Thinking about welders

Rowdius · Nov 14, 2008

I have access to a decent mig machine and a brother who is a pro for welds that I can't do, but that is 20 miles one way, and he doesn't like to be bothered at three in the morning when I read something on TBN! So, I have been thinking about picking up a machine for my little shop.

I lay pretty good mig beads, and so-so stick beads, but with prices for welders, I am going to get a stick welder. Practice will make my stick work improve anyway.

So, I've been considering a Lincoln 225AC or the Lincoln 225AC/DC (you know, the tombstone buzz box). Of course the AC/DC would be better. Locally the 225AC runs about $270 new, and only slightly less than that used, at least the few I have found. The AC/DC is a little harder to find (of course I just started looking today though) but there is a nearly new looking one in a pawnshop here for $360 I think.

What do you think of these prices? Any other suggestions? Right now $360 a little more than I want to pay, but I'd rather go ahead and do it, if it is a deal that won't be around later.

Bird · Nov 14, 2008

I've never used an AC/DC tombstone, but I learned to stick two pieces of metal together on the 225AC machine and really liked it. Is the AC/DC machine worth the cost difference? Probably not, to me, but it might be to a lot of our more knowledgeable welding members.

Rowdius · Nov 14, 2008

Bird said:
Is the AC/DC machine worth the cost difference? Probably not, to me, but it might be to a lot of our more knowledgeable welding members.

Yeah, that is one of the questions in my head. The DC side would allow me to go a little thinner without burning holes, but then I have a little cheapy 110v wire feed that does an _okay_ job on thin stuff, and access to the big mig welder too. The home depot (yeah, I know) website is showing the 225AC/DC machine for over $600, so the $360 price at the pawn shop sounds pretty good... If I want the DC. Being able to pick up the 225AC for a hundred bucks less brand new is something to think about.

I learned on a mig machine, and so I've never been excited about stick, but than again, I never used an auto-darkening mask until a few months ago. I'd like to try stick again with it, maybe I'll "stick" with it this time.

ugh

Edited to add...
Hmm, the HD site is showing the AC/DC machine for $390 now... Pehaps I was looking at a different site. In any case, I'm going to check out some local welding stores tomorrow, I'd rather give them the money if possible

patrick_g · Nov 14, 2008

If you weld a bit with the AC/DC tombstone using DC and then try welding with AC it is altogether likely you will prefer the DC ability of the AC/DC version.

The machine will most likely outlive you and your heirs so on an annualized basis it is not very expensive.

I bought my AC/DC Lincoln 10-15 years ago and abuse the devil out of it and it is as good as new.

Typically I only use AC when I use BIG rod and turn it up all the way to use it as a cutting torch substitute instead of having to transition to the plasma cutter.

Pat

bialecki · Nov 14, 2008

Check out www.Craigslist.com Look around, in a short time I am sure you can find a nice used welder, mig or stick. I found my TIG that way, it took me about 6 weeks and I am glad I searched. Buying used you can get some good deals where a tank, supplies, wire, cart etc. are usually thrown in.

bobodu · Nov 15, 2008

With patience, you can often find an OLD copper wound tombstone for under $100 at sales and auctions. I paid $85 three years ago. There are plans on the internet for building a converter to DC and that is another winter project for me.

polo1665 · Nov 15, 2008

Rowdius said:
I have access to a decent mig machine and a brother who is a pro for welds that I can't do, but that is 20 miles one way, and he doesn't like to be bothered at three in the morning when I read something on TBN! So, I have been thinking about picking up a machine for my little shop.

I lay pretty good mig beads, and so-so stick beads, but with prices for welders, I am going to get a stick welder. Practice will make my stick work improve anyway.

So, I've been considering a Lincoln 225AC or the Lincoln 225AC/DC (you know, the tombstone buzz box). Of course the AC/DC would be better. Locally the 225AC runs about $270 new, and only slightly less than that used, at least the few I have found. The AC/DC is a little harder to find (of course I just started looking today though) but there is a nearly new looking one in a pawnshop here for $360 I think.

What do you think of these prices? Any other suggestions? Right now $360 a little more than I want to pay, but I'd rather go ahead and do it, if it is a deal that won't be around later.

I paid $450 for my Hobart 225 AC/DC (new). It seems to me that $360 would be a good price if in good condition. Sounds like you've already got some experience under your belt, I'm still learning.

Mark

Butters · Nov 15, 2008

Rowdius said:
I have access to a decent mig machine and a brother who is a pro for welds that I can't do, but that is 20 miles one way, and he doesn't like to be bothered at three in the morning when I read something on TBN! So, I have been thinking about picking up a machine for my little shop.

I lay pretty good mig beads, and so-so stick beads, but with prices for welders, I am going to get a stick welder. Practice will make my stick work improve anyway.

