ATV or UTV-Help Me Decide

[Pug]

The folks on this forum helped me when I purchased my Mahindra tractor, and I'm back for advice on my next purchase. As background, I have a 60 acre farm of mostly wooded hills and valleys. I'm looking for a mid-range vehicle which would be split 50/50 between chores and hunting duty (very little if any, joyriding ), and have ridden but not owned one previously.

Here is my dilemma- I was set on buying a UTV such as the Rhino or new Polaris Ranger 400 since the above activities would be shared with my 12 YO son. It seemed like the perfect solution. Since then I have received mixed advice on whether these vehicles are 1) more or less stable than standard quad ATVs or 2) maneuverable enough to use for hunting in hilly woods terrain and around creekbeds. My number one priority is safety , and I've been told that side-by sides (execpt for the Polaris Razr) are actually less stable off trail than ATV's, and because of their weight more prone to cause injury if there is a mishap. I have also read the press on the Rhino model, and wondered how much creedence there is to the safety claims. I have no idea which way to go with this, so am hoping folks here will offer their fine advice!

Many thanks.

 

[HCJtractor]

I bought a Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI X2. This is like a regular ATV but with a one foot longer wheelbase. The seat back folds down and another back flips up so a second passenger rides in comfort behind you, even has grab-on handles and foot rests for the passenger. They make several versions of this. Another version is set up for touring with a more permanent and plush seat. The ride is excellent, and I frequently take my daughter, wife, 87 year old dad, and my hunting buddy along. (not at the same time!) I even have riden two adult passengers, although not as comfortably. Nice thing is it is still the width of a ATV, so it fits into my pickup truck bed, and it handles like a regular ATV, and is a blast to ride. It also has plenty of power, plenty of rack space, and is very comfortable over rough terrain. Other companies make a similar ATV. I think the main advantage is that it gives a true second passenger capacity, but does not require a trailer for transporting. During hunting season, mine stays in my truck bed in case I need it to recover a deer. And if you need more payload on your farm, the small ATV trailers from Northern work great for hauling tools, firewood, seed, fertilizer etc. Only disadvantage is a slightly langer turning radius than a normal ATV.

 

[soarkrebel1]

ATV's and UTV's can both be dangerous ....it depends mostly on how the operator uses it.
Personally between the two your looking at I would get the Rhino (if you can find one right now...I was looking and most dealers are out until sometime in 2010)
But for farm work the Kawasaki Mule's shouldn't be overlooked. They are slow and don't have that smooth ride but they are work horses around a place.
I use a 610 on a friends 600 acre place and sometimes have it with me. I was unimpressed at first but the little thing grew on me. It did just about everything I asked it to do.
It is by no means an ATV......meaning it will not go where an ATV goes. A Rhino will though.
A friend that hunts with me has one and I have grown to really like the Rhino. It is capable of going into most all places I do on a Honda Foreman. Width gets it sometimes.
My son the AG Ed major works for a Man that owns a 2200 farm in South Arkansas. He uses a 2006 Rhino that has been beat up beyond belief. Three Transmissions and countless other mishaps and still goes.
It has been through swamps,under water and rolled and still goes. Just think if you took care of one what it would do?
Now in retrospect the man changes his UTV's every few years and it's time. He is considering the Mules again just for the dependability. He says they won't go where the Rhino goes but they start every time and work.
He also considering the Honda Big Red.....ugly but dependable,reliable and comes from a company with a reputation of good products.
Did I mention it was ugly????? I looked at one of those ugly machines ....it appears that it might be more stable then some others. I just can't get over the ugly.......maybe it would grow on you ...............

I think UTV is the way to go for two people......more people ?? The transmule.....or Ranger Crew. Big but can carry lots of people and look fun for the family.

 

[farmboy12]

Based on your options, I would get the Ranger in a heartbeat. I have never owned one personally, but I have driven one or two, and from what I can build up they are THE BEST out there, and not just from the cheap, cheating videos they make every year. I haven't heard many complaints, and they were one of the original 2-3 UTVs out there and have been around for a while. But, the 400 is new, and the 450 is not, so any problems have most likely been recorded with the 450 Rhino. And the Rhino 450 has been proven to have a lot of power, someone posted a video of his pulling an 11,500 lb truck and trailer in the mountains.

