New Kubota Factory

[5030]

The MEDIC has been giving away the farm for a number of years in tax incentives, however, the business tax climate has offset any tax incentive. Companies look at the 'whole picture' not just the tax rollback. That coupled with Michigan's poor performance in education goes against companies locating here, especially companies that require employees with techinical expertise.

The auto plants were "put a part in a hole and send it on sown the line", who cared if it was installed right because I'm union and you can't fire me for my performance without a long and deliberate process of documentation, and then having to deal with the union.

The downturn of the auto industry has changed not only the educational climate but the financial climate and Michigan need to adapt and that is a long slow process.

We are long past... 'you get out of high school (or don't complete high school and your dad or his brother gets you a job making 50 grand or so at an auto plant', when in fact, you can't even tie your shoelaces, let alone be a productive citizen, one reason the unemployed numbers are so high here.

A lot of those people are unemployable.

 

[Scooby074]

The welding on both loaders is at best, cobbly, not something that would be acceptable in Japan by a long shot. I'm in the welding business and I would never consider the sloppy welding on the loaders to be commercially acceptable. The welds are structurally strong but appearance wise, are poor and as I stated, the paint is unacceptable.

I'll take a Japanese built loader any day over the domestic counterpart.

I agree. Id LOVE to see a direct comparison between the crappy (but apparently strong) welds on my loader to a JDM machine.

I know the Japanese wouldnt put welds out like this in their home market. The Japanese consumer wouldnt stand for it, nor would the plant's QC let it leave.

 

[300UGUY]

Michigan's problems stem from a not too friendly state government attitude toward business, in other words, a business tax that strangles business plus no worthwhile tax incentives to locate here, all things that the new governor is trying to change.



Japanese worker unions differ greatly from unions here, especially in work rules.

Don't forget that Japan has been in financial doldrums for the last 15 years, similar to what we now experience. We all exist on the same globe so what goes around, comes around.....

Is there a tax incentive that will overcome cheap labor? The state has offered to build plants for manufacturers, but were politely declined. If free facilities and labor costs that are actually below average for the country haven't got any traction, I don't see what will. I worked with some Japanese machine tool companies, their folks were very good, better educated than our tradesmen here. And I agree, we all live in the same economic world now.

 

[BethesdaEC]

Unions are the problem. Period.

Please note that there are zero unions in Japan. The reason being is the people take pride in their work both individually and as a whole. They don't need a union to negotiate for often sub-par and overpaid workers.

Just because the Japanese don't have US labor unions doesn't mean that they don't have Japanese labor unions.

Here is a the PR web page for Kubota's Union.
Kubota Labor Unions

Here is an example of from Toyota.

Toyota Accepts Japan Labor Union?s Request to Raise Pay, Bonuses - Bloomberg

If you look at my previous post from this thread (quoted above) you will see that Japan does have unions and they are quite strong.

 

[don white]

I thought Kubota had been making some tractors in the USA? I also thought JD was making some tractors overseas?

I have worked in industry for 30 years. In union shops and nonunion. On the shop floor and as a supervisor. There is nothing wrong with Americans workers I would put them up against any in the world. If bad welds are being produced then there is a process problem. If the paint is falling off then there is a process problem. If parts don't fit then there is an engineering problem. Blaming the worker for quality problems is real lame. Insuring quality is a management function. I have never experienced workers who wouldn't work and do good work when instructed and properly managed.

The crappy cars that were made in the 70s were because of bad management. The worker on the floor has no input as to the quality of steel used. The cars rusted out in 5 years. Now come on whose fault is that.

Just the way I see it.

 

[Pixguy]

I support paying parents for their kids performance in school. Then little Jonny might have a fire under his arse at home.

That's the problem, we need to spend MORE money on education....

The crappy cars that were made in the 70s were because of bad management. The worker on the floor has no input as to the quality of steel used. The cars rusted out in 5 years. Now come on whose fault is that.

I have an uncle who worked for GM(plant now closed) and it was widely known that you should not buy a car built on friday afternoon(workers were not paying attention) or monday morning.(hung over)

 

[lilranch2001]

That's the problem, we need to spend MORE money on education....

How much more frikken money should we spend on education?

