Winco PTO Generator

[Fallon]

Well, should I go with more than 15K? There is a 20K or 25K that looks good. I probably only need 10K to 12K.

At a certain point you are just wasting money going to big. I'd go at least 1 size bigger than your maximum load.

Really, you need to determine what your maximum load is, otherwise you are just shooting in the dark. You have 2 easyish options:

Turn every thing on & decipher how fast your meter is spinning.
Read manuals and/or power supplies for the maximum wattage of all the stuff that is likely to possibly be on at the same time (likely to be a fair bit high as those are maximum ratings & most devices generally pull 40-80% of their max rating).

Personally I didn't take this advice & just used some dead reckoning to do a ballpark guess that what I was looking at on Craigslist would fit. I've got some decent guesses as to my max load though & am fine risking popping a breaker if I'm wrong.

25kw / 240v = 100ish amps. My breaker pannel is rated to 250 amps. So I can run a little under half what my breaker panel could supply.

I've never come close to tripping my breaker panel while the wife was cooking & doing laundry (add in hot water heater & well pump to washer/drier) while the furnace was running. I was up in the shop running an air compressor, welding & stuff. I figure that's a worst case scenario & we won't be doing all of that at once so should be fine. Worst case scenario I manually flip a few breakers to keep the wife from doing laundry or something.

 

[ishiboo]

Does 15K sound like enough for a newer average house with A/C, well and furnace? I've got a Generac gas engine 10K/12K surge now and it seems fine. 10K seems too little and 15K too much but better more than less? Do you prefer 3 pt mounted or trailer?

Is the furnace electric or gas? If electric, is it heat pump or resistance heat? How many AC units? Is the water heater/stove/etc. electric or gas? If you have a large electric infrastructure, you can eat up 15kw pretty easily if you have a few things running, even if your average draw is only 1KW.

I personally prefer the 3-point mount, it's more rigid in the case of big startup loads, easy to back up (short trailers SUCK to back up with), etc.

I had a 25KW Katolight I picked up for $300-350 on a trailer... pretty nice trailer with an adjustable tongue, real clean 1800RPM Made in USA generator. Found I would rather put the 7kw generator on and not worry about running the tractor balls out the whole time, the exposed driveline, etc. despite not being able to use the stove or AC. Ended up selling it and made some decent cash. Before I would put out thousands for a new PTO generator, I would look at a used diesel or propane/nat gas generator set.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I agree on the used genset idea. There are some really sweet commercial and often military hardly used gensets on E-Bay all the time. I wouldn't give you five cents for a consumer grade (lawn mower in a box) genset.

I never detected any issue with torque on my 15K PTO. In fact, as I mentioned, the chicken barn I got it from just had it sitting on some blocks, not even bolted down!

 

[ccsial]

Thanks for ll the replies.

After a lot of thought I decided to go with a Winco 9KW propane unit with a Vanguard engine. It can be next to my Kohler in the garage and run off the same 500 gallon tank. My biggest problem with the PTO unit is not having the tractor available for snow blowing and also having to take the blower or mower off and put the generator on.

My Kohler can run everything as normal including the climate control in my house and shop. The small one would get us by in a pinch.

In any case, the Winco seems like good equipment and gets good reviews.

Winco recommends running the PTO unit at least every 6 months under load to keep moisture out.

Hopefully my Kohler industrial will not have an issue. I don't worry about the Ford engine as much as the electronics.

 

[TractorGuy]

I just purchased a 15,000 watt made in china pto generator from Agri Supply for 1295.



Been running it for a while off and on today. It's all my little 855 can handle when I use the hot water heater. I leave all the 120 circuits on and alternate any 240 demands.

 

[CADplans]

I just purchased a 15,000 watt made in china pto generator from Agri Supply for 1295.

View attachment 479532

Been running it for a while off and on today. It's all my little 855 can handle when I use the hot water heater. I leave all the 120 circuits on and alternate any 240 demands.

I am surprised your 855 has issues with the water heater,,,,
My 10KW generator (Miller welder) with 22HP doesn't even know the water heater, 240 volt deep well pump, and 3 fridges are on!!

