Flail Mower Let's talk flail mowers

[dmiletich]

I just bought a used 7'4" Rears Pak-flail. Rather than having the round pipe at the rear, it has small baloon tires at the rear corners. I called the dealer and was told that Rears sells them either with the pipe or rear tires for the same price. When they are used in orchards or vineyards, or anywhere that they make long straight mowing runs, they usually use the mowers with the pipe in the back. The ones with tires in the back like mine are used for mowing smaller areas where you do a lot of turning, which is what I do. My question is when looking at the back, because there is no pipe, there is quite a gap. Since I have not used it yet I do not know how much material it will kick out which is a concern since I mow around houses. I surely do not want to be knocking windows out. Is there anything that is made that will cover that rear gap, such as the heavy rubber flap there is in the front, or would this cause some other unforseen problem?

 

[IslandTractor]

. My question is when looking at the back, because there is no pipe, there is quite a gap. Since I have not used it yet I do not know how much material it will kick out which is a concern since I mow around houses. I surely do not want to be knocking windows out. Is there anything that is made that will cover that rear gap, such as the heavy rubber flap there is in the front, or would this cause some other unforseen problem?

It depends a bit on whether your mower cuts forwards or backwards to determine which way debris would be thrown. I'd imagine you can figure that out pretty quickly. Putting a rubber dam on the back should be pretty easy though. You could use the same material that is sold by Woods for that job and you'd probably need to fabricate some sort of frame out of angle iron to attach it to.

 

[leonz]

I just bought a used 7'4" Rears Pak-flail. Rather than having the round pipe at the rear, it has small baloon tires at the rear corners. I called the dealer and was told that Rears sells them either with the pipe or rear tires for the same price. When they are used in orchards or vineyards, or anywhere that they make long straight mowing runs, they usually use the mowers with the pipe in the back. The ones with tires in the back like mine are used for mowing smaller areas where you do a lot of turning, which is what I do. My question is when looking at the back, because there is no pipe, there is quite a gap. Since I have not used it yet I do not know how much material it will kick out which is a concern since I mow around houses. I surely do not want to be knocking windows out. Is there anything that is made that will cover that rear gap, such as the heavy rubber flap there is in the front, or would this cause some other unforseen problem?

Congratulations,:thumbsup::drool::laughing:

You are our one thousandth poster with the "Lets Talk Flailmowers" thread.
NO I did not count my posting-

The gap is simply the rear edge of the shrouds/mower hood; the flail rotor spins opposite the direction of travel slicing the grass and carrying it over the rotor and throwing it back to the ground, so no worries; But if you are concerned-

You can add a flap of thick sheet metal stock or rubber from a cow stall mat to the rear as an additional barrier as long as its slightly above the ground level.

You will need the following-

Two pieces of strap iron 1/8" thick, one inch wide by 7'6" long to secure the sheet metal or rubber flap from a new cow stall mat from TSC for example

You will need patience, a long straight edge, and a good sabre saw to cut the cow mat as they are thick rubber.


The bolts should ideally be 1/4 inch socket heat cap screws(allen head) one inch long fine thread 24 thread per inch, 1/4" nylock nuts 24 threads per inch.

Before you buy the socket head cap screws be sure the grass slicer knives clear the hood by at least 3/8" of an inch.

You can drill the strap steel by clamping both pieces together prior to measuring and pin punching the drill holes.

You will be able to clamp the rubber or sheet metal between the straps and drill the holes for bolts after you drill the strap iron pieces to maintain the same spacing.

You will be able to clamp one piece of strap iron to the rear portion of the hood and drill the mounting holes easily as well.

BUT before doing all this I would mow with it to see how the grass flows over the rotor and down back to the ground as thats how all the flail mowers work except the ones that mow and discharge forward like the high flailmowers.

 

[KennyV]

...Is there anything that is made that will cover that rear gap, such as the heavy rubber flap ...

Just get a chunk of conveyor belting ... cut to fit & bolt it on... done.

 

[dmiletich]

Thanks for all the ideas. I have one other question. When I engage it there is a little vibration. I looked at the blades and some appear to be worn. I plan to take them all off and replace all, but was wondering if when I get them all off if I run the machine with no blades in order to see if there is still a vibration, which I suppose would indicate a bent rotor. Is this OK to do or not?

