Stick welding question

[deereman75]

Well I have yet another stick question. I am wondering what the rule for rod size to base metal thickness is. Also, I would say I am a hobbiest welder at best, so any tips regarding practice will help a lot. (I hope to be considered a good welder someday...)

 

[strum456]

Well I have yet another stick question. I am wondering what the rule for rod size to base metal thickness is. Also, I would say I am a hobbiest welder at best, so any tips regarding practice will help a lot. (I hope to be considered a good welder someday...)

I have a book that says rod diameter should never exceed material thickness and material thickness should not exceed 2x rod diameter. I have always used this rule with success.

 

[deereman75]

I have a book that says rod diameter should never exceed material thickness and material thickness should not exceed 2x rod diameter. I have always used this rule with success.

Thanks, that will help me a lot. I assume that is only for single pass welds though. I cant see needing a 1/4 rod to weld 1/2 inch multi pass.

 

[rhett]

The Book....

That refers to a single pass capability.

90 percent of most field work is done with 1/8" 7018 as filler. Thickness of material requires multiple passes, then a cap.

6010 is the preferred rod for the root pass because of dig.

Yup, a 1/8" rod repairs beyond 12" thick steel.

Sheet metal and thin stock require smaller rods. Larger rods are only used for production purposes.

 

[deereman75]

The Book....

That refers to a single pass capability.

90 percent of most field work is done with 1/8" 7018 as filler. Thickness of material requires multiple passes, then a cap.

6010 is the preferred rod for the root pass because of dig.

Yup, a 1/8" rod repairs beyond 12" thick steel.

Sheet metal and thin stock require smaller rods. Larger rods are only used for production purposes.

Ok that makes sense. I guess the only rods I really need are 7018 1/8, and 6010/6011 1/8, and some 3/32 6011s for thin stuff.

 

[rhett]

Ok that makes sense. I guess the only rods I really need are 7018 1/8, and 6010/6011 1/8, and some 3/32 6011s for thin stuff.

Yes 1/8" 7018 rocks

6013 for the thin stuff though

 

[deereman75]

Yes 1/8" 7018 rocks

6013 for the thin stuff though

Ya I guess 6013 is better for thin, I just cant get a good weld other then a butt weld with them. I bet after burning a few more # of them I will be able to get good welds with them.

 

[dstig1]

Have you tried going EN with the 6013 on thin stuff? It helps over EP. And move fast.

In general the guidelines as stated by previous posters are spot on for the home hobbyist types. Using 1/8 rod on 1/8" steel is difficult. It is much easier to step down to 3/32, no matter which rod you pick for the situation. As stated, this gets to be silly once you get above 1/4" metal, but a great many hobby projects are done in the 1/16"-3/16" range, and for those, you want to use smaller rods. Yes, I know it is hard to get even 1/16" rods, but that is what small MIGs were created for

 

[Shield Arc]

I'd say unless you're working to a WPS, there are no rules! It's what ever you can handle. But when you get out on the job site and everybody is running 5/32 7018 vertical up hill and you're running 3/32 you'll have to work through lunch, and stay late to keep up!:laughing:
I think my hobby shop is pretty well set up, I have maybe a 5# box of 1/16 rod under the rod oven, and maybe 15 #s of 5/32 7018 left over from a project. I mostly have 3/32, and 1/8 6010 / 11, and 7018. But I do have a can of 3/16 6010 to wake up those SA-200s when they've been setting awhile.

 

[deereman75]

Have you tried going EN with the 6013 on thin stuff? It helps over EP. And move fast.

I wish I could, but all I have right now is a lincoln ac only tombstone. I will hopefully be getting a dc welder before too long. Really looking at the old PowCon machines, many say they last forever.

 

[Haywire]

There's SA bragging again about his little 'hobby shop' that just happens to have professional production equipment in it. LOL

Ian

 

[k0ua]

I have used the 1/16 6013 for thin sheet metal with pretty good success, but now that I have started TIG welding I dont think I will be doing much of that anymore, TIG is just so much more control on thin work, with much prettier results. I am still on my first bottle of argon, so I am not a TIG welder yet, but I am getting there, So far I like it, I am just doing Lift start with my PA160, so no HF start, no foot pedal, no post flow etc.. but it works. Of course now I can see the value in a real dedicated TIG rig with all of those features but Lift start on any DC welder works, and you can make nice welds with it with some practice. Getting lots of good practice grinding tungsten too!:laughing: When you mess up and jam your filler rod into the tungsten and get that nice big wad on your tungsten.. yummy.

