Flail Mower chain for top link, flail mower

[allen in texas]

Oh, and another thing you apparently don't realize Larry - is that there's no tail wheel on a flail mower.

//greg//

Wow. My thread back on the first page.

You are correct that there is no tail wheel on a flail.

However...
My flail has an 8 inch diameter roller the full width of the flail that it rides on. I carry no weight on the tractor. I just set the flail on the ground, three point all the way down and go. It floats along nicely on the terrain riding on the rear roller.
Like I said in my very first post, If I used a chain for a top link, my flail would flop over forward onto the PTO shaft unless I did carry some of the weight with the lift arms.
Then if the tractor went over a bump, it would try to lift the flail.
If the tractor went into a hole, the nose of the flail will fall down.
Perhaps my flail is different than everyone else's.

 

[greg_g]

When the toplink is attached to the mower, the mower wheel will raise up when your rear tractor wheels crest a hill.

Another one. You're talking rotary cutter. We're trying to have a flail mower discussion here. No tail wheel on a flail mower !!

//greg//

 

[greg_g]

My flail has an 8 inch diameter roller the full width of the flail that it rides on. I carry no weight on the tractor. I just set the flail on the ground, three point all the way down and go. It floats along nicely on the terrain riding on the rear roller..

Yup, every flail I've ever seen works that way. What's confusing the issue here are some rotary cutter folks who've clearly never owned or operated a flail mower

//greg//

 

[sodamo]

Yes. It will. Perhaps you don't understand the principle of "floating". The more you lengthen the distance between the upper and lower lift arms, the more the TPH will float. Short version; get your lower lift arms as close to the dirt as possible - low enough where you have to LIFT THEM UP to attach to the implement. This is done with the adjustable vertical links and/or moving them between/among the various pin holes on the lower lift arms. The more the implement is permitted to float, the less it gets picked up off the ground when cresting hills, and vice versa

Oh, and another thing you apparently don't realize Larry - is that there's no tail wheel on a flail mower.

//greg//

Thanks for informative description. There is an area on my PTO control lever marker "Mower Float". Of course, in that position my mower doesn't even touch the ground. Maybe now I know how to adjust LOL.

 

[Heavyduty]

Another one. You're talking rotary cutter. We're trying to have a flail mower discussion here. No tail wheel on a flail mower !!

//greg//

Sorry, you don't have to be an arse about it.:thumbsup:

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yes. It will. Perhaps you don't understand the principle of "floating". The more you lengthen the distance between the upper and lower lift arms, the more the TPH will float. Short version; get your lower lift arms as close to the dirt as possible - low enough where you have to LIFT THEM UP to attach to the implement. This is done with the adjustable vertical links and/or moving them between/among the various pin holes on the lower lift arms. The more the implement is permitted to float, the less it gets picked up off the ground when cresting hills, and vice versa

Oh, and another thing you apparently don't realize Larry - is that there's no tail wheel on a flail mower.

//greg//

Wrong. Flails do have a tail wheel. Otherwise they could not be floated without cutting a full width furrow in the ground until you ground the knives and the skirts off. Some flails do not run a full rigid toplink, but instead have some free motion built into the top mount so that the rear can rise and fall somewhat around the holdpoint at the ball eyes. Bushogs use this type of setup too. If you are going to float either one of them a fully rigid toplink is a necessity unless they have wheels front and back to support them independent of the tractor.
larry

 

[greg_g]

Wrong. Flails do have a tail wheel.

Photo please. If you can't find one, perhaps you'd point out to us a "tail wheel" in the photos below.

The only thing I can think of that might equate to a tail wheel on a flail mower would be those very very very few owners that might have invested in optional gauge wheels. Or perhaps those huge corn stalk flails that require carriage wheels for getting to/from the fields.

//greg//

 

[jake98]

Sorry, you don't have to be an arse about it.:thumbsup:

Don't start flailing at each other!

 

[SPYDERLK]

Photo please. If you can't find one, perhaps you'd point out to us a "tail wheel" in the photos below.
//greg//

Its that long round thing on the back of each that is free to rotate about an axle. A roller is just a special case of the inclusive wheel concept.
The non rigid toplink attachment option is shown in the 1st photo.
larry

 

[greg_g]

Uh-huh. So you consider the roller to be a" tail wheel". Right. This now necessarily begs the question; how many times have you actually used a rear TPH flail mower? Or even seen one operate (anywhere other than attached to highway department tractor)?

What you're calling "that non-rigid toplink attachment" by the way, is actually a floating toplink bracket, just like I described above !!

Anyway. Help me out here. I've lost track of what point or points - if any - that you're actually trying to make, relative to using a chain in place of a toplink for a flail mower.

//greg//

 

[SPYDERLK]

Uh-huh. You consider the roller to be a tail wheel. This now begs the question; how many times have you actually used a rear TPH flail mower? Or even seen one operate?