:confused2:

 

[bunchgrass]

That's the problem, we need to spend MORE money on education....

How much more frikken money should we spend on education?

:confused2:

My point is who needs to be "motivated" not whether or not we should.

 

[Cat_Driver]

...Unions are the problem. Period.

Please note that there are zero unions in Japan. The reason being is the people take pride in their work both individually and as a whole. They don't need a union to negotiate for often sub-par and overpaid workers.
kinglake is offline Report Post Reply With Quote

Absolutely !!!!! Unions are killing this Country. Unions had their place decades ago, but no more.

Here are some obvious facts. Everything anyone needed to build a vehicle was in Michigan, so all these dozen or so manufacturers that built new plants down South, should have done it in Michigan. Why didn't they - U-N-I-O-N-S, Period, case closed.

The South is flourishing, and I mean REALLY flourishing because the Unions forced all the manufacturers to GO SOUTH.

OH SURE, you can complain about $15.00 an hour jobs when Unions Workers get $50.00 and in some cases $75.00 an hour plus benefits. But you know something $15.00 an hour is better than $0.00 an hour and that's what the the people in Michigan are earning because the plants are in the South. So what good did the Unions do for Michigan?

Unions had a lot to do with US Companies going to Mexico just as well.

Now I'm not stupid enough to not know Corporate greed is in the Mix, but Unions were and are Killing manufacturing in this Country a lot more than greed is.

 

[Cat_Driver]

..I have an uncle who worked for GM(plant now closed) and it was widely known that you should not buy a car built on friday afternoon(workers were not paying attention) or monday morning.(hung over)

Or after Lunch Monday through Friday because the workers are all drunk or high.


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVmKyJXHXRE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XVmKyJXHXRE[/ame]

 

[lilranch2001]

My point is who needs to be "motivated" not whether or not we should.

huh??

 

[lilranch2001]

You might be frightened to know how many workers (union and not) drink on the job.

once apon a time maybe, but even management in todays world do not drink at lunch typically anymore

 

[newbury]

Trying to formulate an intelligent response to stick in this thread I was waiting for a comment on our work ethics.

Or after Lunch Monday through Friday because the workers are all drunk or high.

and

<snip>
The auto plants were "put a part in a hole and send it on sown the line", who cared if it was installed right because I'm union and you can't fire me for my performance without a long and deliberate process of documentation, and then having to deal with the union.

And "send it sown the line" reflects the quality control we have come to accept.

As JT wrote:

<snip>
While teaching the College classes I discovered that many of my (older adults) students couldn't do simple math to determine the square feet in a home that they were going to try to sell. I thought I'd just teach them some simple math.................gave that up after a few hours.
<snip>

The "average" requirement for graduation with the "no child left behind" (NCLB) mentality means teachers are pressured to ensure that students that can't count their toes must graduate elementary school or it's the teacher's fault. And the parents will sue.

Only people without a basic understanding of math can accept the concept that "All the children are above average" when it's the entire nation we are talking about.

I recently retired and 50% of my job for about 35 years was teaching US Army "map makers" or what used to be called Terrain Analyst (now it's Geospatial Engineer). After a few years of "NCLB" I was getting reclassed students that had problems trying to find where a point was on earth given the coordinates (if they did not use a computer). I'd give them a coordinate like 122 North and 47 West. (NOT a TYPO see below).

And as Martan wrote:

<snip> Most of the jobs they have are $12/hour and people have decided they would rather sit at home and take unemployment than to get a job and advance themselves. <snip>

If they had to "sit at home" with no entertainment they'd probably go back to work
In order to get unemployment one probably had to work for 2 quarters (26 weeks). And it pays about half of what you made per hour. With the current 99 weeks of unemployment payout that means one could get a 2 year vacation at half wages

I call that retirement.

And as Grandad wrote:

Doesn't this thread just exemplify the sour mood so many people are in these days? Starts out with news about a plant opening with more jobs. Hard to be against that, but somehow we've succeeded.

A) Third-hand rumor about wages, totally unverified, (Post #11) launches an avalanche of complaints, which triggers spin-off complaints about high CEO salaries, unions and politics.
B) Then someone gripes it's not a "real" manufacturing plant because it's only doing assembly; then same person does a 180 backflip and complains that quality is sure to go in the dumper because product will no longer be made overseas.
C) Then another guy gripes that someone made bad welds on his tractor so obviously this new plant is going to be nothing but bad news.
D) Another guy comments on all the complaining and gets told to take a hike.

