Gear drive vs hydro

[Reg]

My summary is

hp loss with HST is very small.. if this is a problem, wrong tractor for you
yes, you can run high RPMs for PTO speed yet infinite creep from 0 mph.
Personally, my legs and arms are much less tired using HST all day.
HST is extremely reliable, reported failures near or at zero

For me, HST is most beneficial when lifting 2800 lbs concrete culvert with FEL and seeking to set it precisely within .25 inches on a ground location while avoiding bounces and hydraulic surges. Extreme slow speed and ease of operation allows me to focus on ground conditions, tilt, are the wheels on the ground or is a rollover beginning... and to drop load/correct before it all goes topsy turvy. This is what I mean by precision....

Yes, it BECOMES the wrong tractor.
The RIGHT tractor has a lot more power, weight and other features for about the same price because it is a whole model size bigger.
It isn't about the power loss in the hydro trans, it is about the power (hp, features and weight) loss in the whole tractor for a given purchase price.
You have to DOWNSIZE the tractor to get Hydro for approx the same money.

Of COURSE I'm assuming a fixed purchase price, my resources DO have limits.
I suspect everyone else's do.

 

[jake98]

delete

 

[MossRoad]

To me a spinner is just something to break your knuckles when your front wheels hit something and the wheel is ripped out of your hands.

Andy

My tractor is articulated. I can hit stuff with the front tires all day and the spinner never moves.

 

[MossRoad]

No, I thought I made it very very clear that I had driven one in a parking lot once.

You need to get with a friend that has a hydro tractor and do some work with it. Really put one through its paces. You'll have fun!

 

[MossRoad]

So, it sounds like you're saying that your shifting is smoother than infinately variable? I think you can compare the hydro to a snowmobile variable belt thing.

I'm curious about the PTO hp, were you guys saying you get less at pto with hydro? I'm gonna have to check that...

Jake

The loss of HP can be confusing.

If a tractor is rated at 50 engine HP on a gear tractor and 50 engine HP on a hydro tractor, there will most likely be less PTO HP on the hydro model.

However, if you buy a gear tractor rated for 50 PTO HP or a hydro tractor rated at 50 PTO HP, you get 50 PTO HP no matter which transmission you have. The engine in the hydro will most likely be larger to make up the difference.

And most tractors are rated at PTO HP, not engine HP. So, you should figure out what implements you need to power, which transmission you prefer to use, and then find a tractor that will provide the PTO HP that you need to operate those implements.

 

[MossRoad]

It becomes apparent in these gear VS hydro threads that some of us that are saying we prefer gear tractors over hydro tractors have never, ever been on a hydro tractor doing any work!

FOLKS!!! Get out there and put a hydro tractor through its paces with your butt in the seat. I mean really work one for a few days. You will really appreciate the tool for what it is.

 

[WilliamBos]

It becomes apparent in these gear VS hydro threads that some of us that are saying we prefer gear tractors over hydro tractors have never, ever been on a hydro tractor doing any work!

FOLKS!!! Get out there and put a hydro tractor through its paces with your butt in the seat. I mean really work one for a few days. You will really appreciate the tool for what it is.

Well said. Don't think any less of them. because those who do, can or will be proven wrong.

 

[Egon]

It becomes apparent in these gear VS hydro threads that some of us that are saying we prefer gear tractors over hydro tractors have never, ever been on a hydro tractor doing any work!

Please, do not confuse the issue with empirical facts gained from experience!

 

[N80]

You need to get with a friend that has a hydro tractor and do some work with it. Really put one through its paces. You'll have fun!

I don't let friends drive hydros.

 

[N80]

Please, do not confuse the issue with empirical facts gained from experience!

In the world of experience there can be empirical observations but very few empirical facts.

 

[patrick_g]

Someone (might as well be me) is obligated to point out that with a gear transmission you CAN KNOW your actual ground speed, which can matter for some spreading or spraying tasks.

Funny but I had always thought my speedometer was measuring actual ground speed (hydrostatic tranny) irrespective of my gear range selection (low medium or high), hydrostat pedal position (going forward), or my RPM (as registered by my tachometer.)

Pat

 

[jake98]

In the world of experience there can be empirical observations but very few empirical facts.

george, you guys are jerky,

i remember once i called u and a few knuckkelheads, and you pointed out that you didn't know how to respond to somebody that can't spell knuckel...
we been callin evebody 'nukeheads' since...
Jake

ps i cant be here now since i have to do the 'pandora radio addiction thing...'
go popa chubbie on there

 

[N80]

The loss of HP can be confusing.

You've got that right, but it is more confusing than what you've just explained.

