Small Building Foundation

[Believer]

I'd like to erect a small shop about 20x30. This might be a timber framed structure. I have a backhoe to dig for footings and foundation. My question is about the concrete. I have an access problem for big trucks, so I'll have to mix the concrete myself. Is it reasonable to think that I can mix and pour from a 3pt mixer and end up with it done right?

 

[tommu56]

What about a pole barn no "footings" just PT posts in the ground?

what art you putting on the floor?
what is the issue with cement truck size, weight, roads?
site mix truck or a mini truck might work.

tom

 

[MikeInEburg]

Another option - at least in our area - are smaller concrete trucks. These are great for areas where access is limited. While doing the project with 3-point mixer is very viable, this would be my second choice behind two trips with the small truck mixers.
Mike

 

[Egon]

There was a pile of concrete poured before Concrete trucks came into being.

Just remember its hard work and requires placement planing so the batches are coherent. It's very labour intensive so a crew is always advisable.

Pumper truck?
small cement caddy? [tractor bucket]

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

cement caddy = mud buggy around here.
another option would be to pour 12" piers where you're going to have upright poles set.
these would be easy enough to do with a 3 pt mixer and no worry about cold joins.

 

[asylum575]

I agree with Egon,

Pumper truck.

As much as I like doing everything myself, I've learned sometimes you have to pay a little more to save yourself alot of work and headache. I had a friend that lives in the city pour a 25x50 area of concrete, BY BAGS AND HAND MIXING. Never again. Pumper truck will be quick and save you alot of aggravation.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I'd like to erect a small shop about 20x30. This might be a timber framed structure. I have a backhoe to dig for footings and foundation. My question is about the concrete. I have an access problem for big trucks, so I'll have to mix the concrete myself. Is it reasonable to think that I can mix and pour from a 3pt mixer and end up with it done right?

You will be there all day. We poured a 12x8 slab 4" tick with a mixer and 4 guys and it took 6 hours. Really, just do the pole barn or have the concrete pumped.

Chris

 

[EddieWalker]

I'd like to erect a small shop about 20x30. This might be a timber framed structure. I have a backhoe to dig for footings and foundation. My question is about the concrete. I have an access problem for big trucks, so I'll have to mix the concrete myself. Is it reasonable to think that I can mix and pour from a 3pt mixer and end up with it done right?

No.

Concrete is going to be drying on you faster then you can mix it and spread it out.

As for how did they do it before concrete trucs were available, in allot of cases, they didn't. Look at allot of old buildings and you will see pier and beam foundations and/or wood floors. In a few examples where it was done, you'll see that it took allot of manpower to accomplish it. Multiple mixers and people hauling it back and forth.

In theory, with enough people, mixers and wheelbarrows, it could be done. It would have to be planned out, laid out and organized. That alone requires experience in order to have enough material on hand and that it's spread out before it hardens.

United Rentals has one yard buggies that you rent and pull behind your vehicle. They have gas motors that keep the mud mixed and allow you to tilt it to dump it when you back up to the pour site. One yard doesn't go very far, and you have a pretty big pad to pour.

Depending on your location, you might need to dig down pretty deep for you footings.

You could pour just the footings and then fill the pad in smaller squares to get a concrete floor. This makes getting it flat easier, but it requires allot of planning and engineering to make sure it stays flat and level. Things like freezing, moisture and soil types will dictate on what you use under the concrete for a base and how thick it needs to be.

Or you could build a pole buildings and leave the floor dirt, or add gravel at a later date.

It's real easy to get in over your head with concrete. It might look simple, but it's a skill that takes practice to be able to do well. It's backbreaking work that will wear you out long before you are done working it, and it's unforgiving. Make a mistake, and you have to live with it forever.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[tommu56]

In theory, with enough people, mixers and wheelbarrows, it could be done. It would have to be planned out, laid out and organized. That alone requires experience in order to have enough material on hand and that it's spread out before it hardens.Eddie

I didn't think of the army of people approach.

But you still have to get the stone, cement and sand there by truck.

whats the biggest vehicle you can get there?

I helped a neighbor as a kid he couldn't get the cement truck to the forms but we could get his pick up there so we loaded pick up bed 3 or 4 times (tar paper in the tailgate gaps) to make pour and truck was way over loaded you could steer with one finger and it wasen't power steering.

tom

 

[yooperdave]

Do you have a tractor with a loader or a skid steer?

Have the concrete truck dump into your bucket at the end of the driveway and take off.

Good Luck,

Yooper Dave

 

[theboman]

About 30 years ago my brother built his garage 30x40 and we poured the floor and mixed all the concrete for posts etc., right there on the spot. Dad built a box about 4x8, to the best of my memory, and we mixed all in that big box. When the building was finished the box got burned with all the scrap stuff.

 

[radioman]

No.

Concrete is going to be drying on you faster then you can mix it and spread it out.

As for how did they do it before concrete trucs were available, in allot of cases, they didn't. Look at allot of old buildings and you will see pier and beam foundations and/or wood floors. In a few examples where it was done, you'll see that it took allot of manpower to accomplish it. Multiple mixers and people hauling it back and forth.

In theory, with enough people, mixers and wheelbarrows, it could be done. It would have to be planned out, laid out and organized. That alone requires experience in order to have enough material on hand and that it's spread out before it hardens.

