When is it worth the drive?

tedmed0302 · Nov 13, 2004

Hi. I just went through this with my dealer and he informed me that all Kioti dealers are required to provide service to all Kioti Tractors. HOWEVER, each dealer can refuse service to a customer for any number of reasons---didnt like my attitude, bad temper, etc. Its his word against yours. He was basically telling me if I buy from somone else, I better take it to them for service. I was looking at shipping the same TLB from TX to MA for about a 1000$ savings in the end. To me it was not worth the service hassles (since I financed about 1/2 the total anyway---my payment didnt change much), so I went with the local guy. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Bob_Skurka · Nov 13, 2004

HOWEVER, each dealer can refuse service to a customer for any number of reasons---didnt like my attitude, bad temper, etc. Its his word against yours. He was basically telling me if I buy from somone else, I better take it to them for service. 

So let me understand this is simple English that even I can understand. Your local dealer said something to the effect of: Buy from me at the inflated price I set, or I will screw you in the end if you buy from someone cheaper And instead of working with him to get him to lower his price, you caved in and bought from him anyway? Personally he is the last dealer on the planet I would buy from. That is exactly the tactic that I got fed up with years ago when I was buying cars & trucks for our company. Competition is good, it will drive the jerk dealers like that out of business, or it will force them to treat customers with the respect they deserve. And now you are stuck paying an extra $1000 up front but the finance charge(?) for the next few years. Makes me wonder what he is going to ding you for if you ever do need service. OUCH . . . JMHO.

Kipper · Nov 13, 2004

Got my local dealer's DK quotes:

DK35 $19,333
DK40 $20,768
Dk45 $21,793

On each of the quotes there is the tractor price then a "Freight/PDI/Delivery" chanrge at about $1,000 and then tax on top.

Is he charging me a destination fee like they do with cars?

Bob_Skurka · Nov 13, 2004

Kipper, the Cub Cadet offered you essentially the same tractor as the DK45 for nearly $2000 less. Is orange paint worth $2000 when the tractor under the paint is the same? And if he offered you that price on the phone without even a haggle, what will he come down to when you have a checkbook in front of him?

Also, I think I'd be confronting the local Kioti dealer with the pricing from Cub Cadet. I'm sure the Kioti dealer will know that the Cub is simply a Kioti with yellow & white paint and couple detail changes. And I think I'd hit him with the even lower price from "another dealer" that you are talking to (but don't tell him which one). And I'd go to the Cub dealer and hit him with the distant price quote on the Kioti and work with him until he drops the price on the Cub/Kioti varient.

shoppintractors · Nov 13, 2004

Kipper,

Kioti had a price increase effective October 1st.

You may find dealers with existing inventory, offering a better price..... because they have inventory purchased prior to Oct 1st.

Don

cag · Nov 13, 2004

Tedmed0302 I agree with you 1000 buck's simply isn't worth it. And I'm sure someone out there will disagree and that's
fine. In my view when you make a long term investment like a tractor.... 1000 buck's simply isn't worth it ... CAG

Kipper · Nov 14, 2004

Sorry, the Cub price was missleading. I forgot to add tax.

8454 $21,145
DK45 $21,793

Bob_Skurka · Nov 14, 2004

Kipper, you are still $650 better off and end up with the same machine locally. Now I still believe that there is room for negotiating with both dealers. So I would be using the distant dealer's delivered price as the benchmark and work to drive down the prices on both the Cub and the local DK45. Let both of these guys know that you'd rather buy local, and that you have a choice since the machines are clones of each other. But let them know you need price and you want someone to hold your hand if your new toy breaks. Tell them you will come back to them for implements (do not lie) from time to time and that you will want similar pricing on those. Tell them you will tell your friends about the deal. Etc. It just seems to me the local guy needs a REALITY CHECK in pricing. If it was me, I'd probably be driving the Cub version of the Kioti home based on what you've said so far. Both are the same units. You said just talking to the Cub dealer that he is a guy you think you'd like working with. The Cub dealer shot you the better price without even a gentle smack over the head with a wiffle ball bat. The local Kioti guy thinks he has something unique that is worth overpaying for. Hmmmmmm.....

Kipper · Nov 14, 2004

Thanks Bob, and I agree. I drove out and looked at the 8454 yesterday. The dealer was closer than I thought! Man, is it a monster compared to my last tractor!! (1981 Ford 1310 w/FEL)

Felt good to sit in and everything was within comfortable reach. I didn't take it for a spin. I had to be somewhere and I don't know if I would have gotten off the machine had I started playing!!

I know he has room for negotiating, too. I asked what the payment would be and he said something along the lines of: When we get a price nailed down I'll call and find out exactly.

I don't think he's too good with the math. Though, he struck me as a honest good 'ol boy. He did take the time to show me the tractor and answer my question. Never seeming in a hurry or pushy trying to sell me on it.

The Kioti dealer doesn't have anything larger than a CK30 on the lot so I don't know it is worth the hour drive out there. Unless I decide on saving money and going with the smaller tractor. I doubt you'd recommend that /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

What do back blades cost? I was thinking about asking for free 50 hr check up and a back blade. Would it be too much to ask to have one thrown in at that price. He's already told me he'd do all deliveries and pick ups during the warranty period.