I bought an 855 last summer,,, it seems like it has 22 HP,,,

It sure will power the 5' Woods RFM through a TALL (8 to 10 inches) lawn,,, (the rain has stopped mowing for long periods this summer)
My 18HP Cub Cadet with a 60" deck would never even consider cutting that grass,,, Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,

 

[TractorGuy]

I am surprised your 855 has issues with the water heater,,,,
My 10KW generator (Miller welder) with 22HP doesn't even know the water heater, 240 volt deep well pump, and 3 fridges are on!!

I bought an 855 last summer,,, it seems like it has 22 HP,,,

It sure will power the 5' Woods RFM through a TALL (8 to 10 inches) lawn,,, (the rain has stopped mowing for long periods this summer)
My 18HP Cub Cadet with a 60" deck would never even consider cutting that grass,,, Hmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,

The 855 is 24 hp engine with 19 hp pto. All I can say is with the water heater on it just will maintain 60 hz.

 

[CADplans]

The 855 is 24 hp engine with 19 hp pto. All I can say is with the water heater on it just will maintain 60 hz.

IIRC, an electric water heater element is either 3500 or 4500 watts,,,
most generators make that much with, what,, ~8HP,,, ??

Maybe your heater is wired to power both elements at the same time?
I know only one of my elements can come on at a time,,,

Possibly there is a defect in the upper thermostat?

 

[sixdogs]

Is the furnace electric or gas? If electric, is it heat pump or resistance heat? How many AC units? Is the water heater/stove/etc. electric or gas? If you have a large electric infrastructure, you can eat up 15kw pretty easily if you have a few things running, even if your average draw is only 1KW.

I personally prefer the 3-point mount, it's more rigid in the case of big startup loads, easy to back up (short trailers SUCK to back up with), etc.

I had a 25KW Katolight I picked up for $300-350 on a trailer... pretty nice trailer with an adjustable tongue, real clean 1800RPM Made in USA generator. Found I would rather put the 7kw generator on and not worry about running the tractor balls out the whole time, the exposed driveline, etc. despite not being able to use the stove or AC. Ended up selling it and made some decent cash. Before I would put out thousands for a new PTO generator, I would look at a used diesel or propane/nat gas generator set.

I have a propane furnace and water heater, sump, well, freezers, one basic newer A/C and the normal stuff. as noted, my 10k/12k surge seems to have enough power. I'd like to buy a used one at an auction but am concerned about THD and my electronics. The old ones seems to have a high number and even the new Winco 25K is 8% THD. I don't know what level is acceptable but I hear 5% or less THD is what you want.

So, because the 15K Winco has less than 5%THD and seems to be enough power, that's what I figured on getting. Please offer any advice.

 

[TractorGuy]

IIRC, an electric water heater element is either 3500 or 4500 watts,,,
most generators make that much with, what,, ~8HP,,, ??

Maybe your heater is wired to power both elements at the same time?
I know only one of my elements can come on at a time,,,

Possibly there is a defect in the upper thermostat?

Could be any combination of reasons. The least of which is the fact this is a cheap Chinese gen.

My water heater is an old 50 gal Rheem with two 4500 w elements running on a 30 amp breaker. I imagine they both run till it reaches temp.

I purchased and connected the day after the hurricane so all proper supplies were bought out. I had to rig it and back feed through the 30 amp dryer circuit.. Will get a proper switch mounted when parts are available. In the meantime I have to keep the main breaker manually turned off while connected and running.

Either way my 19 pto hp is undersize for this unit so power will be limited.

 

[newbury]

Could be any combination of reasons. The least of which is the fact this is a cheap Chinese gen.

My water heater is an old 50 gal Rheem with two 4500 w elements running on a 30 amp breaker. I imagine they both run till it reaches temp.

I purchased and connected the day after the hurricane so all proper supplies were bought out. I had to rig it and back feed through the 30 amp dryer circuit.. Will get a proper switch mounted when parts are available. In the meantime I have to keep the main breaker manually turned off while connected and running.

Either way my 19 pto hp is undersize for this unit so power will be limited.

Perfect excuse for another bigger tractor!