What you're calling "that non-rigid toplink attachment" by the way, is actually a floating toplink bracket, just like I described above !!

But I'm now having a hard time figuring out what point or points - if any - that you're actually trying to make here?

//greg//

I havnt counted. Weve had a Rears flail with hydraulic side shift for several years now. It has a non rigid toplink attachment that is not easy to defeat so Iv lived with it. It has some beneficial application, but I would prefer the option for either the lost motion or the rigid setup, and will do a mod one day to allow it.
larry

 

[mojoinco]

So, moving on to the subject...bought one last summer (8') and have had the pleasure of gouging with the roller (for the sake of argument, it equates to a fixed wheel in concept, thereby tearing up the ground when it is turned). I think I will end up putting some castered wheels on mine (got a couple of old wheel barrel wheels laying in the shed I think). Or maybe use the front axle on an old riding mower (the rod exited the crankcase stage left). That might make a real good front caster wheel assembly. The flail came with a top link that has an oval link hole at the implement end, and a very over sized link hole at the 3ph end. I don't wish to bash up or break my tph (nor anything around it) so took it off in favor of the standard top link. BUT -- no more float (and I have hilly areas).

I think I added one more project to my list of 267 projects. But I can move it up in priority by using up parts off of the derelict mower! I smell sparks in the air and transformers buzzing as I type.... And I want some trailing caster wheels for the rear (maybe use the rear wheels for that). For what it is worth, I use mine for rough mowing pasture, fence line, and driveway (mostly keeping down some noxious weeds).

 

[Dead Horse]

Oh, and another thing you apparently don't realize Larry - is that there's no tail wheel on a flail mower.

//greg//

Yer right, cause it is not called a tail wheel......... it is called a roller, and functions the same way.


Oh yeah, and I may be in the minorety here, however, your tone is quite insulting.

 

[greg_g]

he rigid setup, and will do a mod one day to allow it.

Understandable, it's extra work getting off the tractor to lengthen the toplink for mowing - then again to shorten it again for transport. That's why I wouldn't be without my hydraulic toplink + flexible toplink bracket combination (on the flail, 3 rotary cutters, and a finish mower).

//greg//

 

[Grrrr]

I think most flails are similarly designed - big heavy roller on the back, some sort of skids on teh sides to prevent it digging in too deeply accidently.

The way we always run ours is to place the flail on the ground, and remove the toplink.

You then start to lift the three point linkage a small amount and that will pick up the front of the flail, but the roller will stay on the ground.

You continue to lift the linkage until the front of the flail is at the correct height you want to leave the grass.

We then put the top link back on. However, teh top link has a threaded slot rather than a hole on the flail mower, so as it can float. We start off with it in the middle of this slot, then it can move both ways.

The top link is only really needed to pick the flail up. The rest of the time it is un needed. You could achieve the same with a chain or floating top link. The lower link arms should take the weight of the front half of the flail.



I cannot see how 'floating' the link arms would be the right way to use one at all. There would be a lot of stress going through the top link to push it back off the ground, and it would not be very good on hills. The top link wants to have no stress in it at all or you will bend / break them.


This machine cuts about 2000 acres a year:

 

[SPYDERLK]

Hi Grrr. Long time since Iv seen you post. I use my flail as you describe, but would like to use it rigid sometime and let it float on the 3pt. I wouldnt anticipate that it would be harmful to the toplink except in extenuating circumstances. After all, rear blades and box blades are used with the toplink rigid. Only cheap toplinks are fragile.
larry

 

[greg_g]

I cannot see how 'floating' the link arms would be the right way to use one at all. There would be a lot of stress going through the top link to push it back off the ground, and it would not be very good on hills. The top link wants to have no stress in it at all or you will bend / break them.

You either don't have a floating toplink bracket, or don't understand what it's for. When adjusted for the mowing position, there is no "stress going through the toplink" - and it is excellent on hills. In fact, my property is ALL hills.

Look at the photos below. This particular style of flexible toplink bracket locks in the upright position. The left photo shows the transport position with the toplink shortened until the bracket hits its stop. At that point, the implement is picked up for transport. Now look at the right photo, which depicts the mowing position. Note that the toplink is lengthened, rotating the bracket back to the 45 degree position. Now when the front of the tractor is lower than the rear, the toplink pulls the bracket forward. But it's pivoting on a pin, so the mower deck never moves. Then when the front of the tractor is higher than the rear, the toplink pivots the bracket rearward. But it's only the bracket that moves, not the mower deck. That floating bracket will pivot through a full 90 degree arc, moving back and forth as the tractor goes up and down. Yet the mower deck stays parallel with the ground.

