Many offered a low initial price for the first fill, but much higher prices for subsequent ones.

I finally found one who had prices competitive with with the gas stations where you bring the tank in yourself.

I rented a 500 gallon tank for $75 per year. Doesn't make sense to purchase at this rent. The tank is big enough that I fill once in August and might need 100 extra gallons to get through the winter, sometime in February. Just be sure to only order 100 gallons.

They will always try to sell you a service plan where they fill it every month. This only insures that you will buy at the highest prices possible. Buy in the summer and minimize your winter purchases.

 

[LD1]

All I can say is check around. I second what most are saying. Look into buying your own permanent tank.

But do check around with the companies in your area. In ohio here, I am on farmers coop. Their tank, but NO yearly lease and NO inflated prices. And everytime I call around just out of curiosity, they are always the lowest priced.

But everyone I know does everything possible to consume as little propane as possible. There are FAR better and more cost effective forms of heat avaliable.

Geothermal for primary and propane as back-up. Where you live..

I agree on the geo, but with where he lives, probabally would never need backup. And given that it would be a rare occurance to need B/U, I would go for electric B/U.

The key is to get a good HVAC guy. Too many companies (especially in my area) want to size the unit based on the cooling load. Well....it takes far less energy to keep a house 70 when it is 90 in the summer (20 degree differential) than it does to keep a house 70 when it is 10 outside (60 degree differential).

The result is, if you size based on cooling load, you are WAY undersized for heating. And everytime it gets below 40 outside, B/U kicks on. And if I were spending $20k on a geo unit, I'd be Pi$$ed.

If you get one adequetally sized for heating loads, you should never need backup heat with the exception of the 100 year cold snap.

As to the H/W and gas stove.....well, if you "must" have that, and are definatally getting propane, considering you will be using year round, I'd get a larger tank to start with. (Less worrying and fooling with filling) and get if from a company that does metered propane. They read the tank and give you a bill each month just like every other utility. Like you electric and water bill.

 

[Pilot]

Why not a heat pump? You get both heat and cooling and it's cheaper to run than propane. Oil is also cheaper.

There are some good propane outfits, but you have to shop around and there may or may not be any good ones in your area. Our church signed on to one of those come-on deals with a low price the first year and outrageous prices after that. I got them out of that contract; we had to pay something like $250 to get out of the contract but the payback was less than 1 year.

For our house the propane supplier we started with was OK, but then they got bought out. The new company would send a bill with a high price; we'd complain and they would knock $1 a gallon off it. We changed to a company that does things in a straightforward manner. We are looking into buying our own tank; that would run $820 but we could save about $.50 per gallon. Downside is that if you run short they won't make an emergency delivery. But then you just hook up a portable tank.

 

[grsthegreat]

I have a 3-4 yo heat pump system and i really love it. Im in No Idaho so its not the ideal location for a heat pump, but its proved its worth.

Im heating a 4,000 SF house on the system, and after initial start-up my ammeter shows a 32 amp draw. To put this in prospective, a 5,000 watt Cadet wall heater (the baseboard or wall fan assist units) will heat 1 room and cost about 20.8 amps of power. For 32 amps i heat 4,000 SF., and i can do this until the temps get to around 25-28F outside. Then it isnt very efficient.

I also get the advantage of A/C in the summer (which geothermal doesn't ). Mine has a propane backup heat source as i want my generator to power up heat in an ice storm or blackout condition.

I also have a lovely fireplace and 20 acres of free wood to heat the house when im not feeling too lazy to haul wood.

Our propane guy here is wonderful. We pay $2.29 delivered and he checks tank once a month and tops as necessary. Has for 16 years...and never have any issues with them. Wouldn't dream of using anyone else here.

 

[dfkrug]

I don稚 mind purchasing a few spare portable tanks because of the price variance I see at fill stations. I imagine deliver prices (I can稚 search for) are higher.

I just paid my highest amount Ever last month: 2.91/gal! This is a
delivered price and I own my own 125gal ASME vertical tank. If I go to my
welding gas supplier to fill my small BBQ tanks, then it was $3.21/gal.
RV or gas station suppliers are much higher.

Around here, delivered is always LESS than taking a portable tank in, and
no contract is required if you own your own tank.

 

[grsthegreat]

I just paid my highest amount Ever last month: 2.91/gal! This is a
delivered price and I own my own 125gal ASME vertical tank. If I go to my
welding gas supplier to fill my small BBQ tanks, then it was $3.21/gal.
RV or gas station suppliers are much higher.

Around here, delivered is always LESS than taking a portable tank in, and
no contract is required if you own your own tank.

yikes..thats like $1 more per gal than we pay... calif sure sucks :laughing:

 

[sriddle1ny]

grsthegreat,

I'm with you, just filled my 500 gal tank last week @ $1.90 per gal + the rental on that tank is $25.00 per year however, we're in AG Country where everyone uses it....

 

[Hughman]

I was in year 2 of a 3 yr contract with Suburban. Called for my first refill and they quoted me $4.70/gal. Needless to say I am no longer with suburban. The early termination fee was way cheaper than their price/gal.

 

[GPintheMitten]

I have never used propane but I did have a ground water heat pump in Michigan. It kept our 2000 sq. foot 2 story house warm in the winter and cool in the summer.

We used the well water and dumped the water out behind the house. In your area, you would probably have a closed loop system buried in the ground.

I recommend you look into that and solar. With electric stove and electric back up, you wouldn't need any propane.

 

[Pilot]

Wannaberetired,

It was Suburban our church had. When I told them we were switching and they shouldn't make any more deliveries, they hurried out and filled the half full tank, billing at about $4.60 per gal. When they came to pick up the tank, they said it was empty. It wasn't and I had taken a pic of the gauge when the tanks were switched out by our new provider. We went back & forth on that & we refused to pay. They sent me a copy of the load ticket which showed the tank was empty, but strangely enough, it showed they picked up another tank which they also said was empty. Then I talked to our new supplier & he said it was illegal for them to haul a partially full tank down the road, and that Suburban would have had to send someone out to empty the tank before they could haul it. When I presented Suburban with that info, that we were on to their scheme and sent them the pic of the gauge, dated, they caved.

 

[inphx]

Thank you all that have replied. Lots to think about.

For hot water I will have solar, for HVAC it will have a hybrid heat pump if i pull the trigger on propane.

So the gas would feed a cooktop and two on demand water heaters (to spice up the hot water if needed or to deal with lag from tank to shower).

It's interesting that delivered is about the same as depot/pump prices.