 

[KennyV]

Without anything hanging on it it should spin free and smooth...
The knives can be folded up when you first start and not spin out for a second or so... KennyV

 

[GinNB]

Best way I've found to check for a bent rotor is visually. Stand back about 10 feet and visually line up one long "edge" of the rotor with either the frame or the bottom roller while someone else spins the belt pulley slowly. It'll be quite obvious, especially near the middle where the bend usually is.

 

[IslandTractor]

I would imagine you could check for a bent rotor with a straight edge even without removing all the knives. I don't recall that bent rotors are common though. It is the roller bearings that wear out and requure replacement most often. A bent rear roller is more common after snagging on a stump or rock.

Initial vibration is pretty common but it usually smooths out as you increase rpm. Missing blades is probably the most obvious cause of abnormal vibration.

 

[North Country]

Obligatory: Just finishing reading the whole thread!


Any updates from the Chinese/Betst folks? How are they holding up entering year 3?

 

[sweettractors]

Just got a good old made in USA Used 6 ft flail in for $595. Ken Sweet

 

[North Country]

Another question - most folks on here seem to have picked up the 1900BSC (6ft cutting width.) The "B" drum is not an option on the 59" flail (the largest I can run) but the "P" drum (fewer blades, spoon-type with shackles) becomes an option. Both the "A" and "F" drums are still options.

For a lawn that doesn't need to look like pebble beach as well as a rough field that is absolutely, positively loaded with small hidden stumps & rocks - which drum would you choose? I'd like to get a flail so I can tame my rough field, get another under control, and get rid of the 62" MMM. Aside from hidden stumps, I won't be cutting anything larger than 1" and the rough & steep terrain requires no more than minimum forward speed in the fields.

 

[IslandTractor]

Another question - most folks on here seem to have picked up the 1900BSC (6ft cutting width.) The "B" drum is not an option on the 59" flail (the largest I can run) but the "P" drum (fewer blades, spoon-type with shackles) becomes an option. Both the "A" and "F" drums are still options.

For a lawn that doesn't need to look like pebble beach as well as a rough field that is absolutely, positively loaded with small hidden stumps & rocks - which drum would you choose? I'd like to get a flail so I can tame my rough field, get another under control, and get rid of the 62" MMM. Aside from hidden stumps, I won't be cutting anything larger than 1" and the rough & steep terrain requires no more than minimum forward speed in the fields.

I'm not sure the P drum is actually available in the USA at least through AgriSupply which is the main importer. Have you checked specifically or relied on the Caroni website?

I have the B rotor and would choose it for your application which is similar to mine. How big is your tractor? If you cut regularly and are not using it as a bush hog, a 30hp tractor would run the six foot B rotor version. You might need to slow down in heavy grass but a smaller tractor can definitely run that mower.

 

[North Country]

I haven't reached anyone at AgriSupply yet - I was looking at the Caroni website. The B model isn't listed in that size, and AgriSupply doesn't list the B as stocked. They only list the "F" (*NOT* what I want) in the 59" and 48". "B" would be my preference if available. I won't cut anything that hasn't been cut in the last few years, and things just don't grow that fast up here. Lawn will be cut every 10-14 days and the field every month or two.

I have a 24hp, JD 2305. 72" is out of the question; it's a 48" or 59". Even if I can run a 59" (Caroni's website says yes, as well as the 4hp/ft rule) I may get a 48" for size. I have some tight spaces. That will be a tough decision as the 59" is only $50 more than the 48"!

Slowing down in heavy grass isn't a problem. I never use high range if I'm not on my roads; my land is just too steep & uneven. I go walking speed or less at all times when I'm not on the lawn. Hopefully things will be smoother in a few years, but they're not right now.

 

[North Country]

The decision unfortunately got a lot easier. Pay now, have the special order Caroni delivered in August. That's going to be some very tall grass...

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the "heavy duty" Betst/Value Leader 48" flail. I am having them replace the Y blades with the hammer/spoon blade. In stock, will be here next week just in time for the first cut of the year.

 

[IslandTractor]

The decision unfortunately got a lot easier. Pay now, have the special order Caroni delivered in August. That's going to be some very tall grass...

