Purging milky oil from system

[Dakota_male]

I changed out my plow lift cylinder rod last week and found some moisture when draining the hydraulic out. I only have 60 hours on my MF1635.

So suspect my moisture came in the breather tube, my tractor only sat outisde a few week this year. I will add a desicante air breather when i change over to amsoil in a few weeks to reduce the moisture drawn in when the transmission is heated and then cooling from everyday use or even operating the 3 point lift would change the volumn when used too.

Velcon Filters do make cartridges to remove water from oil and fuel that work very effectively they even make filters to remove carbon from oil.

Desicante filetrs are used on almost every large electric transformer you see to keep moisture out because they are cooled by oil and radiators too.

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. SA cyl's with breathers, and vented sumps in 'open' systems allow moisture in.

I have seen a few closed sump systems with built in air expansiona nd burp valves that will allow excess vapor or fluid to escape a pinch valve, but not allow outside air to be introduced on a regular basis.

soudnguy

 

[SpringHollow]

The place i purchased my water absorbing filters does not show up but these look like they are the ones i bought to clear some water from new oil that got contaminated. I have not used them yet so i can not say how well they work.

http://www.hydraulicstore.com/index...tory]=&data[catalog]=1&data[itemcode]=3980299

Mine were AQUASHIELD 511H10 I believe

Ken

 

[Redneck in training]

Well, consider this, the Soviet Air Force used alcohol as the hyd's for the MIG-25's aircraft brakes, had trouble keep enough supply as a lot of the maintenance people were often seen staggering around the base.


The MIG-25 fighter-bomber which needed 14 tons of jet fuel and a half ton of alcohol for its braking systems, was for this reasons known in the Soviet air force as the flying restaurant.

Fighter aircraft up to the MiG-29 and Su-27 had a braking system that used 99% pure grain alcohol as hydraulic fluid. .

The ground crews would steal the stockpiles of alcohol - imagine that - and that often the planes were grounded

I believe it. I worked in Russia in many occasions. They would drink anything with alcohol in it such as aftershave, colon etc. They rate booze by "punching power/ruble". The stronger and cheaper the better. The "industrial" alcohol was somewhere between 92 and 96%.
When I was in military we also had alcohol for cleaning but with gasoline added so it was not drinkable. Guys used to filter the gasoline out of it passing it through gas mask filter.

 

[Skyco]

I think the cost to recover emulsified fluid would be greater than it is worth. Acids have already formed.

Although you could cook the fluid until the water vaporizes, the water in the emulsified fluid has already made some new compounds, and I don't believe it would be worth it to cook any where from 3 to about 10 gal of fluid.

They make fluid recovery sys, but they are expensive and are usually used on large hyd system, 100 gal +.

A fluid analysis would tell you about the quality of the fluid, and recommend things to do.

Depends on how long the water was in there. The OP stated he just refilled it and was prepared to do it again with new fluid.
I think heating the oil with water in it would be far cheaper than to keep replacing the fluid until it is clear.
Heat, rinse, repeat until clear, then chuck the oil....
I'd certainly try it before I chucked the 4 gallons of new oil!

 

[Labrador Coaster]

Like the idea of heating/separating the oil/water

With 2 oil changes I have at least 15 gals ''spoiled''. As JJ mentioned there will be some residual oil left in the system even if I drain it all down again. I will reuse the heated oil to give the system a more thorough cleansing ( I also have a hyd. marine Pullmaster winch hooked into this system...).

Then once I git er all flushed, I will replace the oil with new stuff.

thanks fellas,

Wilson

 

[J_J]

Just a little reading material for those wanting to remove water from hyd fluid.

You can do it, but at a regulated temp, but for $39.00 for 5 gal of hyd oil, you have to ask your self if it is worth it to drain your fluid and cook it , and how long to cook.

Options for Removing Water in Oil

 

[Soundguy]

even cheaper.. tractor supply generally has runs of cheap utf oil, which is better than plain hyd oil many tyimes, for 20-25$

hard to recoup money on cleaning old oil when new oil is 20$ for 5g


soundguy

 

[Labrador Coaster]

I'm paying 45-50$ for a 20 liter bucket( 4.5 gal) Walmart.

Did a real idiotic move this afternoon.... In a rush to use my winch I disconnected the quick connect, ( with the motor running, seized everything up in short order. after reconnecting there was oil pouring out of the bottom of my pump A single stage VICKERS vane model.

I removed it and found that it had opened slightly between the vane section and the end of the unit and an oil seal was sticking out thru..

I feared for the worse, loosened the 4 bolts, removed the end of the pump eyed everything up, stuck the o-ring back where it belonged and ''bobs your Uncle''. I had forseen that this stupid mistake might occur, ( I have the quick connect directly on the pump), I will look at how I can ensure this does NOT happen again.