But still, I think the Ranger is the way to go, especially if work is a major part of it.


Kyle

 

[soarkrebel1]

Based on your options, I would get the Ranger in a heartbeat. I have never owned one personally, but I have driven one or two, and from what I can build up they are THE BEST out there, and not just from the cheap, cheating videos they make every year. I haven't heard many complaints, and they were one of the original 2-3 UTVs out there and have been around for a while. But, the 400 is new, and the 450 is not, so any problems have most likely been recorded with the 450 Rhino. And the Rhino 450 has been proven to have a lot of power, someone posted a video of his pulling an 11,500 lb truck and trailer in the mountains.

But still, I think the Ranger is the way to go, especially if work is a major part of it.


Kyle

Most people that I know that own Rangers like them. The one thing for me would be the width. They are wide and might give some problems on some trails.
The Rhino is narrower and will go on those narrow trails between trees better then the Ranger.
The Rhino 450's are not hard to find it's the 700 FI's that are hard right now.
The 450's don't have the four wheel disc's all the way around and still use the disc on the rear drive shaft. They are not fuel injected and still have the old intake between the seats.
I understand that moving the intake from between the seats on the 700's made it a little quieter in the cab.
But if you want silence get a mule......on a 610 you can talk without yelling while riding and they say the transmule is even quieter......

 

[KentT]

I have a Rhino 450 and ride with two different ATV clubs on a regular basis so I've had a chance to compare it to all kinds/sizes of ATVs in all types of conditions. We often ride on tight, twisty trails through the trees here in New England, crossing streams, marshes and beaver ponds, and climbing steep rocky hills. In a nutshell, it will go anywhere it will fit between the trees or rocks. It will go anywhere the ATVs will, and some places that most of them won't try to take their ATVs -- like steep, rocky hills. Compared to an ATV in those types of situations, it has more weight (i.e. traction) and more low-end "grunt" to crawl up over things at slow speeds. In comparison, the ATVs scratch their way up an over, bouncing and spinning while I likely never spun a tire...

It is not as fast (which is a good thing and actually makes it safer, IMO), and not as maneuverable, so sometimes I do have to stop and back up to maneuver through a tight spot. The only places/routes that the ATVs have gone that I could not is across a couple of narrow "foot-log" type homemade bridges out on the trails -- I found and now take an alternate route around each, fording the streams. On a recent ride, a quad followed me and I ended up having to pull him out of the stream because he flipped it trying to climb the bank I'd just crawled up...

As far as safety -- personally, I think the UTV is much, much safer than ATV if you follow the MFR's safety recommendations. Unless I'm just tooling along at slow speed, sightseeing or working, I'm wearing a helmet. EVERY time I ride trails, I wear a helmet. I require anyone who rides with me on the trails to also wear one -- I have spares in two sizes so they have no excuse. I ALWAYS wear my seatbelt, and require them to do so, even if I'm only going 50-100 feet...

As far as the Rhino specifically. IMO, it is likely as safe as any of them out there, contrary to all the publicity. (The RZR has a lower center of gravity, but it is a MUCH faster vehicle and it's rollcage is really no better.)

There's several reason Rhinos are notorious:

1. They essentially "invented" the market niche of sport/utility, combining trail riding with work. Prior to that, essentially everything was a work machine -- even the Polaris Ranger which is trail capable on wider, more open trails.

2. They sold more UTVs than anyone else, being the first out there, and "learned by doing"... later machines such as the Teryx and Arctic Cat simply took Yamaha's basic ideas and offered enhancements or differences.

3. The lawyers targeted them specifically, because there were more accidents with them simply because there were more Rhinos out there...

Many/most of the Rhino accidents were caused by people not operating them as described in the owner/operator manual (such as sliding them through high-speed turns), under the influence of alcohol/drugs, or people not wearing the safety equipment (helmet & seatbelt). In response to these accidents, Yamaha has done two voluntary repairs, adding doors and then later wheel spacers and a free helmet, to make them more difficult to turn over, and to keep you inside the rollcage and protected better if you do...

Yamaha is likely no longer the market leader in terms of sales -- Polaris likely is with the different Rangers and RZRs. But, Yamaha has born the brunt of lawsuits in defending this market, and in large part, the costs of advertising to initially definie this market... They still offer a proven, very reliable and safe product.

Don't be scared off by the rumors and publicity seekers -- do your own research. IMO, with that youngster you'd both be safer inside a rollcage. I suggest you compare the Rhino 450, the new Ranger 400, and the new Mule 610XC. I love my 450 had have had ZERO problems with it.

HTH..

 

[KentT]

Most people that I know that own Rangers like them. The one thing for me would be the width. They are wide and might give some problems on some trails.
The Rhino is narrower and will go on those narrow trails between trees better then the Ranger.
The Rhino 450's are not hard to find it's the 700 FI's that are hard right now.
The 450's don't have the four wheel disc's all the way around and still use the disc on the rear drive shaft. They are not fuel injected and still have the old intake between the seats.
I understand that moving the intake from between the seats on the 700's made it a little quieter in the cab.
But if you want silence get a mule......on a 610 you can talk without yelling while riding and they say the transmule is even quieter......

You're correct -- the 450's still use the Rhino 660 running gear, except for engine and transmission. So their rear brake works on the rear driveshaft instead of at each wheel. (Note that Rhinos have a solid rear axle so this single brake disk brakes both rear wheels.). The 450 is geared MUCH lower than a 660, and actually pulls better, especially at lower RPMs than the 660. The newer 700fi is geared somewhere in between the 450 and 660...

The stock 450 is noisier than a 700 because the carb air intake is under your elbow, while newer design 700 moved the airbox up underneath the hood. I bought about $30 of shop-vac hose at Home Depot and routed my air intake up underneath the hood, and blocked off the one under my elbow, quietening it down significantly.

The 450 is about $2000 cheaper than a 700 -- and I chose to spend some of that savings on accesories like skidplates, winch, etc. For my use, I just couldn't justify the additional $2K.

 

[soarkrebel1]

KentT very good post!

 

[soarkrebel1]

You're correct -- the 450's still use the Rhino 660 running gear, except for engine and transmission. So their rear brake works on the rear driveshaft instead of at each wheel. (Note that Rhinos have a solid rear axle so this single brake disk brakes both rear wheels.). The 450 is geared MUCH lower than a 660, and actually pulls better, especially at lower RPMs than the 660. The newer 700fi is geared somewhere in between the 450 and 660...

The stock 450 is noisier than a 700 because the carb air intake is under your elbow, while newer design 700 moved the airbox up underneath the hood. I bought about $30 of shop-vac hose at Home Depot and routed my air intake up underneath the hood, and blocked off the one under my elbow, quietening it down significantly.

The 450 is about $2000 cheaper than a 700 -- and I chose to spend some of that savings on accesories like skidplates, winch, etc. For my use, I just couldn't justify the additional $2K.

I am in a debate between the 450 and 700 right now. And was ready to buy a 700 a few weeks ago but finding one that was priced right was hard.
I found many 450's for around $7800 in camo and have really thought about them even more......especially today in the rain at the farm wanting to get to one of stands and not wanting to get soaked.

Kent I am so gung ho I even have the shop manuals for all the Rhinos.......well I am a shop manual nut and have many others ..if I find them I save them.
I was leaning toward the 700's because I pull small trailers that I build for my ATV's. I go behind the timber cutters and cut the tops up for firewood. I really wanted that extra displacement for the pulling but have read that the 450's are just as or more capable of pulling loads.....

I had a sears yard cart that I wore out that had high speed tapered bearing axles that I installed....I rebuilt the thing......well really built another using the bottom axle portion of the old one....I put this thing through some rough stuff.......right now it looks brown with all the mud on it......lol
Here is a picture......

 

[KentT]

KentT very good post!

Thanks...

OBTW, as far as I know, Yamaha has won EVERY lawsuit that has come to trial so far. But, they've still coughed up mucho $$ on lawyers...

 

[soarkrebel1]

Thanks...

OBTW, as far as I know, Yamaha has won EVERY lawsuit that has come to trial so far. But, they've still coughed up mucho $$ on lawyers...

That's what I have heard about the lawsuits. If they are like most manufacturers they have a legal department to handle the suits.
I work for a major aircraft manufacturer and they have just that......they are always wanting to sue aircraft companies.
Once I was contacted by our lawyers in reference to a aircraft that a major department store had bought originally and sold. It was repainted and they did not install the placards on it.
Some bonehead didn't read the manual on how to dissipate the static electricity in the windshields and got shocked....knocked him off the ladder and He was trying to sue.
I released the airplane before delivery and they wanted to know if the placards were installed....yes they were.....but we have no control over what the owner does after they take possession.
Every time there is a accident with an aircraft regardless of fault the sorry lawyers come out for blood!!!!!!

 

[KentT]

I am in a debate between the 450 and 700 right now. And was ready to buy a 700 a few weeks ago but finding one that was priced right was hard.
I found many 450's for around $7800 in camo and have really thought about them even more......especially today in the rain at the farm wanting to get to one of stands and not wanting to get soaked.

Kent I am so gung ho I even have the shop manuals for all the Rhinos.......well I am a shop manual nut and have many others ..if I find them I save them.
I was leaning toward the 700's because I pull small trailers that I build for my ATV's. I go behind the timber cutters and cut the tops up for firewood. I really wanted that extra displacement for the pulling but have read that the 450's are just as or more capable of pulling loads.....

I had a sears yard cart that I wore out that had high speed tapered bearing axles that I installed....I rebuilt the thing......well really built another using the bottom axle portion of the old one....I put this thing through some rough stuff.......right now it looks brown with all the mud on it......lol
Here is a picture......

IMO, the 450 will likely pull anything a 700 will under most conditions... as I said, they'll outpull a 660.

The biggest limitation is tongue weight, not the weight of the trailer. I use mine to move my 14ft landscaping trailer all the time -- I have a hitch on the front that I "spot the trailer" with every time I use it... Of course, common sense comes in when it comes to trying to stop a heavy load with an 1040 lb machine.

Here's a link to an earlier post I'd made about a guy with a 450 pulling a F-250 Crew Cab Powerstroke with a RZR in the back and an enclosed trailer behind it...

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...640-not-recommended-but-impressive-still.html

Don't get me wrong -- if money were no object, I'd likely have a new 700fi Sport but unfortunately, money was/is an issue...

I think if you bargain hard, you might be able to find a new 450 in the $7200-7500 range, before taxes. I paid $7000 for my 2008 450SE, as a "holdover" last spring -- with an MSRP of $9199, I got it essentially at dealer cost to get it off his floorplan...

Note that camo is a $500 premium...

 

[KentT]

If interested, here's a photo album that shows mine, the trailer I haul it on and move with it, and some of the SMOOTHEST, WIDEST trails we ride.

SVTR with Eli, 7-3-09 - a set on Flickr

Here's some videos taken from it on the trails in MA and VT, plus climbing Mt Washington in NH:

YouTube - NQATV Club Ride, 7-25-09, Part II

Note that I re-routed the intake on it after the trail ride videos, but before the Mt Washington climb, so you can tell how much it quietened it down.

 

[camer]

I have a kawasaki teryx and my son has a rhino. both are really good bikes no problems with either one. the teryx has way more power and handles a lot better. my son has bigger tires and i would say the ride is equal or better then the teryx. i also have a mule i bought that has 17,000 miles on it. it was used a a golf course and was beat pretty bad but still runs good. you wont go wrong with any make they are all good.

 

[camer]

[]I have a kawasaki teryx and my son has a rhino. both are really good bikes no problems with either one. the teryx has way more power and handles a lot better. my son has bigger tires and i would say the ride is equal or better then the teryx. i also have a mule i bought that has 17,000 miles on it. it was used on a golf course and was beat pretty bad but still runs good. you wont go wrong with any make they are all good.[/QUOTE]

 

[jcummins]

ATV or UTV....to me it isn't even close. Get a UTV, you will enjoy it a lot more.

I driven Polaris, Rhino, and Teryx. I have a Teryx. I liked the Polaris bed etc...but the major reason I was drawn to the Rhino and the Teryx, was getting in/out of them, and how you sit in it when your drive it. The Rhino I know first hand is more tippy than the Teryx, and the little extra width of the Teryx was the final thing that sold me.

I use the Teryx in a cattle ranch setup...and have banged it up a bit, the plastic does how up well to the abuse, but I would be lost without this thing, it's a rolling work vehicle to me. I put a special drawer in the bed for fence repair tools, etc, and it is a good hunting vehicle when I want it to be. Everything is a compromise but if I bought again, it would be another Teryx.

 

[1bush2hog]

I have a 2003 Yamaha Grizzly 660, and was planning on upgrading to the 700 EPS, but ended up buying a Ranger XP instead. The Grizzly has worked great for pulling small trailer loads, mounting a 25 gal. sprayer to, etc. It was also used by my two kids, when it wasn't working. If you go ATV - please sign your son up for a rider safety course, for that matter take it with him.

No matter what choice you go with common sense, rider education, and proper operation will ultimately determine how safe your machine is. You may want to check and see which machines will allow you to govern the speed for other riders that may be using it. My Grizzly had a screw on the throttle that you could adjust to keep others from grabbing too much throttle. Not sure if the Rangers have this or not.

I bought a Ranger because it has room for my wife to sit beside me, and load tools, and dogs in the back, and still hook a trailer up to pull what I need to pull. I went with the 800 though. The Ranger does not have EBS like my Grizzly does, and this requires a different style of driving that some may not be comfortable with. I have steep hills, and haven't had enough time behind the wheel yet to really give a good review, but I don't think it will be a problem.

Another major reason I went with the 2010 Ranger 800 XP is because it now has a certified ROPS - I'm not sure about the 400 or 500's so check it out. I do not think the Rhino or any others have a certified ROPS at this point, but I really did not look at them too long as the seating on them was way to small for my big self. I liked the Mule, but as soon as I sat down, my knees were jammed under the steering wheel, so I never gave it any more consideration.

I do think in the long run your 12 year old son may end up using whatever you purchase alot more than you.

Good Luck with your purchase.

 

[farmboy12]

Most people that I know that own Rangers like them. The one thing for me would be the width. They are wide and might give some problems on some trails.
The Rhino is narrower and will go on those narrow trails between trees better then the Ranger.
The Rhino 450's are not hard to find it's the 700 FI's that are hard right now.
The 450's don't have the four wheel disc's all the way around and still use the disc on the rear drive shaft. They are not fuel injected and still have the old intake between the seats.
I understand that moving the intake from between the seats on the 700's made it a little quieter in the cab.
But if you want silence get a mule......on a 610 you can talk without yelling while riding and they say the transmule is even quieter......

Have you seen the new 400 Polarises? They are almost as narrow as the pure sport SxS out there. But, I don't want to get into fighting and hijack the thread.


Kyle

 

[KentT]

I driven Polaris, Rhino, and Teryx. I have a Teryx. I liked the Polaris bed etc...but the major reason I was drawn to the Rhino and the Teryx, was getting in/out of them, and how you sit in it when your drive it. The Rhino I know first hand is more tippy than the Teryx, and the little extra width of the Teryx was the final thing that sold me.

Is this evaluation before or after Yamaha put the 2" wheel spacers on the rear in their second voluntary repair during this summer? Each one coming out the dealer's door now MUST have them installed, and the swaybar removed (if it still has one). It's voluntary for any sold before, but they'll throw in a free helmet if you bring it in and have it done -- which I did.

I also added 1" spacers to the front of mine to better match the rear.

My wheel track is now 57.5" and I don't think it's any "tippier" than the Teryx I ride with. The Teryx is only 58.5" according to its specs, and I'm not sure it that is the body panels or the wheel track.

 

[nybirdman]

I own a 450 Rhino that I purchsed new Jan.o7.It currently has about 1800 trouble free miles.It is used for my business(some pleasure) almost every day.
If you check towing capacity;it is rated the same as the 660 Rhino,carrying capacity is the same.400lb.I traded a 660 Grizzley for mine,tho a good machine the Rhino has proven to be better for what I do.Compared to the 660 the 450 is a lot better on fuel.
The new Rhinos(700) are fuel injected ,that should be a plus......I am hopeing that Yamaha will put the 550 in the new Rhino.The new ones 2010(2011) will have power steering,fuel injection,and a back seat.......somewhat wider over-all.
We also have a Kawasaki Teryx;750 twin cylinder......a Rhino copy ,a little wider and longer.......but a bear on fuel.
Driven with common sense I beleive they are safer than an ATV.
Good luck with your choice.