Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[leonz]

About the grass slicer knives for your new flail mower; I have not checked to see if it is still made, but WEN Inc., made or still makes a small wet well knive grinder which gives an excellent slicing edge for the flail mower knives and does not ruin them by getting them too hot and should not be used for the hardened and carbide coated knives.

Flailmaster carries their knives now but I am unsure for which Caroni Flail mower.

You should have some on hand as otherwise you will have to strip the other three corresponding knive row sets of knives off directly following the broken set if one set is broken to maintain a balanced flail motor rotor at all times.

The Caroni Grass slicers are not stamped with a slotted hanger hole and are not capable of creating an airfoil surface while mowing/verticutting and you may experience more mounting pin wear if only one knive is left on the knive hanger.

It is better to err., on the side of caution and remove the 4 knive sets if one knive is broken or leave two knive sets directly opposite each other at the three and nine o'clock or six and twelve o'clock on the 4 row finish mowers rotor.


I will double check my notes but I think the V-Belt(s) are the B43 size and the Gates, TSC, Mcmaster, Kaman, NAPA Green belts have Kevlar thread which reduces the shock loading on the V-belts. Be sure to obtain V belts that are from the same manufacturing lot number which is molded into/printed on the V belt flat cross section.


____________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[KYThrill]

Looks like the Alamo isn't going to work for me. I will be mowing very overgrown fields (typically 6 feet or taller weeds but nothing really big). If anything I mow is bigger than 1" in diameter, then it is hollow. The used Alamo unit is a fine cut unit, which uses a different rotor than the course cut unit.

Knives are sized differently as well, so it doesn't look like you could really convert a finish to course (unless you could find a course knife that was sized the same as a fine and skip every other clevis mount).
The fine cut doesn't have a clevis though.

But I guess the Caroni actually has more blades than a fine cut Alamo. Is anyone using a 1500 FSC to mow big fields in place of a rotary cutter? With Agri-Supply, it really looks like t he TM1900 is their course cut model and a TL1500 is fine cut.

 

[leonz]

Looks like the Alamo isn't going to work for me. I will be mowing very overgrown fields (typically 6 feet or taller weeds but nothing really big). If anything I mow is bigger than 1" in diameter, then it is hollow. The used Alamo unit is a fine cut unit, which uses a different rotor than the course cut unit.

Knives are sized differently as well, so it doesn't look like you could really convert a finish to course (unless you could find a course knife that was sized the same as a fine and skip every other clevis mount).
The fine cut doesn't have a clevis though.

But I guess the Caroni actually has more blades than a fine cut Alamo. Is anyone using a 1500 FSC to mow big fields in place of a rotary cutter? With Agri-Supply, it really looks like t he TM1900 is their course cut model and a TL1500 is fine cut.

About the mowers;

There is no reason you could not take two rows
of opposing grass slicers off the Caroni 1500MM
if you wanted to do that.

and add them back after you are done rough cutting to get a
better finish with less power using all four knive rows.

A fine cut flailmower will be a better mower for
brush as it will knock it all down.

____________________________________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[KYThrill]

Do you think you could convert the Caroni to an extended duty setup like available from Alamo?

Basically, the Alamo unit has a course cut rotor (similar to a Caroni B rotor), a fine rotor (similar to a Caroni F rotor). However, for Alamo's fine rotor also is available with a ring mounted knife, which is what they call their "extreme service" option. You can see the parts on the link below.

MONTAGE ENTERPRISES - MOTT FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES, ALAMO FLAIL MOWER PARTS & BLADES

Two 102650's hold a 101991 ring. Two knives (101993) go on the ring.

I think if you setup a Caroni this way, it would bridge the gap between the bolt mounted blades on a TL1500 and the clevis mounted blades on the TM1900. Or I wonder if you could even find a small clevis and blade that might work too?

 

[DirtHauler]

I own and use two Caronis for the past 6-7 years now, 1600"F" and a 1600 "B". My main "money maker" is the "B" rotor which is more universal (48 blades) and gives a great finished look and I constantly cut thick tall vegatation up to 7' to a finished cut of 2". The "F" rotor, with 96 blades total, I use for second/third mowings or on land that has sparse or thin grass/weeds. I've tried using it on tall/thick stuff but with so many blades to recut the grass/weeds it tends to jamb up the rotor which leads to belt burning BUT if you go at very slow pace it could be used.
I've included a few pics as to what the "B" will achive.