In the meantime.. I boiled up a test sample of oil on the stove, ( while my wife was at work...) it reached at temp. of 175 degrees, was beginning to stir in the pot, white bubbles etc. I shut her down at that point, no separation, will try a higher temp ( 250 as suggested- in my shop.)

 

[Soundguy]

yep.. qd's at a pump are a way to blow things apart. if you like haveing a qd at the pump, put a relief inbetween them at least with a blow line aiming down.

walmart has expensive cheap oil, as cheap oil goes. tractor supply is the place with the cheap, cheap oil.

I wager you will spend more $$ in electricity or heating costs to TRY to recover some 'used' oil, than buying new, clean oil...

soundguy

 

[Redneck in training]

Temperature will not separate the water and oil. You have to boil (evaporate)water off.

 

[pat32rf]

In my younger days I used to get water in the ATF on my 4x4's. A brisk drive down the highway on a hot day always cleared it up.
You won't be able to heat the mix above 212F until the water has boiled off. Ask anyone who has run a still.... 212F should not be hot enough to damage the oil.

 

[Labrador Coaster]

Yeh' perhaps it's better if I use it to light my fire in the shop instead of trying to recycle it.

Unfortunately I am limited in my choices of where to buy things like oil, I live in an isolated region of Canada, it's all by ship or plane.

Last week I ordered a Makita drill combo set from Princess Auto- Newfoundland ( St Johns). The postage with Canada Post was 65.00$ !

I am curious, as we all know oil and water just don't mix, after reading the articles that JJ posted I will monitor to see if it separates ''naturally'' with gravity. I'll see -30's this winter, I would think that water should freeze?

 

[Skyco]

In the meantime.. I boiled up a test sample of oil on the stove, ( while my wife was at work...) it reached at temp. of 175 degrees, was beginning to stir in the pot, white bubbles etc. I shut her down at that point, no separation, will try a higher temp ( 250 as suggested- in my shop.)

You won't see separation, at a temp a little above the water boiling point you will see water vapor rising and fluid should lose the milky look.

 

[Skyco]

I wager you will spend more $$ in electricity or heating costs to TRY to recover some 'used' oil, than buying new, clean oil...

I'll take that bet. Ever see a turkey fryer? Doesn't cost that much to get a lot of oil above water's boiling point

 

[Skyco]

In my younger days I used to get water in the ATF on my 4x4's. A brisk drive down the highway on a hot day always cleared it up.
You won't be able to heat the mix above 212F until the water has boiled off. Ask anyone who has run a still.... 212F should not be hot enough to damage the oil.

+1:thumbsup:

 

[Skyco]

even cheaper.. tractor supply generally has runs of cheap utf oil, which is better than plain hyd oil many tyimes, for 20-25$

hard to recoup money on cleaning old oil when new oil is 20$ for 5g


soundguy

Problem is he'll buy new oil several times to get the moisture out of the system, he already changed it once (4 gallons) without fixing the water issue...

 

[J_J]

You might drain 4 or 5 gal of emulsified fluid, but the new oil will mix with the old 1/2 gal of water saturated fluid still in the cylinders, and lines /hoses, and it will also look milky with in about an hour of changing.

 

[Soundguy]

I'll take that bet. Ever see a turkey fryer? Doesn't cost that much to get a lot of oil above water's boiling point

add in labor and the cost of a good cooking stock pot that can't be used for cooking again.. and refigure.

mind you if he lives in some place that they have to deliver stuff by polar bear, moose or camle, then 'maybee' it's cheaper to dewater the oil than get new.

I guess i'm fortunate to have a store that sells 20-25$ cheap utf oil 15 minutes from my house / 5 m from my work.

soundguy

 

[J_J]

I agree with Soundguy on replacing the fluid thing.

Even if you could boil all the water out, you are still left with the other compounds that hae been generated by the water combining with all the other chemicals in the fluid. How would you even know when all the water is gone. If this principle of cooking the fluid to remove the water was that good, and cheap, I am sure a lot of people would be doing it.

Perhaps someone on TBN will cook up about 4 gal of water saturated fluid that has been in a tractor hyd tank for about 6 mo, and then send it to a hyd testing lab and post the report, I think you will understand not to take the risk of reusing the fluid.

Not only that, a lot of the add in's have been depleted by the chemical action of the water. I am sure someone can remove just about all the water with heat, centrifuge, absorbing, etc, but it is only economical for the large 100+ gal users.

I have a 20 gal hyd tank on my machine, and I would hate to replace all that fluid. So far, the fluid looks like new fluid, and I don't think any PT owners have had trouble with water in the hyd fluid. By the way, we use 10W-40 as the hyd fluid on our Power-Trac's.

Some may say but why use motor oil, and all I can say is that it has proven itself since about early 90.

I know of other large hyd machines that also use motor oil as the hyd fluid. I believe it can take more heat that most standard hyd fluids.

My Case skidsteer uses 10W-40 plus a qt of Case additive, or Hytrans fluid. So apparently someone has found out what works best, and just sticks with that product.