Wood splitter auto cycle

[firewoodman]

Beenthere's reply asking if you were looking for "no hands" pretty much speaks for me. Hope you work alone when using something like this. Time is much cheaper than the alternative when doing this type of work. Sorry to sound like this, but I cut and split a lot and it's always safety first. Keith

 

[drzmatt]

Glenn could you post a picture of how the valves are plumbed. I don't know why everyone is so afraid of a wood splitter. In my own opinion I would feel much safer splitting wood by myself with a splitter with auto cycle than to split wood with someone else running the lever on a conventional splitter. In an earlier post that talked about nearly cutting off a hand that was a two man operation. You can't even blame that on auto cycle. Everyone's concern is wasted on me, I want auto cycle on my splitter, I don't care how many hands, fingers and feet that it has amputated. I just want to know how to install it.

 

[ronjhall]

Check out Timber wolf's site. They have manuals for their splitters in pdf format. I did not see any schematics but there are some good photos of their dual valves.

 

[gav64]

drzmatt,
try the prince hydraulic website, go to valves, then rd5000 auto cycle valve and print out manual, 6 pages, it gives a great schematic which will be clearer than a photo. it's the exact manual packaged with the valve. Make sure to get power beyond in case you want to add wedge adjust or lift in the future. glenn.

 

[ronjhall]

glenn
Your right. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Prince Hydraulics has a lot more information than a picture.

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( You are not stating the Auto Cycle correctly.

The below quote is from a post you made back last summer. It is not the same thing that you are recommending and using on your splitter. )</font>

Ron,

I fully understand that the valve I proposed is not a true Auto-Cycle like Timberwolf offers - and thought that that would be apparent from the several posts I made. I tried to point out the differences and the similarites. And actually my post from last summer is slightly incorrect - I should have said:

I see they use two separate spools to to do it - one apparently for the split, and another for the return stoke.

The second double spool valve in the Timberwolf manual is for hydraulic log lift and hydraulic wedge lift.

 

[ronjhall]

I guess I get too concerned about fellow TBNer's safety.
Your system will work. But it does not have the built in safety that Timber wolf has with their 2 spool design. Below is a copy of the explanation of how to operate their auto cycle.

The auto-cycle hydraulic control valve frees you to get
the next log ready while one is being split.
Hold down the two auto-cycle valve handles to start
the push block forward.
Release valve handles as log begins to split.
Cylinder automatically completes forward and return
strokes, leaving push block set for next cycle.
Forward and return valve handles pop up separately at
end of forward and return strokes.

From the description above both handles have to be held until log starts splitting. Then splitter will continue its auto cycle.

 

[JimR]

Ron, that sounds like a pressure type system. It has to have pressure to lock in? Sounds like a safety feature.

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I guess I get too concerned about fellow TBNer's safety. )</font>

I can't speak for anyone else, but I certainly appreciate any concern you might have for my safety /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Your system will work. )</font>

Yes, I know it will - afterall it is a Prince LS3010-2 logsplitter valve. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( But it does not have the built in safety that Timber wolf has with their 2 spool design. Below is a copy of the explanation of how to operate their auto cycle. )</font>

Not to beat this subject to death but I'm a little unclear as to how the Timberwolf auto-cycle is "safer" than what I have.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( From the description above both handles have to be held until log starts splitting. Then splitter will continue its auto cycle. )</font>

I'd be willing to bet that the one can activate spool which controls cylinder extension and put it into detent without doing anything with the other spool - net result would be that the cylinder would just not auto retract when it completed it's travel.

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Ron, that sounds like a pressure type system. It has to have pressure to lock in? Sounds like a safety feature. )</font>

It could be that (safety feature) - or it could be that in order for the auto-return stroke to work properly (or at all) both spools must be activated at the same time and the pressure against the log is required to hold them in detent.

FWIW, the spool which controls the forward stroke can also be used for manual operation of both extending and retracting the cylinder.

 

[beenthere]

This 'back and forth' discussion is great and helping me further understand what each is saying.

Rswyan: the suggestion "pressure against the log is required to hold them in detent" is interesting, and I wonder if the cycle would then stop/return if that pressure decreased during the 'split' when the normally straight-grain log splits early? This feature would be great, if the full stroke of the cylinder wouldn't happen if not necessary. However, there then might be the occasional log that split half way through the stroke, and the full separation of the two pieces hadn't happened yet (some just have to be shoved the full distance to sever those last remaining wood fibers).
Good discussion, and you guys are not always agreeing, but not losing your cool. Great to see.
I've learned a lot (and I thought I knew everything /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif )

Also re-thinking the auto-cycle idea as this thread unfolds. I posted a message earlier that didn't 'send' (often find that the advertising headers take up the first screen and I think I've sent the message, but it is sitting waiting for my preview, and I jump to something else and don't hit 'continue') and as the thread developed, I am glad I didn't send it.

 

[ronjhall]

One thing I did not like with the detented valve. When used in cold weather the valve always wanted to trip because of cold oil. Took most of a hour to get the auto return feature to work properly.