 

[KYThrill]

I own and use two Caronis for the past 6-7 years now, 1600"F" and a 1600 "B". My main "money maker" is the "B" rotor which is more universal (48 blades) and gives a great finished look and I constantly cut thick tall vegatation up to 7' to a finished cut of 2". The "F" rotor, with 96 blades total, I use for second/third mowings or on land that has sparse or thin grass/weeds. I've tried using it on tall/thick stuff but with so many blades to recut the grass/weeds it tends to jamb up the rotor which leads to belt burning BUT if you go at very slow pace it could be used.
I've included a few pics as to what the "B" will achive.

I've wondered if a 1600 is too big for a 25HP engine/22 HP PTO tractor.

I know Caroni says 30+ engine HP for the 1600, but an Alamo is the same cut width, weighs more, and their ratings say the 62" is suitable for a 20-40 HP tractor.

I like the idea of a 1600B for the wider cut, triple belts, and clevis blade mounts.

 

[IslandTractor]

I've wondered if a 1600 is too big for a 25HP engine/22 HP PTO tractor.

I know Caroni says 30+ engine HP for the 1600, but an Alamo is the same cut width, weighs more, and their ratings say the 62" is suitable for a 20-40 HP tractor.

I like the idea of a 1600B for the wider cut, triple belts, and clevis blade mounts.

Caroni's HP recommendations are very conservative IMO. If I owned a 30hp tractor, I'd still buy the TM1900 so the 1600 shouldn't be a concern for 25hp. You might go a little slower in heavy grass but the tractor will handle it.

 

[beppington]

For comparison, my L3940 has 31.5 PTO HP, & it runs the TM1900 great in even tall, thick stuff. Granted I mow at what I consider to be a "reasonable" speed, not bouncing off the seat, but moving along nicely. I think it mainly comes down to how fast you want to mow.

 

[KYThrill]

What are your opinions on a TM1900 BSC behind a New Holland TC25D? I called Agri Supply about a TM1600 BSC, they called Italy to get a price/timing and came back with a 6 month delivery time. I can wait a month and maybe stretch it to two, but no way I can go beyond a two month wait.

I know my tractor has a small motor at 25 HP, but it has a 22 HP PTO. The motor to PTO ratio is really good on this tractor by comparison to other tractors. I know some of the Mahindra 28 HP tractors only have 21.7 PTO HP. I wish Caroni didn't rate by motor HP because that just muddies the water because of the variety of transmissions.

I have 14 extremely overgrown acres of rolling pasture (most spots are 7 feet tall; you can actually lose you pickup if you aren't careful) to maintain. After the first cut, I will be cutting it monthly thereafter during growing seasons. The field is mostly alfalfa, clover, tall fescue (K31), and the tall stuff is some kind of grain, maybe rye (I'm not sure, just that its a grain). It has been a hayfield since before I was born, but now its going to be site to my new home and personal playground.

So could my little tractor handle the TM1900BSC if I slow cut this first time and then cut monthly thereafter (probably nothing taller than a foot then)? Or am I just asking for lots of trouble with this line of thought?

My other concern is, what if I buy another tractor in the future. I almost bought a L4300 Kubota ($11k w FEL @ 240 hours) but I do too much loader work and it was a gear transmission. But I could see myself going bigger if a good price came along in the future. I wold hate to have implements that are too small then.

 

[beppington]

KYThrill: I think you would want to rent or borrow a bush hog for the first mowing (or two). And, then if you'll keep to your monthly schedule the TM1900 should be OK. Again, it's mostly about mowing speed. Go slower & you can mow the same stuff with less HP. I'd especially get the 1900 if you think you might get a larger tractor.

 

[leonz]

Good evening,


I would call Ken Sweet or contact him via a PM

here on the forum as he is forum sponsor in good standing

and ask him about his flail mower lines; I recall that he

carries The Italian SICMA flail mowers?, and Diamond flail mowers.

Ken also ships nationwide directly from his warehouse in Kentucky.

 

[IslandTractor]

Tough call. There is the HP issue and also weight. No doubt the 1600 is ideal for 22PTO HP and that the 1900 is a stretch. Still there might be ways of managing. First cut with a bush hog is one solution. You could also see how removing a balanced number of blades from the end of the rotor. You'd still need to pull the mower through the uncut grass but wouldn't use HP actually cutting as much. And, another option, you can also just put the tractor in low and just go slowly with the full set of knives.

I would not be concerned about hurting your tractor, just that it might be slow going. You would be at high risk of wanting to upgrade the tractor too.