Same principle applies to the floating toplink bracket on my flail mower. I just didn't have any photos handy. The flail bracket is the U-type , and it pivots inside the A-frame instead of above it. Whereas the RC bracket has a 90 degree arc, the flail bracket will pivot nearly 180 degrees. And now that I have a hydraulic toplink, I don't even have to get off the tractor like I did in the past - to adjust the rigid toplink between transport length and mowing length.

//greg//

 

[SPYDERLK]

Yes. It will. Perhaps you don't understand the principle of "floating". The more you lengthen the distance between the upper and lower lift arms, the more the TPH will float. Short version; get your lower lift arms as close to the dirt as possible - low enough where you have to LIFT THEM UP to attach to the implement. This is done with the adjustable vertical links and/or moving them between/among the various pin holes on the lower lift arms. The more the implement is permitted to float, the less it gets picked up off the ground when cresting hills, and vice versa
//greg//

Wow. My thread back on the first page.
...
My flail has an 8 inch diameter roller the full width of the flail that it rides on. I carry no weight on the tractor. I just set the flail on the ground, three point all the way down and go. It floats along nicely on the terrain riding on the rear roller.

Yup, every flail I've ever seen works that way. What's confusing the issue here are some rotary cutter folks who've clearly never owned or operated a flail mower.//greg//

I cannot see how 'floating' the link arms would be the right way to use one at all. There would be a lot of stress going through the top link to push it back off the ground, and it would not be very good on hills. The top link wants to have no stress in it at all or you will bend / break them.

You either don't have a floating toplink bracket, or don't understand what it's for. When adjusted for the mowing position, there is no "stress going through the toplink" - and it is excellent on hills. In fact, my property is ALL hills.

Look at the photos below. This particular style of flexible toplink bracket locks in the upright position. The left photo shows the transport position with the toplink shortened until the bracket hits its stop. At that point, the implement is picked up for transport. Now look at the right photo, which depicts the mowing position. Note that the toplink is lengthened, rotating the bracket back to the 45 degree position. Now when the front of the tractor is lower than the rear, the toplink pulls the bracket forward. But it's pivoting on a pin, so the mower deck never moves. Then when the front of the tractor is higher than the rear, the toplink pivots the bracket rearward. But it's only the bracket that moves, not the mower deck. That floating bracket will pivot through a full 90 degree arc, moving back and forth as the tractor goes up and down. Yet the mower deck stays parallel with the ground.

Same principle applies to the floating toplink bracket on my flail mower. I just didn't have any photos handy. The flail bracket is the U-type , and it pivots inside the A-frame instead of above it. Whereas the RC bracket has a 90 degree arc, the flail bracket will pivot nearly 180 degrees. And now that I have a hydraulic toplink, I don't even have to get off the tractor like I did in the past - to adjust the rigid toplink between transport length and mowing length.//greg//

Greg, I am having trouble finding consistency in what youre saying. In your reply above to Allen in Texas you agree with his description of a fully rigid 3pt hookup for a flail. Altho my flail does not allow for this, I see that that hookup would inherently provide for operation with the 3pt set at minimum height and floated by the flail following the surface. ... Now you seem to be saying that your flail has a floating top link bracket. In order to use it in the "rigid" mode this bracket would have to be defeated, either locked up or driven to full compression by lengthening the toplink a lot, to allow floating the 3pt without the front of the flail taking a dive. This would also be the case with a bushog. You cannot float an implement on the 3pt w/o the top member being rigid or else fully compressed. So ... is that what youre doing? .. running the top fully compressed??

BTW In your reply you miss addressed Grrrs quote. There is definitely stress on the top member when an implement floats the 3pt.
larry

 

[Dead Horse]

/\ /\ yep.

 

[greg_g]

Greg, I am having trouble finding consistency in what youre saying. In your reply above to Allen in Texas you agree with his description of a fully rigid 3pt hookup for a flail. Altho my flail does not allow for this, I see that that hookup would inherently provide for operation with the 3pt set at minimum height and floated by the flail following the surface. ... Now you seem to be saying that your flail has a floating top link bracket. In order to use it in the "rigid" mode this bracket would have to be defeated, either locked up or driven to full compression by lengthening the toplink a lot, to allow floating the 3pt without the front of the flail taking a dive. This would also be the case with a bushog. You cannot float an implement on the 3pt w/o the top member being rigid or else fully compressed. So ... is that what youre doing? .. running the top fully compressed??

BTW In your reply you miss addressed Grrrs quote. There is definitely stress on the top member when an implement floats the 3pt.
larry

Sorry, but I've never waivered from the positon that conventional rear TPH flails (conventional TPH mowers in general) should have a floating toplink bracket. And at least twice I demonstrated - with photos - the use of said bracket; rigid for transport, extended for mowing. And that there is no stress on the toplink when a floating toplink bracket is used in the mowing (extended) position (I'm guessing those chain advocates - or those who admit to using no toplink at all - either don't have a floating toplink bracket installed, or don't know what it's for). I don't know how I could have made it any clearer than that.

//greg//