As you say, there is some loss of HP at the PTO, but not much.

There is no (or trivial) loss of HP at the engine.

But I would assume that engine HP is measured at the flywheel or some point shy of where the wheels contact the ground, which is where it matters and what we never get specs on.

I'd guess, but might be wrong, that given the same engine HP a geared tractor is going to transfer more of that HP to the ground than an HST.

So if I'm right, its not just a simple matter of what your PTO has to turn.

But finally, as it has been stated so many times, the real issue for the vast number of us who do not have unlimited incomes is not how much HST skims HP from any given machine, but how much more HP you can BUY with a geared vs a hydro tractor.

 

[Egon]

In the world of experience there can be empirical observations but very few empirical facts

Yup; nothing like a little time spent using a system before you speak volumes about it. Next thing one knows the common man may start preforming operations of some sort!

There is a degree of accountability is there not; be it professional or not?

Pat;some disinformation on ground speed as shown by the dash indicators. I believe the optimum traction is delivered at with approximately 10% ?? slippage of the driving wheels. An indication that perhaps a GPS system may be more accurate.

 

[N80]

george, you guys are jerky,

I've been called worse, even by people who recognize sarcasm.

i remember once i called u and a few knuckkelheads, and you pointed out that you didn't know how to respond to somebody that can't spell knuckel...

I don't remember that.....but I'm sure its gotten lost in the countless times I've been called knucklehead....today.

we been callin evebody 'nukeheads' since...

Well, I think that is something altogether different different from a knucklehead, and I don't think I mind being called a nukehead at all.

ps i cant be here now since i have to do the 'pandora radio addiction thing...'
go popa chubbie on there

I think it is great that we are multilingual here at TBN.

 

[MossRoad]

You've got that right, but it is more confusing than what you've just explained.

As you say, there is some loss of HP at the PTO, but not much.

There is no (or trivial) loss of HP at the engine.

But I would assume that engine HP is measured at the flywheel or some point shy of where the wheels contact the ground, which is where it matters and what we never get specs on.

I'd guess, but might be wrong, that given the same engine HP a geared tractor is going to transfer more of that HP to the ground than an HST.

So if I'm right, its not just a simple matter of what your PTO has to turn.

But finally, as it has been stated so many times, the real issue for the vast number of us who do not have unlimited incomes is not how much HST skims HP from any given machine, but how much more HP you can BUY with a geared vs a hydro tractor.

The question I answered asked about PTO HP, not power to the ground.

 

[N80]

Yup; nothing like a little time spent using a system before you speak volumes about it.

Maybe, but I hardly need to hit myself in the thumb with a hammer to know that it hurts.

Next thing one knows the common man may start preforming operations of some sort!

I think very common folks perform all sorts of operations all the time.

There is a degree of accountability is there not; be it professional or not?

You've thoroughly lost me......and it feels kinda nice.

Pat;some disinformation on ground speed as shown by the dash indicators. I believe the optimum traction is delivered at with approximately 10% ?? slippage of the driving wheels. An indication that perhaps a GPS system may be more accurate.

I would think simple experience would suffice, no?

 

[MossRoad]

Yup; nothing like a little time spent using a system before you speak volumes about it. Next thing one knows the common man may start preforming operations of some sort!

There is a degree of accountability is there not; be it professional or not?

Pat;some disinformation on ground speed as shown by the dash indicators. I believe the optimum traction is delivered at with approximately 10% ?? slippage of the driving wheels. An indication that perhaps a GPS system may be more accurate.

Hey, where is the speedometer take off on a tractor, anyhow? I don't have a speedometer on my little PT425 and I don't believe my old IH had one, either.

 

[patrick_g]

But finally, as it has been stated so many times, the real issue for the vast number of us who do not have unlimited incomes is not how much HST skims HP from any given machine, but how much more HP you can BUY with a geared vs a hydro tractor.

So what is the typical HP difference, something like a couple percent at most???

I'd gladly trade off a couple percent for the distinct advantages of HST.

I fail to see the implied importance of the difference.

...and Egon, what has reality to do with much of this discussion? Limiting the exchange to only those with reasonable experience on both geared and HST tractors would eliminate so much colorful opinion-expression based on (well based on ... hmm well it would eliminate a lot of baseless opinions) and reduce the entertainment index of the thread.

Pat

 

[Egon]

[QUOTEI would think simple experience would suffice, no?][/QUOTE]

It sure would when one when one is pontificating.

Otherwise one may become confused by the pontifications and actually come under the delusions that confusions from improper pontifications were actually empirical observations of the delusional variety.

May whatever Deity in fashion have mercy on the patients.