United Rentals has one yard buggies that you rent and pull behind your vehicle. They have gas motors that keep the mud mixed and allow you to tilt it to dump it when you back up to the pour site. One yard doesn't go very far, and you have a pretty big pad to pour.

Depending on your location, you might need to dig down pretty deep for you footings.

You could pour just the footings and then fill the pad in smaller squares to get a concrete floor. This makes getting it flat easier, but it requires allot of planning and engineering to make sure it stays flat and level. Things like freezing, moisture and soil types will dictate on what you use under the concrete for a base and how thick it needs to be.

Or you could build a pole buildings and leave the floor dirt, or add gravel at a later date.

It's real easy to get in over your head with concrete. It might look simple, but it's a skill that takes practice to be able to do well. It's backbreaking work that will wear you out long before you are done working it, and it's unforgiving. Make a mistake, and you have to live with it forever.

Good luck,
Eddie

Good advice given here. However I would liek to make a tiny correction here. The word drying needs to be swapped with curing. concrete cures , not dry . If it dried out then you got a crumbling mess. If it cured, then I would say you got a harden mix. (pretty trivial thing but with concrete it bugs me when people say dry instead cure).

As for the OP- call around for a concrete pumper for advice on how far they can go and see if it workable for you. Even if it still too short, using a pumper and army of people moving concrete would work to save trips.

 

[dodge man]

It can be done by hand, but you would need at least 6 guys, and maybe 8. You would also need someone that had alot of experience in mixing concrete. In other words an old guy that has done it before. Redy mix is a much better product and more consistent. The pumper truck would work great, but would be expensive and still may not get the concete where you need it. The engine driven little walk behind dump wagons would be great also, but I would think you would need 2 or 3 of them to be effecient. Another idea would be to make a road to get the concrete trucks to the site, which may be cheaper in the long run.

The biggest factor is how close can you get the concrete truck?

 

[wedge40]

I also would like to know more about the distance he is talking. There has to be some sort of access, other wise why build it there? I would widen the road/access point and get a truck in there.

Wedge

 

[westcliffe01]

While looking at real estate in Southern Colorado, I have seen plenty places you could never get a large truck into. 30% grades, sharp bends, road running between trees that may not be cut down (some subdiivisions are extreme), combination of steep and loose rock etc etc.

Like this place:Mission Wolf Home Page I should add that they have their "wolf bus" in there, but I barely made it with my dodge ram 1500 and I would have a hard time believing anyone would want to risk their pumper truck on those roads unless you signed a contract that you would pay for anything that got broke...
Winter pic here (not the best)

When all else fails, and if you desperately want to be there (apparently) divide and conquer. Make some steel (or could be plywood too) forms to restrict each pour to a manageable size. Use Rebar (not welded mesh) and drill holes in the outer forms to pass the ends of the rebar through about 14". This way, after each pour, you have rebar sticking out that gets overlapped with the rebar in the next pour. Code may dictate how much the rebar must overlap. More is better to a point, just more expensive.

You may not get the prettiest slab ever, but totally functional and it should never crack. Just pay careful attention to the forms being dead straight and level and getting the height of the forms to match from one pour to the next.

 

[GE222]

A pumper truck might be a little costly, but I believe it will be worth it.

I have never tried the pumpers for the front of a skid loader, but that might be a cheaper option.

 

[ScottK]

If it's a long distance, then get a towable pump to come that uses hose - looks like fire hose. Not a huge pumper truck.

 

[Builder]

I just had this problem this spring. Even a pumper truck wouldn't get close enough. Rather than pay the pumper truck $700 for a full day, I used my backhoe FEL bucket & just buggied the crete right to the formed area, dumped it out of the bucket and went back for more.

My 2 masons had no trouble screeding off the 1 yard piles I brought them about every 10 minutes. Worked like a charm.

We did 2 utility buildings for a sports & recreation center this way.

If you don't have a tractor with an FEL that can access the site, then rent 2 Georgia buggies. 2 guys with buggies and 2 guys with screed boards should be able to do that little job with ease.

If you use a tractor FEL, just pre soak and keep spraying the front of the tractor & FEL liberally to keep crete from sticking.

 

[Beltzington]

I have actually been thinking about foundations as well, beats actually doing the work. A couple of you have mentioned cold joints and coherent slab. Assuming you are referring to pouring all at once as opposed to a segmented pour I would like to know what is the basic rule of thumb for insuring your foundation or slab will go the distance. Since dams are not poured in a day there must be a method of binding concrete. I was thinking rebar would satisfactorily tie two separate pours together. No?

Sorry folks - looks like Westcliff already answered my question.

 

[flusher]

Do you have a tractor with a loader or a skid steer?

Have the concrete truck dump into your bucket at the end of the driveway and take off.

Good Luck,

Yooper Dave

For a 4" thick slab with footings all around, figure (20x30)x(4/12)/27=7.4 yards for the slab and maybe another 2-3 yards for the footing. Say 10 yards, which is one load for a large size truck.

The ML250 FEL on my Mahindra 5525 (54 hp engine, 45 hp pto) has 18.8 cu ft capacity and can lift 2980 lb to full height at the bucket pivot pins. That bucket full of concrete weighs about 140x18.8=2632 lb. So you'll need to make 10x(27/18.8)=14.4 trips to unload 10 yards via FEL.

Doable, but you might have to pay a little more to have the truck hang around for an hour or so while you unload it.