I went ahead and pulled the trigger on the "heavy duty" Betst/Value Leader 48" flail. I am having them replace the Y blades with the hammer/spoon blade. In stock, will be here next week just in time for the first cut of the year.

Should work just fine. Be aware that flail mowers require more preventive maintenance than rotary cutters. Learn to grease rotor bearings and drive shaft components before each mowing (or if you are organized after every four hours or so of mowing). When you feel unusual vibration stop and check you haven't lost a knife/hammer.

 

[IC Smoke]

It quit raining finally! I had to catch up on a few lawns so I had my hired guy knock out my field at home!

Ford 861 Powermaster and Ford 907 Flail mower (7' offset)

 

[TerryR]

I'm looking at a flail mower to replace my 60" bushhog squealer. I mow about 4 acres of hillside, moderate to fairly steep, twice a year. So I cut grass a foot or two tall, heavy in places, and briers and locust trees half an inch or so in diameter, new growth. I have a JD 870, rated at 28 hp, and run in 3rd gear (1.5 mph, according to the chart on the fender). The next gear up is nearly twice as fast, and uncomfortable on my terrain.

The issues I mainly want to address are 1) the grass run over by the tires largely isn't picked up by the bushhog, so it pops up a couple of days later, and 2) I get quite a windrow of cut grass left along one side, enough to kill the grass under it in places. It would also be nice to reduce the scalping caused by dips in the ground in some places.

I know a flail will address the windrow issue, and help with the scalping. But does it do better with picking up the downed grass in the wheel track? One post said you need one with forward rotation for best results on that count.

I see a lot of interest in the Caroni TM1900 here, and that sounds good. I'd like to pick up the extra foot of cutting width, but I see Caroni suggests 30 to 60 hp for all the TM models. Can I expect my 870 to handle the TM1900?

AgriSupply says it has "rear rotation" - does that mean it rotates the opposite of tractor wheels? If so, can I expect it to pick up the grass downed by the wheels?

If I'm willing to pay more than the price of the Caroni, can I get something that will do a noticably better job for me?

Terry

 

[leonz]

I'm looking at a flail mower to replace my 60" bushhog squealer. I mow about 4 acres of hillside, moderate to fairly steep, twice a year. So I cut grass a foot or two tall, heavy in places, and briers and locust trees half an inch or so in diameter, new growth. I have a JD 870, rated at 28 hp, and run in 3rd gear (1.5 mph, according to the chart on the fender). The next gear up is nearly twice as fast, and uncomfortable on my terrain.

The issues I mainly want to address are 1) the grass run over by the tires largely isn't picked up by the bushhog, so it pops up a couple of days later, and 2) I get quite a windrow of cut grass left along one side, enough to kill the grass under it in places. It would also be nice to reduce the scalping caused by dips in the ground in some places.

I know a flail will address the windrow issue, and help with the scalping. But does it do better with picking up the downed grass in the wheel track? One post said you need one with forward rotation for best results on that count.

I see a lot of interest in the Caroni TM1900 here, and that sounds good. I'd like to pick up the extra foot of cutting width, but I see Caroni suggests 30 to 60 hp for all the TM models. Can I expect my 870 to handle the TM1900?

AgriSupply says it has "rear rotation" - does that mean it rotates the opposite of tractor wheels? If so, can I expect it to pick up the grass downed by the wheels?

If I'm willing to pay more than the price of the Caroni, can I get something that will do a noticably better job for me?

Terry

Hello Terry and welcome to the forum;

I would contact ken sweet here on the forum and inquire about his Sicma line of flail mowers with cup knives as he is a sponsor of the tractorbynet forum in good standing and he ships from his warehouse as well.

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When the folks at Agri supply tell you its rear rotation
the flail mower rotor rotates opposite the direction of travel in forward.

If you are facing the Caroni flail mower on the left side the flail motor rotor is
traveling clockwise at work.

which slices the brush and lifts it over the rotor and back down to the ground.

The issue with your mule is power and stability
at all times with your terrain.

I do not think it would be safe for you and your tractor to use the TM1900 as it will be under
powered and with your ground conditions a smaller width flail mower will be easier to manage
and a smaller flail will take it down to sod just as easily for you, it will just take a bit more time
to police the mowed area but you will have very good control of the invasives and poison ivy, sumac,
and poison oak types of woody brush.

