Will UAW Strike?

[Oaktree]

The big thing the union concept gets wrong is that seniority and competence are not often coordinated. In a RTW state, the better workers get paid more. In a union shop, the guys who have managed to avoid being fired the longest get paid more. I'm sure there are some senior guys who are also competent and hard-working. The most competent, hardest working people tend to leave union jobs or never take them in the first place. Why would you bust your hump so some lazy slob who started a year earlier than you can get paid more and get 1st crack at vacation days, shifts, etc? Again, not painting all union guys with that brush, just the average ones versus the average in a RTW situation.

The whole seniority thing may have made sense 100 years ago when most trades were learned on the job...kind of stood to reason that (up to a point) the more experience you had the more skilled you were. Doesn't really fly today, and as you noted younger generations aren't about to take all the crap shifts, etc. for years. I've always felt that a union environment tends to punish the ambitious.

Unions have already made Toyota #1.

The companies may welcome a strike to a point. They will be able to save money as it drags on and many of them now have a surplus at dealerships. (Though it really seems to vary).

There is a Toyota dealership just off I30, not far from here. They have few vehicles on the lot.

I wasn't aware that toyota was #1 in anything, but I have noticed quite a few new-looking tacomas on the road lateley (though the nearby dealership's lot seems to be full of 'most every other model). I'm attributing that to Ford & GM's limited production of their smaller trucks leaving no other choice if someone doesn't want full size.
I don't see any "surplus" at ANY dealership around here, regardless of make. The Chevy/GMC dealer's lot is almost empty to the point where you wonder if they're even open. Dodge/Ram/Jeep dealer seems to have quite a few full size RAMs, but not much else.
Not sure why Ford & GM don't up production on their small trucks...are they afraid they're cannibalizing full-size sales? IMHO better to keep it in the family than to give sales away to a competitor.

 

[5030]

Like I posted earlier on, the holding lots up at Ford Rouge assembly is loaded with new pickup trucks, but most of them are EV's and a few have combusted while sitting there too. Stellantis in North Toledo (Jeep Plant), their holding lots are also loaded. Not sure about GM as I have not been up to Flint Assembly in a while.

I have a feeling that the whole EV thing is gonna be a bust for the automakers anyway. Average Joe don't want an overpriced toaster. Not everyone on here is a Gale Hawkins....lol

I did read in Automotive Weekly that if the automakers capitulate to the Union Demands, the price of every new vehicle (EV, Plug in Hybrid or gas powered) will increase by $4,000.00 just to cover the contract and not even the legacy costs.

Not gonna happen, like I said, I'm smack dab right in the middle of autoworkers utopia.

 

[Snobdds]

The whole seniority thing may have made sense 100 years ago when most trades were learned on the job...kind of stood to reason that (up to a point) the more experience you had the more skilled you were. Doesn't really fly today, and as you noted younger generations aren't about to take all the crap shifts, etc. for years. I've always felt that a union environment tends to punish the ambitious.


I wasn't aware that toyota was #1 in anything, but I have noticed quite a few new-looking tacomas on the road lateley (though the nearby dealership's lot seems to be full of 'most every other model). I'm attributing that to Ford & GM's limited production of their smaller trucks leaving no other choice if someone doesn't want full size.
I don't see any "surplus" at ANY dealership around here, regardless of make. The Chevy/GMC dealer's lot is almost empty to the point where you wonder if they're even open. Dodge/Ram/Jeep dealer seems to have quite a few full size RAMs, but not much else.
Not sure why Ford & GM don't up production on their small trucks...are they afraid they're cannibalizing full-size sales? IMHO better to keep it in the family than to give sales away to a competitor.

Top 15 Automakers in the World | Car Sales Rank Worldwide

Global car sales ranked by manufacturer. Worldwide sales leaders. Data includes yearly vehicles sold by top automakers. Toyota. VW. GM. Honda. Ford.

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I didn't realize how bad ford was doing compared to it's rivals. They have made a bad bet on the actual EV demand out there. Damn.

The top 3 manufactures are non union producers. The change has happened.

 

[ruffdog]

The GM said the Teamsters and RR unions would not "cross the picket lines" so vehicles would sit where they were till after the strike was over.

Nope...I still don't see it happening. None of the transport companies want to be sitting on finished vehicles longer than they have to. If the vehicles sit, they may get damaged and the transport company will be held liable.

 

[NoTrespassing]

Top 15 Automakers in the World | Car Sales Rank Worldwide

Global car sales ranked by manufacturer. Worldwide sales leaders. Data includes yearly vehicles sold by top automakers. Toyota. VW. GM. Honda. Ford.

www.factorywarrantylist.com

I didn't realize how bad ford was doing compared to it's rivals. They have made a bad bet on the actual EV demand out there. Damn.

The top 3 manufactures are non union producers. The change has happened.

Comparing companies on number of sales only is misleading. Selling a $19k Kia is not the same as selling an $80k F150.

 

[ultrarunner]

When I worked in a Union shop there were two unions… Tool and Die Makers and Aerospace/Machinist (IAMBA)

One co worker was in both and paid dues to both… often wonder how that worked out for him come retirement?