James K0UA

 

[Shield Arc]

There's SA bragging again about his little 'hobby shop' that just happens to have professional production equipment in it. LOL

Ian

Oh it's a hobby shop! That shop has been standing 11-years now, and I haven't made a dime off of it. But I've spent a few dimes getting it to where it is now.

 

[Sockwell]

FWIW, Miller sells a set of slide cards for stick, MIG, Flux Cored and TIG that are about $3 each. I had the dealer throw in a set with the last machine. They also have a free download on their website that will give recommended starting points for the processes. For the download, you select the process, material, and rod type. It then lists the recommnded settings.

 

[strum456]

Thanks, that will help me a lot. I assume that is only for single pass welds though. I cant see needing a 1/4 rod to weld 1/2 inch multi pass.

Yes, that is single pass capacity. For farm/automotive use, I use 5/32 6011s for my thickest repairs. For me, 1" steel is the thickest I will ever have to worry about. I love 6013, for 1/4 or 3/8 material. I use my mig for anything thinner.

 

[rankrank1]

Ok that makes sense. I guess the only rods I really need are 7018 1/8, and 6010/6011 1/8, and some 3/32 6011s for thin stuff.

With your Lincoln AC 225: Forget the 6010 as it is DC only and stick with 6011 for deep penetration and rusty stuff. Of course to further confuse things: 50% of welders like to weld really thin metal with small 6011 diameter electrodes and use its fast freeze characteristics while the other 50% will prefer to use 6013 and its limited penetration properties for really thin metal. Long story short: you will get conflicting opinions on what is best arc rod to use on really thin metal in lieu of a wire feeder.

Here is what I do know: 6013 is certainly more readily available in more smaller rod diameters than other rod types.
a) 1/16" diameter is easily found in 6013 (I have also seen 1/16" for 6011 and 7014 too although it is somewhat harder to find). The downside: I find 1/16" diameter rods sometimes hard to work with though due to being really flimsy. I sometimes cut them in half to stiffen them up and make them easier to work with.
b) 5/64" diameter is very useful diameter, but I have only ever found it in 6013 from Lincoln. 5/64" rods are a little shorter in length and not flimsy so easy pretty easy to work with. The one downside to the 5/64" diameter is it costs more per pound to buy than either 3/32 or 1/16 diameters so reserve its use to applications for thin metal and only when truly needed. Still a useful rod to stock if you do not have a wire feeder as were only talking a few dollars to have it and it stores easily without a rod oven.

I started out with a Lincoln AC225 just like yours and I only stocked 3 rod types in small quantities:
a) 6011: 3/32 and 1/8 diameters
b) 7014: 3/32 and 1/8 diameters
c) 6013: 1/16, 5/64, and 3/32 diameters
Although I do have DC capability now in the form of a Miller Thunderbolt AC225/DC150, I still stock the exact same rods as these same rods burn equally well on AC or DC and all store well without rod oven requirements - so in essence these rods cost me nothing to keep around.

For those very rare applications that I weld some exotic alloy steel then I will buy a small pack of 7018AC when needed, hillybilly dry them out in a salvaged toaster oven as none of the small packages of 7018AC are properly sealed at the stores - only the large tins seem to be sealed properly and I will never use that many rods. I am not going to make or buy a rod oven and spend $150 or so a year in electricity to run it to store my excess 7018 - simply an expensive luxury that I do not need for the stuff that I weld.

 

[rankrank1]

Oh it's a hobby shop! That shop has been standing 11-years now, and I haven't made a dime off of it. But I've spent a few dimes getting it to where it is now.

As well as stacked a few dimes of welds in it - LOL.