 

[TractorGuy]

I've had my 12KW for since 2012, but have only tested it a few times.


I've got it, know how to use it but don't believe I need to run it every few months like my other "fueled" generators.

Before I bought it my research seemed to show they were tops in quality.

Gad they've become expensive.

How loud is the gearbox on your winco?

This cheap Chinese unit sounds like a thrashing machine but hasn't changed level after 9 hours of intermittent operation. I am going to change oil in it today and see if it has any metal is in it.

 

[newbury]

How loud is the gearbox on your winco?

This cheap Chinese unit sounds like a thrashing machine but hasn't changed level after 9 hours of intermittent operation. I am going to change oil in it today and see if it has any metal is in it.

Not loud at all.

Any chinese equipment that has chinese oil in it should have the oil changed before using, even cans of oil. I've had and read of so many pieces of equipment that they ship with the cheapest poorest "oil" available.

 

[TractorGuy]

Not loud at all.

Any chinese equipment that has chinese oil in it should have the oil changed before using, even cans of oil. I've had and read of so many pieces of equipment that they ship with the cheapest poorest "oil" available.

LOL, this one came without oil in it. I filled it with Valvoline gear oil before starting, ran it 11 hours, and changed it. The manual said to change at 25 hours then every 300. I was worried it was thrashing itself to pieces but the oil had no signs of metal in it. I do think they may have filled and test run it before shipping. It had a few drops on the plug when I removed it and a few tenths on the hour meter. It is pushing some oil out of the vent but I measured what I drained out and it filled a quart container so it isn't loosing more than I could keep up with. Having to run my tractor at 3600 RPMs to maintain 60 hz. 3200 RPM is my normal PTO speed so I'm having to run wide open.

 

[sixdogs]

Not loud at all.

Any chinese equipment that has chinese oil in it should have the oil changed before using, even cans of oil. I've had and read of so many pieces of equipment that they ship with the cheapest poorest "oil" available.

Same with anything that has "grease" on it like smaller rolling cabinet type wheels. The grease looks like Crisco and is useless. I couldn't figure out why the wheels wouldn't work until I took it apart and saw the "grease". Who could think this is a good idea?

 

[Garandman]

Same with anything that has "grease" on it like smaller rolling cabinet type wheels. The grease looks like Crisco and is useless. I couldn't figure out why the wheels wouldn't work until I took it apart and saw the "grease". Who could think this is a good idea?

Most of their stuff is shipped with preservative, not grease.

 

[sixdogs]

Most of their stuff is shipped with preservative, not grease.

On an inner bearing not intended to be dissembled, you would think an end user would expect grease. :laughing:

 

[TractorGuy]

Perfect excuse for another bigger tractor!

That's exactly what my wife said this morning. God I love that woman!

 

[vsteel]

I have a propane furnace and water heater, sump, well, freezers, one basic newer A/C and the normal stuff. as noted, my 10k/12k surge seems to have enough power. I'd like to buy a used one at an auction but am concerned about THD and my electronics. The old ones seems to have a high number and even the new Winco 25K is 8% THD. I don't know what level is acceptable but I hear 5% or less THD is what you want.

So, because the 15K Winco has less than 5%THD and seems to be enough power, that's what I figured on getting. Please offer any advice.

Clean power is a huge deal, especially with todays cpus in things like furnaces, ovens and refrigerators. The old generators make me nervous because 30 years ago power quality wasn't such a big deal. Heating elements and electric motors can take some rough power and still survive, maybe not as long but still survive. People talk about voltage a lot but they forget THD (Total Harmonic Distortion). There flip side is today's electronics being globally sourced is voltage/frequency many times is secondary, modern power supplies are designed to handle 100-150hz and 50-50hz and when properly deigned will have a 10% safety margin on top of that.

Clean power is defined as less than 6% total harmonic distortion, above that the power quality isn't considered safe for electronics. Lower is always better with THD, your power can't be too clean or too perfect.

 

[pmsmechanic]

Until you can purchase "another bigger tractor" a switch installed that would cut out the top water heater element while on generator power would let your little tractor off the hook a bit. The only down side is that it would take longer to heat the water.