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I wonder if the cycle would then stop/return if that pressure decreased during the 'split' when the normally straight-grain log splits early? This feature would be great, if the full stroke of the cylinder wouldn't happen if not necessary. )</font>

Don't know it for a fact, but I would think it would - since from what I can tell the second valve is designed to operate the return stroke whenever the first comes out of detent.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( However, there then might be the occasional log that split half way through the stroke, and the full separation of the two pieces hadn't happened yet (some just have to be shoved the full distance to sever those last remaining wood fibers). )</font>

That's the downside to 'automatic anything' - there is never a replacement for having some actual human intelligence there on the scene for when things don't go exactly as anticipated. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Good discussion, and you guys are not always agreeing, but not losing your cool. Great to see. I've learned a lot (and I thought I knew everything ) )</font>

Yup - same here - I didn't even know that an actual 'auto-cycle' valve that was commercially available even existed - inspite of having the Prince catalog that it's in. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

And the thing ron brings up about the effect of operating in the cold with a detent valve was something I hadn't even considered. Be interesting to see how bad it is on my splitter - I'm using a fairly large tank (10 gal) compared to most that I've seen and I imagine that it will take quite awhile to warm the fluid up to any appreciable degree .... although the fluid I got from TSC is supposed to be rated for fairly cold weather. Ideally, this coming year I will have gotten all the splitting done before the cold weather arrives.

Over the years (the last dozen or so) I've been involved in many discussion threads on the internet, and suffice it to say that there have been many, many times I wish my trigger finder hadn't been quite so itchy. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Especially when you consider the fact that one's posts may be archived via something like Google practically forever. I was amazed when at some of the stuff I found that I had posted years ago ....... ooops ! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[beenthere]

I have not noticed a 'cold oil' problem with the detent function on my splitter. Cold being -10 F, and it stays in detent (functions on the return) until it is kicked out by a mechanical stop. At least to my knowledge. I wonder if moisture could be causing some ice crystals in the spool area, or some build-up of 'dirt', or a chewed-up O-ring? Might be worth a look-see if it is a nuisance. At real cold temps, I probably would be hiking for a warm spot myself before an hour is up to get that oil warm. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[rswyan]

Glenn,

Just curious - how has the autocycle valve been working out for you ?

Works pretty well for the most part ?

 

[rswyan]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I just want to know were to get one. I can't believe that it is a total secret. Someone must know where to get one. )</font>

I finally got around to locating a source and getting pricing. Surplus Center doesn't have any of the autocycle valves at the moment and Prince has discontinued their Prince Direct operation, so Glenn appears to have gotten a really great deal that maybe isn't available right now (unless you are aware of a distributor that has an over stock on these valves.)

These autocycle valves come in four models - the differences are 1/2" NPT or 3/4" NPT workports and PowerBeyond/No PowerBeyond - so a total of four different possible combinations.

All models except the 3/4" workport with No Power Beyond (3rd one below) have a small quantity surcharge of $61.90 to be added to the list price for quantities of less than 10 (meaning theoretically that the distributor will get charged if they buy less than that - of course this would be passed onto the customer I'd imagine) - the list pricing is as follows:

RD523MMEE5A1A1 - $318.50 (1/2" W.P., Not PowerBeyond Capable)
(Not currently available, estimated build time: several months)

RD522MMEE5A4B1 - $322.10 (1/2" W.P., PowerBeyond Capable)
(7 instock and available, 3-4 day delivery)

RD523MMEE5A1A1 - $318.50 (3/4" W.P., Not PowerBeyond Capable)
(57 instock and available, 3-4 day delivery)

RD523MMEE5A4B1 - $322.10 (3/4" W.P., PowerBeyond Capable)
(Not currently available, estimated build time: several months)

I am not sure whether or not the list prices above include the small quantity surcharge or not. The actual pricing I got included a significant discount from the list prices above.

Personally, I'm interested in the second valve in the list - I'm using 1/2" NPTF hoses going to my cylinder anyways and it seems silly not to get PowerBeyond capability for the couple extra bucks it costs (to use the PowerBeyond feature requires swapping out the installed conversion plug from the PowerBeyond port and installing a PowerBeyond plug which lists for $13.50)

Would anyone here be interested in a group purchase of several valves ? If so, drop me a PM.

 

[gav64]

This thread is like the energizer bunny, my valve has worked out great for me, i have had to adjust it on occasion (2 wrenches) thats why you need the pressure gauge and snubber installed, really hot fluid in the summer and really cold tend to cause the detents to act up as someone previously posted, adjustment takes a few seconds i keep a few tools at the splitter in a wp box. I would not ever get a splitter without one, once you use it you will never go back, the productivity increase is amazing. now to just add the adjustable wedge in the spring. good luck to all.

 

[ronjhall]

I guess spring got here sooner than I thought. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Got some pictures today of my Auto Return.
First picture is showing the pusher and wedge.

 

[ronjhall]

next picture is from opposite side of splitter showing the linkage and stop.
There are other pictures if more detail is needed.