Sheesh. Well, here's hoping everyone has a nice holiday in whatever manner lifts your spirits. Glad for whoever finds work at that new plant or anywhere else. Hope the place is a great success. If you really have a problem with that, well Merry Christmas anyways. Cheers.

A new factory (that's what this thread started on) should be a source of joy.

Those that complain that the job will "only pay $xx /hr" or "it's not American made" benefit from the price competition for EVERYTHING they buy that can be imported.

There is a Toyota plant going in near where I'm retiring, where the unemployment rate has been high for decades due to closing of clothing factories. It brings lots of spin off factories also (parts etc). It's raised the cost of raw clearcut land by about double (to $1500/acre). But more people will be able to afford land. I suspect that similar will happen in Georgia.

With the gradual "dumbing down" of the American population it has become increasingly easy to criticize ANYTHING that is even slightly complex and requires more than a television commercial's span of attention.

NOT a TYPO - if you didn't catch it there are no coordinates NORTH or SOUTH of 90 degrees

 

[BethesdaEC]

Absolutely !!!!! Unions are killing this Country. Unions had their place decades ago, but no more.

Here are some obvious facts. Everything anyone needed to build a vehicle was in Michigan, so all these dozen or so manufacturers that built new plants down South, should have done it in Michigan. Why didn't they - U-N-I-O-N-S, Period, case closed.

The South is flourishing, and I mean REALLY flourishing because the Unions forced all the manufacturers to GO SOUTH.

OH SURE, you can complain about $15.00 an hour jobs when Unions Workers get $50.00 and in some cases $75.00 an hour plus benefits. But you know something $15.00 an hour is better than $0.00 an hour and that's what the the people in Michigan are earning because the plants are in the South. So what good did the Unions do for Michigan?

Unions had a lot to do with US Companies going to Mexico just as well.

Now I'm not stupid enough to not know Corporate greed is in the Mix, but Unions were and are Killing manufacturing in this Country a lot more than greed is.

Those hourly rates are not what a line worker makes, that is the labor cost to get an hour of work done. An employee gets 10 holidays and 15-20 vacation days, they have sick leave and training. now throw in insurance social security, retirement etc. I am not saying that unions are good but that is a distorted number used by the auto industry to make the unions look bad. IIRC they typically make 20 to 40 an hour. Most employees cost 30-50% more than the salary.

 

[EHR]

I am 51 years old and want to buy American. I own a Jeep CJ7. But I also have a Volvo wagon and a Honda Civic Si. American manufacturers lost me years ago. They were making more than $12 an hour but the cars were crap. I bought a 1986 BMW 528e 16 years ago with 162k on it. I drove it till it hit 300K, minimal expenses for it and 30mpg with five people in it. I paid $3400 for it and sold it for $1800.
America is building better stuff but I know of two Duramax trucks that when they hit 100k they both needed pumps and injectors.

 

[5030]

I agree. Id LOVE to see a direct comparison between the crappy (but apparently strong) welds on my loader to a JDM machine.

I know the Japanese wouldnt put welds out like this in their home market. The Japanese consumer wouldnt stand for it, nor would the plant's QC let it leave.

The Japanese perfected their craft over the years. I remember the crappy welds on early 70's Honda motorcycles that looked like bird poop, at that time we were turning out excellent weldments but now the tables are reversed. It's amazing but it's brought about in part by the philosophy of quantity versus quality at any cost......

Is there a tax incentive that will overcome cheap labor? The state has offered to build plants for manufacturers, but were politely declined. If free facilities and labor costs that are actually below average for the country haven't got any traction, I don't see what will. I worked with some Japanese machine tool companies, their folks were very good, better educated than our tradesmen here. And I agree, we all live in the same economic world now.

Not really, we'd like to think that we aren't on a level playing field with the world, but are a cut above. In fact, we have a ways to go to become 'World Class, loosely translated to 'Turning out crap for sweatshop wages'. Americans in general are having a great deal of trouble adapting to that scenario despite Obama's constant push in the direction and I don't see any candidate foistered by either party (with the sole exception of Ron Paul) that has a different philosophy.....

