Do it yourself?

[dodge man]

We currently live in a area that is suppose to get a new rural watermain in the next couple of years. Maybe I'm just looking for an excuse to put a Woods backhoe on my BX2350. If they put the watermain in, I would have to lay about 650 feet of water service to my house. I work as a land surveyor for a civil engineering company, so I know that in this area the normal bury depth is 4 1/2 feet. Is this to much of a job for a backhoe on a BX2350? How long would it take roughly for me to dig a trench that long? I know I have a couple of utilities that would be in the way to work around, mainly phone and electric. I would probably hire a plumber to hook everything up after I got the pipe in the ground.

 

[F.L. Jennings]

My WL is over 1/4 mile in length and I put in the whole thing. Used 1"PVC solvent weld type pipe + fittings. Neighbor had others put his in to the tune of several bucks a lineal foot. L4200 + 9ft. Bradco backhoe.

I first plowed the whole length to mark the path and break up a few surface roots. About half of the length was through the woods. Up where you are it would probably cost a bundle for others to do it. Just check prices and compare that against backhoe cost. Even with a smaller tractor you can do some big jobs if you have the time. If you are ever going to lay additional phone lines, etc. put them in the same ditch.


Pressure test the completed line before backfilling! Preferably for a few days if temperature allows.

FJ

 

[kthompson]

I would rather use a trencher than a hoe dug ditch. It should be faster, (for me at least) more likely to be level, and less area disturbed to level back off. It can be a neat idea to place a capped off extra line in case you ever want to run another line in the same trench.

 

[F.L. Jennings]

With an expensive tractor sitting there why pay the man? Do it yourself, save money and learn.

 

[KeithInSpace]

I'd seriously consider investing in a narrower bucket. If BroTek makes a ripper, they could probably fab up a 4" or 6" wide bucket for a few bucks...

650'? That'd take a couple of long days digging, then you bed, lay, backfill, and compact...probably a solid 4 day project.

Pipe would probably run you $600 to $800, then some #57 stone, the bucket, seed, hay, and fuel.

I pay myself $80 or $100 an hour for my projects to see if I'm in the hunt on cost. On that project, say 40 hours of labor.

If someone said they'd lay that line for $2,000, I'd take them up on it. If they say $3,500, I'd think about it over a glass of wine. Over $4,000 and I'd probably do it myself. Over $5,000 and beg, borrow, or steal, I'd do it myself.

Just so I knew the answer, I'd probably check into renting a trencher capable of a 4' laying depth. It may seem like a few bucks (probably $400 to rent/deliver), but if it cuts your project time by 1/2 or 2/3, you'll be thanking yourself later. Just use your tractor around the existing utilities.

To answer your question, NOTHING (within the 6' reach) is too big for the BX with a backhoe. But there are some qualifiers that make it less sensible...

 

[dodge man]

Keith someone shot me a price of $3000 kind of off the top of their head. I also thought about renting a trencher. They make these little ones that you walk behind. The problem is that by the time I get done screwing around the existing utilities and up by the house, I'm gonna wish I had a backhoe.

 

[FullBucket]

Just to add a thought to the discussion, if you know you have rocks under the soil, you might end up needing a hoe anyway. I don't think a trencher is going to handle any rocks wider than the trench. I have glacial till under my property. Just a fancy way of saying that there's lots of rocks of every size down there. I've dug a number of shallow drainage trenches with the FEL with toothbar. A hoe would have definitely made things easier and I wasn't going as long or as deep. Food for thought. Best of luck with your project. Hope it helps justify the hoe you want

 

[KeithInSpace]

Didn't say a word about not getting the backhoe...

 

[638]

They may lay the main at 4 1/2 ft. but you don't need to lay your service that deep in central Illinois. It just doesn't get that cold there.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...doesn't get that cold there.

I'm a Civil Engineer and was wondering. We normally lay our main 3.5 feet deep here in eastern Virginia, but our services are similar...3 feet min. I was assuming that if the mains were 4.5 feet deep, that the services would be 4 feet deep.

If you're able to lay the service 3 feet deep, that would make a huge difference both in the amount of dirt you need to move with a BH (less) and the viability of a trencher being very helpful (higher).

To be clear: Still get the BH.

If the $3,000 price stuck to the wall, it's worth a thought. In my terms, I'd be a solid $1,000 or $1,200 in materials and leaving $1,800 to $2,000 available to labor, I'd need to do the job in 20 or 25 hours for it to work out. OF COURSE, if you want to save the money, God bless it. But if the hours I'd spend on the job is skewed from the hours I'd pay for, I consider just paying for it.

Case in point: I framed in one 300 sf room in my basement. It took me and my Stepdad two solid days...about 20 man-hours...to do the work. Sad, I know. I had someone come in to finish it off (drywall, electrical, etc.) and he said it would have been some $800 more to frame. That worked out to $20 per hour...I'd have been MUCH better off having him frame and me get my weekend back.

I had the same guy finish the other 1,400 sf in my basement...multiple rooms, custom windows, etc...and it took him and 3 guys exactly 2 days to frame. Would have taken me 4 freakin' months!

If you look at all my other given examples, I ended up money-good on all of them with my time spent. That is my measure of a successful project.

Totally your call on this one. Looks like you're in the hunt either way.

 

[dodge man]

No rocks in the soil, so thats not a problem. I'm pretty sure the service to my house needs to be at least 4 1/2 feet. If you are gone for a couple of days and don't have any flow in the line it can freeze. I have had my sewer line colapse between my house and septic tank twice, the second time because it wasn't fixed correctly the first time. It would have been really nice to have a backhoe then.

