Electrical usage for your house???

[Old Paths]

Eddie, how is power quality out there? Specifically, transients, spikes, lightning can mess with a meter, I have also seen what lightning can do to things underground...Interesting article at
Cabinet Magazine Online - All About Lightning: An Interview with Martin Uman

describing fulgurites. I would also be interested in voltage at the meter (or nearby) and at the end. You can predict voltage drop by length of run and wire gauge, if the drop is any more than expected, you have found the issue. If you do shut off the mains before the underground portion, disconnect both ends and use a megger (used to test insulation) and you will find the problem if there is compromised insulation anywhere. You also should be concerned with delivered voltage, as the voltage being low will result in increased amperage, taxing the wires...
$0.02 from an electrical engineer

Jerry

 

[EddieWalker]

With all the rain that we've had, my dad got bored and decided to spend a day on the phone playing the game with the power company. It really is sad, but it took all day yesterday and half the day today to finally get somebody to explain to him how to read the digital meter. Turns out all you do is wait for the row of x's to apear and then the next set of numbers that appears is the multiplier and usage.

This is significant. My bill shows that my multiplier is 8. They take the reading on the meter and multiply it by 8 to get the actual usage. Dad discovered that the multiplier on the meter says one. He then spent the better part of the rest of the day getting somebody to come out here and verify this so we can go on to the next step.

If this proves correct, then we've been paying 8 times what my actual energy use is.

They said it will take up to 15 days to have somebody come out here. Dad kept calling them back and after the forth or fifth call, they said they'd send somebody out here sooner, but wouldn't commit to when, which my dad figured was about the best he could hope for.

The saga continues......


Eddie

 

[MossRoad]

If this proves correct, then we've been paying 8 times what my actual energy use is.

Surprise! Oops, our fault. We'll give you a credit on your account and you won't have to pay again until the balance is zero.

Translation: thanks for the interest free loan.

I hope it works out in your favor.

 

[irvingj]

Yeah, dividing your billed KWH by 8 would make a difference....

...and would sound closer to "normal" for your 1000 sq ft, where not everything is electric like in my house.

Be sure to give your Dad the "Patience" award for hanging in there on the phone (and thank him)!!

Sounds like you may be on your way to a more efficient life- hope it gets resolved!

And yes, electric companies CAN screw up on the meter- I had one replaced, they put in the "wrong type", and my bills jumped about 80% until I noticed it. If I hadn't called them on it, it probably would have stayed there indefinitely....

 

[Bird]

With all the rain that we've had, my dad got bored and decided to spend a day on the phone playing the game with the power company. It really is sad, but it took all day yesterday and half the day today to finally get somebody to explain to him how to read the digital meter. Turns out all you do is wait for the row of x's to apear and then the next set of numbers that appears is the multiplier and usage.

This is significant. My bill shows that my multiplier is 8. They take the reading on the meter and multiply it by 8 to get the actual usage. Dad discovered that the multiplier on the meter says one. He then spent the better part of the rest of the day getting somebody to come out here and verify this so we can go on to the next step.

If this proves correct, then we've been paying 8 times what my actual energy use is.

They said it will take up to 15 days to have somebody come out here. Dad kept calling them back and after the forth or fifth call, they said they'd send somebody out here sooner, but wouldn't commit to when, which my dad figured was about the best he could hope for.

The saga continues......


Eddie

Eddie, I might be wrong, but I'll bet if you called the Texas Public Utility Commission in Austin and told them just what you've posted here, the power company will have someone out there within 24 hours.

 

[hr3]

Eddie.. Just found this thread very interesting reading ,, I hope your multiplier is {1}.. That will take care of it,,, If not you are right to check the amps at the breakers below the meter,,With the mains off at the house you should read 0.. Also you might want your dad to do the phone thing again,,or talk to the guy who comes out to check your meter,, Ask them about the line balance,,, older meters did read the power drawn on both hot legs... the newer digital meters may take a reading from both and record the highest of the 2,,, Makes sence too.. on a load basis...

Good luck with the RV park when you get it going..Maybe someday when I retire I'll spend a night,,

 

[BobRip]

Eddie.. Ask them about the line balance,,, older meters did read the power drawn on both hot legs... the newer digital meters may take a reading from both and record the highest of the 2,,, Makes sence too.. on a load basis...

Why does this make sense? You are supposed to pay for kilowatt hours. With the suggested system, you are paying some bogus amount. Kilowatt hour is a scientific, engineering, and I suspect legal term. The bogus method is not. Does anyone have knowledge of this approach? I hear the rumor of it, but no real confirmation. The power company could just set any multiplier and get away with. I guess they did this here. But it is not legal.

Since the power company is seeing the same power on their line regardless of the balance or unbalance then this really does not make sense. Sorry if I am off topic.

 

[hr3]

Bob,,, Your right if he had and old "Thompson" meter but i think he said he has the newer Smart meters,, The smart meters can read both "real power" or Apparent Power"

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...ter&ndsp=20&hl=en&safe=off&sa=N&start=40&um=1

 

[BobRip]

Bob,,, Your right if he had and old "Thompson" meter but i think he said he has the newer Smart meters,, The smart meters can read both "real power" or Apparent Power"

I just question the legality of this "Apparent Power". Sure with modern technology you can do anything you want, but that does not make it legal or reasonable. Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer and they do weird things.

 

[dex3361]

I live in WV and I have been working for our Company on a Power Management Team to review the Power Bills and here are a few facts for our bills in WV.

We are billed for the KW usage. Not charged by KVA (apparent power).
Each bill has a different tariff depending on the size of service and the type of service.

Power Quality is an issue but only larger services and then only if the KVAR exceeds 50% of the KWD.

The meters currently used (smart meters) does not matter if the legs are balanced or not they measure the actual KW on both legs of power individually(as reported by the local power utility) and bill accordingly.

 

[DavidVT]

Eddie,
I pulled the following quote from an earlier post of yours in this thread:

"I have a 1,200 amp meter that I ran two line from to my house. One goes to a two hundred amp breaker box that just does my HVAC and water heater. It's way under utilized, but I plan on needing it down the line when I open the RV Park."

I wonder if your multiplier has something to do with the size of your service?

I was once told that commercial accounts (up here at least), pay for their KW usage and for the capacity they are capable of using. Seems a bit fuzzy but the justification is that to maintain all that high current capacity to the customer, the customer must pay for the capacity of the 'pipe' and the 'juice' that flows through it.

A local high school down sized their service this summer so they could save a large amount of money on this capacity issue. The service originally was sized for electric heat, something that has not been used there for decades.

Good luck!

 

[EddieWalker]

David,

That was my understanding too. I'm expecting to use allot of electricity one of these days, so I figured the mulitplier of 8 was due to that expected useage. From what I've learne,d they can put in a multiplyer of 1 to 20 onto a meter. Some meters also come with a built in multpilier, but they have that amount printed onto the meter so it's obvious to see. Regardless of the multiplier, the electrical usage would be the same. If the militplier is correct, then the meter would actualy read 1/8 the actual usage, then they mulitiply that by 8 to get my correct usage.

Eddie

 

[ToadHill]

When I put up my house, the electrician hooked up the ground wire in the wrong place in the main electrical box and I thought my bill was high. True it was a bigger house than I had previously but the bill went up sky high. It took me a couple months to find that when I touched certain parts of the house, I got a shock. Come to find out Some of the electrical current was draining through the grounding rod and into the earth.

We changed the placement of the main ground, the shocks went away and the electrical bill was cut in half.

 

[EddieWalker]

I wouldn't think that was possible. Where did he put the ground wire? Was it done in the panel? Did you personally fix this or did you hire somebody to come in and fix it?

Eddie

 

[ToadHill]

He put the ground wire in the same eail with the common wires. That was inside the main box. I hired a different electrician to look at the problem and he found the trouble. He said that because the house had aluminum siding I was getting the shocks, and while hooking the ground up to the common bar isn't usually a problem, sometimes it can do what I found was happening in my case.

I don't know enough about electricity to know if this is the case or if he was just covering for the other guy.

 

[heehaw]

i guess i would have to put the ground wire back an do a little testing to see how that could happen? i have seen mobile homes with this exact problem, but it was always when the hot an neutral were reversed. say you have a 120v motor with a two prong plug on it: reverse the plug in the recepticle an you will get this exact problem...theres a reason new plugs can't be reversed, easily.
heehaw

 

[EddieWalker]

A technician from Oncor came out this morning and it looks like the miltiplier is correct. Inside my meter box are some transformers. Those transformers are what dictates the multipier. They reduce the voltage that goes to the meter. There was also something to do with risistors, or resistance, which is also calculated into what the multiplier is. He went through it fairly quckly, so I asked him to explain it again so I could understand. It made sence, and he had the numbers on everything behind the meter to support what he was saying. My Dad has a degree in electronics, so he was able to follow along better then I did. He said the tech was right, and I couldn't find any fault with what he showed us. He did tell us that there is nowhere on the meter reading that shows the multiplier. We were givin the wrong information from the person on the phone. Looks like Dad spent all day on the phone trying to find somebody to explain to him how to read the meter, only to get totally bogus information.

I'm back to where we started.

Eddie

 

[heehaw]

are you looking at what you are paying monthly, or the number of Kwh's being used monthly? i didn't realize you are rated as a commercial customer? from what i was told by a local machine shop here at one time, they paid their electric bill, goverened by the peak load: as if that load were on all month long: so they were very careful not to run more than a certain number of motors at the same time: trying to keep the "peak load" down?? this made absolutely no sense to me, as a "mulitiplier" makes no sense to me either, since i always thought we all pay for what we use, but commercial stuff is diffenently figured different than residentual.
heehaw

 

[Scooby074]

Commercial is billed differently. Like HeeHaw says its based on your peak. Your meter may have a sweep style display with 2 pointers on it. There will be a tagged lever there thats used to reset the "peak" pointer when the meter is read. New digital ones are different.

Things like Power Factor really play into the rate that commercial users pay. Shaving a small amount off your PF can pay huge dividends on your cost of power. Probably not applicable to your situation.

Other ways to save commercially are to go on short notice disconnect, where the power co. can call and have you shut down certain high power machines (or shut down completely). This usually is only offered to the very highest electrical users in your area.

 

[EddieWalker]

I'm worried about how much electricity I'm using. My bill is totally unique due to my situation and being commercial. I take that as part of the process and don't have any issues with that part of it. I just feel that I'm using more electricity then normal.

After the Technician left, we started doing some tests on the lines. The two mains that come from the meter to the house and the two panels were both checked. Neither are drawing any electricity with the breakers off at the house. The panel to the house, shop and RV are pulling 9 amps during the day with the TV, computer and a few lights on.

The panel to the utility room where the water heater and HVAC are located is drawng 18 amps with 15 of those going to the HVAC unit. The water heater and lights are also pulling some power, but it was pretty small compared to the HVAC unit. It's fairly cool out today and I set the AC to 72 in order to get it to start up.

My bill for last month has me using 2,464 kWh for a 30 day period. I figure that 24 hours in 30 days is 720 hours in a month. When I devide 2,646 by 720, I get 3.42 kWh that I'm using on average, every hour.

Adding up my usage for right now, I'm using 27 amps right now, home alone. Actually, it's only 11 amps because the AC is off.

Does this add up? or make sense?

How many amps should a 2 1/2 tonne AC unit draw? That condensor seems to be the main thing working and the biggest draw of power. Is that where it's going?

Thanks,
Eddie