That's the problem, we need to spend MORE money on education....

How much more frikken money should we spend on education?

:confused2:

In this country, 'education' has become a joke, perpetrated by the stranglehold the teachers unions have on their respective employers. It's not at all about 'more money', it's about 'Value received for that money spent'. We, as a whole, aren't getting a fair and equitable return for the tax dollars spent on education. If teachers, in general, were compensared for actual productivity, they would be paid at minimum wage because they are minimally acceptable as educators today

Absolutely !!!!! Unions are killing this Country. Unions had their place decades ago, but no more.

Here are some obvious facts. Everything anyone needed to build a vehicle was in Michigan, so all these dozen or so manufacturers that built new plants down South, should have done it in Michigan. Why didn't they - U-N-I-O-N-S, Period, case closed.

The South is flourishing, and I mean REALLY flourishing because the Unions forced all the manufacturers to GO SOUTH.

OH SURE, you can complain about $15.00 an hour jobs when Unions Workers get $50.00 and in some cases $75.00 an hour plus benefits. But you know something $15.00 an hour is better than $0.00 an hour and that's what the the people in Michigan are earning because the plants are in the South. So what good did the Unions do for Michigan?

Unions had a lot to do with US Companies going to Mexico just as well.

Now I'm not stupid enough to not know Corporate greed is in the Mix, but Unions were and are Killing manufacturing in this Country a lot more than greed is.

You'll see a gradual reversing of that as the 'good old boys' realize that unionization means better wages and benefits. It's happening right now. It's all about greed and not just corporate greed either, but the individual greed.... and of course the philosophy of turning out more production and to heck with quality. Unions still have a place in the American workplace because the union protects the American workers rights and provides a safe working enviroment, just what a union, all unions are supposed to do. Employers will take a mile of whatever they can get, when they can get it. That's how business works, always has, always does.

What is killing American Manufacturing is the central government and their stifling rules and regulations, not the unions. It's all a plan by this administration (and previous administrations) to 'level the playing field' and be more competitive in a global economy, at the expense of you, the individual. You need to wake up and smell the petunias before they rot.....

You might be frightened to know how many workers (union and not) drink on the job.

You'd be appaled to know how many non union workers drink at lunch as well. Booze is a national pastime

I am 51 years old and want to buy American. I own a Jeep CJ7. But I also have a Volvo wagon and a Honda Civic Si. American manufacturers lost me years ago. They were making more than $12 an hour but the cars were crap. I bought a 1986 BMW 528e 16 years ago with 162k on it. I drove it till it hit 300K, minimal expenses for it and 30mpg with five people in it. I paid $3400 for it and sold it for $1800.
America is building better stuff but I know of two Duramax trucks that when they hit 100k they both needed pumps and injectors.

You are one of the population that contribute to the very condition you complain about. Until you and everyone else embrace American made products, good or bad, this country will continue on the same path it's on now and you, along with everyone else will suffer. having the 'pass it on down the line' attitude and being complacient will get you nothing except more grief.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Since this had gotten way off track I'll post this:

My father is in the recruiting business. Recently they've seen a huge spike in business. They are expected to triple their 2011 projection. The biggest problem they are having is people don't want to work. Most of the jobs they have are $12/hour and people have decided they would rather sit at home and take unemployment than to get a job and advance themselves.

I can echo that we've experienced this oursevles, heard it from our customers, and even had a customer annouce to our entire showroom that he was milking unemployment. I would have said I was very against illegal immigration, but I find more and more that I think we need the labor force since our own people simply won't do the work.

Wouldn't it be great if the unemployment office handed out any open job before handing out checks. Why do we let so many jobs sit vacant while people are collecting?

 

[sunnyside360]

Wouldn't it be great if the unemployment office handed out any open job before handing out checks. Why do we let so many jobs sit vacant while people are collecting?

You have a good point but I don't know how rampant it is. I do know for fact there are those out there who have been unemployed since 2008 and collecting unemployment benefits and don't want to go back to work. And, when congress delays appropriating more money for them collecting they get very upset. The economy is bad and I'm afraid it's also growing the lifetime welfare population.