Keith, I like your way of thinking. I work with alot of civil engineers, my degree is in civil engineering but I never got my license as an engineer, I got into surveying and ended up getting my license as a surveyor. You don't sound like an engineer, your answers actully make sense. The trencher and a backhoe would make pretty quick work of it.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...your answers actully make sense.

I'm smiling right now. Thank you.

Degree in MECHANICAL Engineering. That's the difference.
Licensed in Civil.
Practice Civil.
Married to Civil.
Wife licensed in Civil.
Own Civil Firm.
Brother Civil.
Stepdad Civil. And Mechanical. Masters in both, amazingly.
Stepdad licensed in Civil.
Mom Civil Technician (ret).
MIL Civil Technician.
FIL Civil Technician (works for me).
Father Mechanical (ret).
Stepmom Mechanical Technician (ret).
Grandfather was Mechanical (worked on Apollo/Saturn rocket).

One could say that I have a "technical background". HA! Just came up with that one!

Don't worry...my e-mails are horribly long and difficult to understand. That's the Civil Engineer leaching in...

 

[dodge man]

Geez Keith, I bet famliy get togethers are a hoot. If something is ever broken, I bet you get about 10 opinions on what is wrong. You know the differnce between a civil engineer and a surveyor? The surveyor doesn't think he is an engineer. Sorry to get off topic.

 

[KeithInSpace]

...are a hoot.

Um, sure. We have some non-engineers that carry the parties, thank goodness. And heaven forbid it rains...everyone looks out the windows to look at the drainage flow and find low spots in the yard. It's sad, really.

You know how you can tell an extroverted engineer? He looks at the shoes of the person he's talking to instead of his own.

Get the BH. It rocks.

 

[LBrown59]

I first plowed the whole length to mark the path and break up a few surface roots. About half of the length was through the woods. Up where you are it would probably cost a bundle for others to do it. Just check prices and compare that against backhoe cost. Even with a smaller tractor you can do some big jobs if you have the time.
If you are ever going to lay additional phone lines, etc. put them in the same ditch.
FJ

If you ever have a leak or replace the line this could be a headache.

 

[skipro3]

Lay lots of extra conduit. I discovered that the phone company won't share the conduit with the cable company. It's my land, my conduit; by golly, I'll pull the dang lines in myself I said. Nope. Seems the phone company would blame the cable company if the phone went out and visa versa. Also, check for codes on laying things in the same trench as the water line. For example, you can't lay water and power in the same trench. There are minimum spacing between them too. Well, in California anyway. I have a 3/4" meter feeding my property. I installed 2 lines of 2" pipe. It made a huge difference in water volume at the house. Seems water does have resistance in the pipe. If I had run a 3/4" line from my 3/4" meter, I wouldn't have near the flow. I have 2 water lines; one is a spare. If there's ever a leak in the main line, then I have a spare and don't have to dig it all up again. Also, it's a bullet straight run. I could just expose each end and slide a smaller diameter pipe inside the leaky one if need be. I also installed a few T's on the line and capped them in case I ever wanted to tap the water line between the meter and the house. Just think about any possible needs for water along the route and drop in a T with a ball cock on it.

****EDIT****
Oh, and get the backhoe. Life's too short not to have some fun. And don't spend as much time as Keith analizing (sic) the value of doing your own labor. If you don't have cash to pay the pro, and the difference in getting a job done is by your labor to save costs or not doing it at all, then do the labor. Besides, there is a sense of job satisfaction by doing it yourself. Unless your quality of life is better than most, (sitting in front of the boob tube watching Survivor for example), your time doing your labor is probably the best thing you can do for yourself. It's good physically, mentally and spiritually.

(Just joking with you Keith!!)

 

[Berniep]

I vote to get the backhoe and unless you are really pushed for time, or your soil is really hard to dig in for some reason, and you are going to get it delivered instead of picking it up(that really eats into your time) I wouldn't get the trencher. For me there has to be a big time VS cost savings, like the 3 days VS 4 months example above. Things don't get done around here as fast as if I would just hire out but then I wouldn't be able to afford my tractor in the first place.

 

[MarkV]

As a side note, if you do decide to use a trencher do not get a walk behind. They will beat you up and most walk behinds will not cut as deep as you are talking.

MarkV

 

[ray66v]

I'd seriously consider investing in a narrower bucket. If BroTek makes a ripper, they could probably fab up a 4" or 6" wide bucket for a few bucks...

The reason you don't see 4-6" buckets for sale, is they are generally not practical. Believe me, I have one.

The bucket won't empty if you have wet clay soil, it will clog on every bite, and often requires getting off the machine and manually removing the dirt with a pry bar. The other problem is, you can't see very much once you put the bucket into the hole, The view where your digging is completely blocked, so you dig by "feel" and instinct. These both slow things down. Sometimes, really slow.

If the ground is very dry, and I'm not digging deep, (more than 24") then, I don't mind using the 6".

To do what your contemplating doing, with a 6" bucket, could be a nightmare.

A 6" trencher would be better. But, your likely to have some cave ins' on a run that long, and its not easy to clear them out of a hole that deep, when is only 6" wide, sometimes its impossible. If you use a trencher, I would buy a coil of pipe, and put it in the hole, immediately, right behind the trencher.

I suggest you dig the hole with a 12" bucket. The dirt sticks much less in a 12". It will handle the rocks, and you can get in the hole and shovel out any cave ins', if needed.

Around here at least, any excavator would tell you the same thing.

 

[Wheatland KB]

I think what you have here is great justification for a BH purchace.