 

[beppington]

Tough call. There is the HP issue and also weight. No doubt the 1600 is ideal for 22PTO HP and that the 1900 is a stretch. Still there might be ways of managing. First cut with a bush hog is one solution. You could also see how removing a balanced number of blades from the end of the rotor. You'd still need to pull the mower through the uncut grass but wouldn't use HP actually cutting as much. And, another option, you can also just put the tractor in low and just go slowly with the full set of knives.

I would not be concerned about hurting your tractor, just that it might be slow going. You would be at high risk of wanting to upgrade the tractor too.

As for weight, we run the TM1900 flail mower with the roller riding on the ground, so it's carrying a lot of the weight (~600 lbs total IIRC). Do you not do that?

 

[IslandTractor]

As for weight, we run the TM1900 flail mower with the roller riding on the ground, so it's carrying a lot of the weight (~600 lbs total IIRC). Do you not do that?

I understand the weight is on the ground but it is still a fair amount heavier than most implements pulled by a 25hp tractor. Wider too. My concern was just that the physical size/weight was an issue.

Again, I'm not arguing not to try the TM1900 but just to be aware that it might be a bit awkward.

 

[KYThrill]

I understand the weight is on the ground but it is still a fair amount heavier than most implements pulled by a 25hp tractor. Wider too. My concern was just that the physical size/weight was an issue.

Again, I'm not arguing not to try the TM1900 but just to be aware that it might be a bit awkward.

I don't know that weight would be an issue. I currently haul around a 540 pound tiller all the time that I use as ballast for the FEL (plus fluid in the tires). 650 pounds doesn't seem that much more and the 3pt easily has the lift capacity (over 1500 pounds).

Depending on the offset, I guess it could get a little awkward to pull around (and garage). I know my tractors rear track is about 64". How much is the TM1900 offset? Can it be centered? I guess if it we offset 2 feet, I would have 3-3.5 feet of mower sticking off the side.

I know the TM1600 is a much better fit, I just hate the wait.

 

[beppington]

I don't know that weight would be an issue. I currently haul around a 540 pound tiller all the time that I use as ballast for the FEL (plus fluid in the tires). 650 pounds doesn't seem that much more and the 3pt easily has the lift capacity (over 1500 pounds).

Depending on the offset, I guess it could get a little awkward to pull around (and garage). I know my tractors rear track is about 64". How much is the TM1900 offset? Can it be centered? I guess if it we offset 2 feet, I would have 3-3.5 feet of mower sticking off the side.

I know the TM1600 is a much better fit, I just hate the wait.

The TM1900 can be offset about 18" or "almost" centered, which means it sits to the right a little more than the left, maybe 4 inches IIRC.

 

[whirly]

Hi, I'm new here by have read "almost" all of the posts in this thread ...Whew... and haven't found my answer yet.

I have just one question before I pull the lever on a CARONI TM1900BSC.

Can this mower be used with or adapted for a Cat II 3pt?

I have asked the folks at AgiSupply but they just reply with "the literature doesn't indicate what Catagory 3pt".

 

[TDVT]

I have just one question before I pull the lever on a CARONI TM1900BSC.

Can this mower be used with or adapted for a Cat II 3pt?

I don't know why not.

It uses the standard open-ended implement mounting pins. I know I've seen some pins that were a Cat2 pin with a Cat1 threaded section, I even think Agri-supply sells some. Those would bolt right on.

You might have to mod the top link as the Caroni yoke is the right width for a Cat1 link (unless Cat1 & Cat2 are the same width, I don't know).

The standard spacing for Cat1 lift arms is 26", the standard for Cat2 is 32" but of course they have quite a bit of swing.

Also the way the Caroni is made, there are two pin positions for changing the offset (about 7"). I measured mine & if you used the two outer pin positions your pin spacing would be around 33".

Of course I've not tried it since I don't have a Cat2 tractor handy.

Hope that helps.

TD

 

[leonz]

Why are you worried about a category 2 hitch
when all you have to do is change the pin sizes
or reposition the lower link arms if needed?

I believe every new mounted implement
sold now is category 2 so no worries
there anyway.

The dual lower mounts make it easy to attach
to the lower links and you can unscrew the
top link if needed.

The issue is more of having the extendable/moveable/
unthreaded lengths and correct eye bearing bushings
width for the top link spacing or the slot.



________________________________________
Once you go flail you never go back:thumbsup::licking::drool:

 

[TDVT]

Also the way the Caroni is made, there are two pin positions for changing the offset (about 7"). I measured mine & if you used the two outer pin positions your pin spacing would be around 33".


TD

I realized after I posted that, that your top link wouldn't be centered if you used the two outer mounting points.