So, I've been considering a Lincoln 225AC or the Lincoln 225AC/DC (you know, the tombstone buzz box). Of course the AC/DC would be better. Locally the 225AC runs about $270 new, and only slightly less than that used, at least the few I have found. The AC/DC is a little harder to find (of course I just started looking today though) but there is a nearly new looking one in a pawnshop here for $360 I think.

What do you think of these prices? Any other suggestions? Right now $360 a little more than I want to pay, but I'd rather go ahead and do it, if it is a deal that won't be around later.

The Lincoln AC/DC for $360 is a good basic welder that will outlive all of us. You will enjoy running 7018 rods on DCEP. very nice beads with little effort.

AJ Clark · Nov 15, 2008

AC/DC machines are a world above AC machines. I have been welding professionally for 12 years and you could not pay me to :burn rod" with a AC. DC will give you a more stable arc which will allow more penetration and fusion to the root of the joint your welding. Arc(stick) welding with DC, in my opinion, would be easier to learn and is well worth the money you have to shell out to get DC. I have a Miller Thunderbolt XL that is 220V and a 110V Lincoln mig welder for home use as well as a engine driver Miller Bobcat 250 for a weekend money maker. As for a welder you want to keep and use for a long time..... spend the extra money to get something you will not regret later. I highly recommend a AC/DC arc welding machine............just my 2 cents.... I bet if you perfect your welding skills in DC polarity and then go back to AC....it's like going in time... not in a good way either.

Jeepnford · Nov 15, 2008

When I started welding school the instructor said if you had an AC/DC machine pretend the AC side didn't work. It didn't take long to understand.

Rowdius · Nov 15, 2008

Well, it pays to talk to family sometimes. Got to talking to my dad about welding machines, and he mentioned that he still had my grandfather's machine put up in his shop. My grandfather used in his drilling buisness decades ago. Went out to the place, plugged it in, and works beautifully.

It is only an AC machine, but for free... yeah. Miller M-295 250 amp welding machine that goes 25A-250A.

I'm still going to be in the market for another machine, but right now I'm going to play with this.

Here is a picture of my "new" welding machine, and my newer welding cart.

Thanks for all the help!

bobodu · Nov 15, 2008

You got a good one at a great price!!
Look into building a rectifier and you won't need another machine. I still toying with the rectifier idea,but my Lincarc fires right up if I ever want DC.

easygo · Nov 16, 2008

That is one nice old machine you got there. I recently bought a Hobart Stickmate AC/DC machine after reading many of the posts here. Before the purchase I was able to barrow an old AC/DC buzzbox from a friend and the DC option did make a big difference even for a weekend warrior like me. I practiced a lot with both AC and DC to see the difference. So I payed the extra $$$. Non the less. You can run some good beads with AC after some practice. For thinner stuff get a box of E6013 electrodes (super easy to use). They are not as deep penetrating as the E6011 and make a hack of a pretty weld.

cleatus · Nov 22, 2008

I picked this idealark last weekend for $200 with 50ft of lead and ground. It's a 1958 with the switch in upper right to change from DC+, DC- or AC. After running a few beads with DC+ and 6011, I dought I'll be using AC much at all. The only negitive is it's 3 times bigger than my tombstone AC.

AJ Clark · Nov 22, 2008

Cleatus, with the price of copper as high as it is, you would pay 200 bucks or more for just the cables...... I think you got a great deal... those old welders last for ever.

patrick_g · Nov 23, 2008

I just bought 120 feet of #2 welding cable for my AC/DC tombstone. A local welding supply chain (James Supply) had the wire for $0.25 cents a foot less than Atwoods. I extended the 9 ft original ground cable and the 15 ft HOT lead. I am using Tweeco (SP?) connectors so I can use half +/- of the hot lead and insert the other half if I need it to reach a job. I have mounted the tombstone on a small 4x8 deck size trailer and although it is maneuverable it still requires longer leads as it is not as maneuverable as the tombstone on wheels was.

Terrific price performance ratio on Grand dads old welder. I second the opinion regarding adding a rectifier to it to get DC. A full wave bridge is the style of rectifier you need. You should be able to DIY for a decent price. Do not skimp on aluminum for mounting the diodes and do use a fan for forced air cooling. You don't have to buy special finned heatsinks as extruded aluminum angle will work fine but it has to be pretty heavy wall to work right. If you use thin material the fan can cool the aluminum at a distance from the diodes while the diodes are way too hot and failing from overheat. Alternator diodes are mass produced so are a good choice. They press in.

There are lots of guys on TBN with electronics backgrounds who could advise you. I have worked on a portable battery operated welder project in the past and built the prototype electronics including the rectifiers.

Pat