The Tool and Die Makers had all learned through apprenticeships… mostly German speaking but not all… very talented group…

Failing eyesight with advanced age caused many retirements…

The shop owner was very generous… on Saturdays any worker could come in 4 hours for personal work… but you would be fired M-F doing personal work on company time…

I built a dump trailer…and others go-karts and even a special RV fuel tank…

It was quite a thing to have a fully equipped shop to use Saturdays 8-noon.

I made things for the Hospital even after I no longer worked there…

The owner a self made man worked 6 days a week and always laid out the following weeks schedule on Saturdays well into his 80’s

All of that now long gone including the Union Hall and similar area shops.

I never made the number of years in for vesting… but the Union received 8k employer paid on my behalf at $1 for every hour worked.

I never experienced a strike… there was one not long before I was hired… the guys wanted to work and the Union wanted picket signs and marching… there was one sign and guys sitting around a folding table outside.

 

[Joel/ak]

Had breakfast with my brother, who is UAW. He was telling me about what they want from the big 3. He actually voted against a strike.

Big negative for him, according to him, was a $25/ hour raise. He said most people don't even make 25/hour. He did try and defend it by saying we haven't had a raise just a COLA raise. I told him, welcome to the real world

He was also told that they will strike no matter what

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

I've been union (teamsters), worked side by side with unions (ibew) and have been non union for years.

Each company and situation is different. I enjoy the ibew guys and the seems pretty happy. Teamsters sucked but it was because if it weren't for them UPS would work people into the dirt.

I think the big difference is representing skilled labor vs general labor

Electricians are not made over night, button pushers on the auto factory floor are.

 

[Snobdds]

Comparing companies on number of sales only is misleading. Selling a $19k Kia is not the same as selling an $80k F150.

A bit of an exaggeration on spread, but really bad understanding of volume.

Volume creates economies of scale. Where you can lower unit costs and increase profit margin through operation efficiencies. The text book goal of any manufacturer.

 

[bigtiller]

Had breakfast with my brother, who is UAW. He was telling me about what they want from the big 3. He actually voted against a strike.

Big negative for him, according to him, was a $25/ hour raise. He said most people don't even make 25/hour. He did try and defend it by saying we haven't had a raise just a COLA raise. I told him, welcome to the real world

He was also told that they will strike no matter what

COLA raises are figured from and then added to the base pay.

Sometimes base pay is not updated with a new contract, but when base pay is negotiated, it is usually increased to match the current hourly rate.

Could that be part of his $25/ hr. raise?

 

[Joel/ak]

Didn't ask him that. 25 an hour pay raise.....hope they are on strike for a long time.

I don't have a problem with folks pushing for higher wages and some other issues but really??

Almost $70/hour to just watch movies plus with an extra 8 hours overtime with a 32 hour work week.....sorry, no sympathy from me

 

[5030]

Like I said, gonna be a long, cold winter for UAW members. That Fain clown is an idiot.

 

[Joel/ak]

Unfortunately the big 3 will cave. I say maybe a 6 week strike.

 

[ruffdog]

Had breakfast with my brother, who is UAW. He was telling me about what they want from the big 3. He actually voted against a strike.

Big negative for him, according to him, was a $25/ hour raise. He said most people don't even make 25/hour. He did try and defend it by saying we haven't had a raise just a COLA raise. I told him, welcome to the real world

He was also told that they will strike no matter what

COLA raises are figured from and then added to the base pay.

Sometimes base pay is not updated with a new contract, but when base pay is negotiated, it is usually increased to match the current hourly rate.

Could that be part of his $25/ hr. raise?

UAW has not had COLA since 2009 when that was given up. I'm sure the $25 figure is adding in any increase with COLA.

2023 Resolution: Reclaim the Cost Of Living Allowance (COLA) Wage Adjustment - Unite All Workers for Democracy

 

[big bubba]

regardless if strike or not, & all the issues involved, reading the replies, i have a lot of respect for those forum members who worked in skilled & professional trades during their working careers, union or not. hats off to you on this weekend & best regards

 

[5030]

Unfortunately the big 3 will cave. I say maybe a 6 week strike.

No, they won't. Just had a conversation with my BIL and he said Fords will NOT capitulate.

They cannot afford it.

Not commenting again except to say, I'll visit this in 90 days.

 

[airbiscuit]

I remember in the 70s or 80s, auto assemblers weren't happy that women were being hired in the plants. Three women were (physically) sexually assaulted at a Dodge Plant. Dodge fired the men ..... wait for it ...

The UAW fought to have them reinstated.

 

[bigtiller]

UAW has not had COLA since 2009 when that was given up. I'm sure the $25 figure is adding in any increase with COLA.

2023 Resolution: Reclaim the Cost Of Living Allowance (COLA) Wage Adjustment - Unite All Workers for Democracy

That probably explains the $25 comment from Joel/ak's brother. The base pay hasn't been up dated since the 2009 contract was signed ~18 years ago.

 

[Snobdds]

Ford and GM are hemorrhaging money right now due to the EV situation.

The UAW could not have picked a worst time to strike. But this is a political move. There is a new union president and he needs to set his trajectory. Naked ambition.

You can't get blood out of a turnip and companies can't stay competitive with uncompetitive union contracts.

 

[Joel/ak]

My brother calls the new president of the UAW an idiot. Asking for way too much.