Just like what PTO intensive jobs that a gear transmission's 5% makes a noticeable difference for that same 99.999% ?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I have not argued that the loss of PTO HP is meaningful. I agree with you, it isn't. But that hardly changes my point regarding the importance of loader efficiency in the lives of people who use CUTs in their leisure time.
You can't often buy a larger sized attachment based on 1-2 more hp.
Again, not the point. Not arguing loss of PTO HP. I have been talking about the loss in drawbar HP in geared vs HST tractors of
comparable price. I'm not sure why that won't sink in.
Let me illustrate (again). Take a Kubota
L4400 gear tractor like mine. Put a 7' disk behind it, or a two bottom plow. Run it in conditions in which the tractor functions well and properly, or only just barely. Take that same
L4400 but with HST and about $2000 more in price and it is going to go from situations in which the gear tractor is functioning well to barely functioning and where the gear tractor is barely functioning properly, the HST will not.
That's all there is to it. This does not detract from any of the great things about HST. All those things are still true and wonderful, but they don't and can't change the scenario I've described above.
And if $$ are a concern the added cost of the larger attachment needs to be considered too.
Maybe, maybe not. It might just be the difference of just getting by with a 7 foot disk on an HST and getting by with ease on a geared machine.
But... These "theoretical" argumentative points are delving down into the nit-picking area.
I disagree. Many of them can have practical applications both in favor of HST and geared. I know for a fact that I could not have accomplished the things that I have done with my geared
L4400 with an HST
L4400 because I have pushed the geared tractor to its limits. But even THAT is not the issue. I had about $18,500 to spend on a tractor. That money would have purchased a 32 HP HST, max. And THAT tractor could not have touched what I have done and what I do with a 45 HP tractor. Its just that simple.
And you can dismiss my experience as unique, if you wish, but then we must also dismiss the notion that someone's HST is improving their family life because they are more efficient with a loader!
The tractors with hst are often the ones that are also "feature encrusted" as one poster put it where the gear tractors are "economy". Not a real fair comparison as the hst is blamed for all the cost differential.
This is true. In the CUT market HST is sold as a luxury and it comes with luxury appointments. But those of us with a budget cannot help that. We can't ask them to remove the nicer seat, fancy dash or heated cupholders.
But you are right, the cost is distributed among those things, which is why I usually use the
L4400 as my example. They are virtually identical except for the tranny and the cost between them is something like $2000. Maybe less.
Some seem to be against any improvements. I'll bet they wish they had a hand crank on the front of the machine too. Then they could get rid of the alternator and have a 74" cutter.
That is obviously silly for several reasons. Most of us buy what we can get with our money. But if you want to take your analogy to its ridiculous ends, yes, I'd have gone with a 45 hp hand cranker before I would have paid more for a 5 HP HST with moonroof. But the other reason it is silly is that some of us just know what we want and why we want it. If money was no object, I still would not purchase an HST. I would purchase a fully synched gear tractor with shuttle shift. End of story.
Why does it make a difference what a person that you will never see buys?
It is usually because a potential buyer comes here for advice and asks us which type we think they should get. They usually don't have any clear idea of their actual needs or their actual budget and that adds to the confusion. The thread then typically occupies many pages because people won't listen to one another, won't think rationally and others simply exist to egg on the confusion.