With your terrain it will be easier for you to back up and drive down due to the steep grades with the flail mower.

Any flail mower purchased will be shorter in overall length
if it is mounted to the three point hitch versus the total
housing length of a rotary brush cutter.

A flail operated at speed will pick up matted grass and
brush when driven forward and in reverse and chop it a
second or third time to total shreds to compost easily.

The added benefit of a rear or front mounted flail mower
is that it will suction up the previously cut grass and brush
and cut it again a second or third time for you without
batting an eyelash as the knives are essentially airfoils
creating huge amounts of lift which lifts up the grass and
cuttings.


The flail mower rotor on heavy flail mowers used for
roadside verges and banks rotate in the direction forward
travel to keep from tossing any possible debris at vehicles
approaching from the rear.

A standard flail mower can operate in either forward rotation or
rearward rotation strictly depending on the manufacturer and the
ability to offer this option for grass cutting which depends on
pulley placement and V belt routing under the belt shroud.


With your tractor ad terrain it would be safer for you to purchase
one of the 48 inch units being the TL1200PSC with a P rotor which
carries the scoop knives and still offers a decent cut or or a B rotor
but you may have to wait a while for one of them unless one of
the other stores in the chain has one and can ship it to you.


Many three point hitch flail mowers in Europe are front mounted on tractors
using a "standard rear rotating drum mower" which will throw the grass
clippings forward as the front or Mid P.T.O., will be operating in the opposite
direction which in turn will cast the clippings out and avoid packing the radiator
full of fresh grass clippings which is possible due to the flail knive having two
cutting edges per knive and two knives per hanger which allows this flexibility.

The scoop knives are essentially that- a scoop with a cutting edge that creates a
huge amount suction over the width of the flail motor rotor.

I would seriously chat with ken Sweet as he is one of our fine sponsors and ask if
he has any of his Sicma line in stock with the scoop type knives as the scoop type
knives are more resistant to damage and still offer an excellent cutting of brush
and sod with a bit of a waffle pattern as there are fewer knives on the this type
of flail mower rotor.

 

[TerryR]

Hello Terry and welcome to the forum

Thanks, Leonz,

I would contact ken sweet here on the forum and inquire about his Sicma line of flail mowers with cup knives as he is a sponsor of the tractorbynet forum in good standing and he ships from his warehouse as well.

I've looked at his website and find no trace of the Sicma line, but I've dropped him a note to inquire.

The issue with your mule is power and stability at all times with your terrain.

I do not think it would be safe for you and your tractor to use the TM1900 as it will be under powered and with your ground conditions a smaller width flail mower will be easier to manage...

With your terrain it will be easier for you to back up and drive down due to the steep grades with the flail mower.

Why is that the case with a flail and not with the rotary I've been using?

A flail operated at speed will pick up matted grass and
brush when driven forward and in reverse and chop it a
second or third time to total shreds to compost easily.

But will a reverse rotation unit really pick up the grass matted by the wheels? Solving that is the primary reason for looking for something new. When I talk to the folks at Rears they suggest I'll have better luck with forward rotation.

With your tractor ad terrain it would be safer for you to purchase
one of the 48 inch units...

If that's the case I'm afraid I'll stay with my rotary - I don't have any interest in going to a narrower cutting width.

Terry

 

[leonz]

I mentioned the narrower flail mower only on the basis of smaller mower wieght.

ken carries the Sicma line and another brand of flail mower.

The TM1900 may work well if you have front wieghts and loaded tires
or just loaded tires.


If you have any slope that is 15 degree's or greater in rise and run it is better to back up the slope and drive down the slope to avoid the chance of an end over end roll over. Your rotary hugs the ground making a wide foot print in square footage of contact if you lower it to the side rails and drag it up and down.


Matting the brush down in forward lays the heads of the weeds forward and the flail knives will shred in either direction of rotation as most kn ives are double edged except for the scoop knives as they can shear in one direction.

They may have suggested the forward rotation simply from the perspective of hidden stumps and exposed roots that the mower rotor may encounter throwing the debris forward if it is very large in size to avoid jamming the rotor and tearing up the the V belts.

The key to good shredding of brush with a flail is slow speed and lowering the mower all the way to the ground to hug the sod.