 

[Haywire]

Sounds like you're trying to be practical. Unfortunately, I am rarely practical when it comes to my hobbies. If I ever accidentally come across one of those 10lb rod ovens at a great price (under $40), I will probably buy one and buy some 7018 from someone that uses it regularly and stores it right so I don't have to wonder about the new-but-wet stuff. Practical? Nope. Do I need it for my piddling? Heck Nope. Will I do that just to say I have properly stored 7018? Probably. LOL

Ian

 

[deereman75]

With your Lincoln AC 225: Forget the 6010 as it is DC only and stick with 6011 for deep penetration and rusty stuff. Of course to further confuse things: 50% of welders like to weld really thin metal with small 6011 diameter electrodes and use its fast freeze characteristics while the other 50% will prefer to use 6013 and its limited penetration properties for really thin metal. Long story short: you will get conflicting opinions on what is best arc rod to use on really thin metal in lieu of a wire feeder.

Here is what I do know: 6013 is certainly more readily available in more smaller rod diameters than other rod types.
a) 1/16" diameter is easily found in 6013 (I have also seen 1/16" for 6011 and 7014 too although it is somewhat harder to find). The downside: I find 1/16" diameter rods sometimes hard to work with though due to being really flimsy. I sometimes cut them in half to stiffen them up and make them easier to work with.
b) 5/64" diameter is very useful diameter, but I have only ever found it in 6013 from Lincoln. 5/64" rods are a little shorter in length and not flimsy so easy pretty easy to work with. The one downside to the 5/64" diameter is it costs more per pound to buy than either 3/32 or 1/16 diameters so reserve its use to applications for thin metal of only when truly needed. Still a useful rod to stock if you do not have a wire feeder as were only talking a few dollars to have it and it stores easily without a rod oven.

I started out with a Lincoln AC225 just like yours and I only stocked 3 rod types in small quantities:
a) 6011: 3/32 and 1/8 diameters
b) 7014: 3/32 and 1/8 diameters
c) 6013: 1/16, 5/64, and 3/32 diameters
Although I do have DC capability now in the form of a Miller Thunderbolt AC225/DC150, I still stock the exact same rods as these same rods burn equally well on AC or DC and all store well without rod oven requirements - so in essence free to me to keep around.

For those very rare applications that I weld some exotic alloy steel then I will buy a small pack of 7018AC when needed, hillybilly dry them out in a salvaged toaster oven as none of the small packages of 7018AC are properly sealed at the stores - only the large tins seem to be sealed properly and I will never use that many rods. I am not going to make or buy a rod oven and spend $150 or so a year in electricity to run it to store my excess 7018 - simply an expensive luxury that I do not need for the stuff that I weld.

I am planning to upgrade to a powcon inverter as my main welder soon. Either a 200 sm, or 300 sm. The nice thing about the sm ones is that they have both cc and cv output, so I can hook up a wire feeder to do mig/fcaw. I am waiting for a reply from arc products for a price for a 200 sm. They are very nice dc machines, that are said to last forever, and be super hard to kill. (a bunch of them went through a flood, they cleaned the mud out, and they worked like new) Once I get DC, my normal rod will be 7018. (even on my tombstone now, my fav rod is 7018ac) I am planning to build a rod oven soon, but that will be another thread.

 

[rankrank1]

Sounds like you're trying to be practical. Unfortunately, I am rarely practical when it comes to my hobbies....

Well, You are correct in that welding is only a hobby for me. I too have hobbies that I am much less practical with in regards to splurging with costs (ATV'ing, camping, antique tractors, dining out, etc.).

I probably could put more money towards welding, but it would be at a cost somewhere else in my budget that I am not currently willing to sacrifice. In cracks me up when all the retired people mention living on a fixed income. I am in my 40's and working, but my income is fixed too and there is still only so much money to spread around.

Heck I spent the first 30 plus years of my life without a welder and tinkering on junk and making improvised repairs with clamps, wire, pop rivets, bolted scab plates, etc in lieu of welding. I was in heaven when I obtained the ability to weld even at my rudimentary skill level.

Until my equipment becomes the limiting factor in my welding processes then I do not see myself upgrading any. Until I can utilize the equipment that I have to its full potential then no need to upgrade as my skills are currently the limiting factor not the equipment.