Thanks again for your advice!

Bob_Skurka · Nov 14, 2004

Back blade can be had for about $150 on the low end up to about $750 & more. Depends on the size and features. I like the Midwest blades with tilt, swivel & offset, I have a 60" version that was in mid $300's. You'd likely be looking for 84" and I'd guess that would run over $500 for that size with those features from Midwest.

Woods & LandPride and a few other quality makers have heavier blades. Howse makes some lightweight ones. Really depends on what you are doing as to how good you need.

My Midwest blade is more than I need but I'm really glad I got the quality of Midwest. It is the only brand I found that allowed for all the adjustments to be made without tools. Everything is simply pinned in place and allow for changes even with gloves on.

As for asking for the blade to be tossed in with the price, it is always worth asking!!! Not sure you'll end up with the top of the line, but that may not be an issue if you don't need it.

By the way, no matter which tractor you buy, I think it is good form to go to the dealers you didn't buy from and chat with them. Tell them you are sorry you couldn't do business with them but the other guy did "x", "y" and "z" for me. But also say that IN THE FUTURE you will may be getting a call from me. You never want to burn the bridges . . . unless the dealer is a total jerk, then I wouldn't even bother going back to talk with him because I wouldn't go back to him in the future anyway.

Kipper · Nov 15, 2004

I just realized there is a Case dealer here too. I have only ever seen construction equipment on the lot. Should I explore them too?

This tractor shopping is about as clear as mud!

Noodlearm · Nov 15, 2004

The Case tractors are identical to the new Hoolands with the exception of color and no Super Steer. When I shopped, I really like the New Holland tractors, nice sloped hoods and good loaders, they are generally lighter than the Kioti's for a same HP machine. Only reason I chose kioti was the huge difference in quotes I received.

JayC · Nov 16, 2004

This tractor shopping is about as clear as mud! 

But when it is all said and done you'll be playing in that mud! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

tedmed0302 · Nov 16, 2004

Hello All. I have not logged in a few days and this topic has seen a few turns! First of all, ignore 3/4 of what Bob says. I am going to say what I know everyone is thinking---Way too much opinion/garbage inserted. We are all adults here capable of making a decision. Take a look at what you can afford to buy, vs. what you "like/need" in a tractor. Narrow the search down to say 2 comparable machines and pick the one in the end that seems like the best dealership to buy from that is giving you the most tractor for your buck. Ask lots of questions---some will talk others wont. Some care, some dont. If you get a bad feeling, walk away and go somewhere else. Life is too short. Out here the Kioti's are far and away the best deal going---they may not be where you are. Dont spend months searching for "the perfect deal." The time you waste doing that, is the time you could be completing your projects or earning money using a machine! No matter what you do, someone is going to say they got a better deal from someone else... Ignore them and "GET GOING!"

virgil · Nov 17, 2004

sounds like good advise to me.. virgil

Kipper · Nov 17, 2004

Thanks. That's about how I'm feeling right now. But the more I look the more options there are.

I am going to try and set something up to see the Kioti's this weekend. But again, the local guy doesn't have DK's????

Any advice on Farmtrack?

Kipper · Nov 17, 2004

The mud is getting deeper.

I had emailed a Kioti dealer in WI to check on his prices and he advised me, for HP range I was looking at, to go with Farmtrac. Which he is also a dealer of. So I went to their website and found out there is a Farmtrac dealer 10 miles away from the "local" Kioti dealer.

Time to get on the phone again /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

shoppintractors · Nov 17, 2004

But again, the local guy doesn't have DK's????


You've seen and sat on the Cub Cadet versions. If the Kioti dealer has to order one, you would know it's fresh out of the crate.

Personally, I would prefer buying Kioti over Cub. In my mind, more of a company direct purchase.

I see Kioti has extended their '0% for 3 years' financing -or- rebates in lieu of financing of $800 on DK35, 40, 45 and $400 on CK models through the end of December, 2004. www.kioti.com

Either way, the Kioti/Cub tractors will both....move dirt, mud /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif and plow snow in identical ways.

Don

Golfgar4 · Nov 17, 2004

Where is this Wisconsin Kioti dealer located that you contacted? I knew of one in the Pewaukee area, but he quit handling Kioti's. At least his web site and his ads don't mention Kioti's any more. And the last time I checked through the locator, the only dealer listed was in Oostburg. Is that the one?

tedmed0302 · Nov 17, 2004

Hello. The other thing I noticed is that we are in a Kioti discussion group, but there are lots of people pushing/advising other brands---but yet they dont own or have never owned a Kioti... Why do that to a newcomer? Ive been lurking in the shadows of TBN for over a year and have noticed alot of this. I just bought one because unlike any of the other dealers up here, they were the only one that would let me drive any of their tractors! He had Massy and Kioti. Now as for the at home test with delivery "before you buy"---must be nice! Im going out on a limb here, but Id say its safe to say nobody does that up here. They dont have time. People are buying the machines faster than they can get them in---especially the Kioti's. Its not fun to shop, because it is alot of money for most of us, but once you get the machine, (in my recent experience it was Kioti) you will feel relieved! Plus, you can get all those projects completed you promised your wife! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif