What would cause this? Can it be fixed?

[jinman]

That still doesn't necessarily explain the drop.

Will the bent piece have to be replaced or will they try to repair it?

I have no idea what happened, but I look at your adapter and it seems to me that maybe one curl cylinder was working and pulled/twisted the adapter. I may have missed it, but your grapple didn't come off one side of the adapter, did it? If everything was in place, it just seems like only one side was in stress and that twisted the whole assembly.

I also know that if one cylinder lets go internally, there is no pressure to the other side because they are in parallel. Something strange is going on here that just looks very abnormal. The adapter sure shows signs of an uneven load despite the fact that you said that stump was centered in the grapple. Bafflin' stuff....

 

[texasjohn]

You mentioned the stump was small and out of the ground when the problem occured. Were you attempting to pull it out of the ground perhaps with chains because maybe a root was still in the ground?.

If the stump was free swinging, how much, approximately, does it weigh...

maybe a photo of the stump and grapel where it attached to QA?

I'm mystified... I've lifted the rear wheels (liquid loaded) of my tractor off the ground with the FEL when it was chained down to something in the ground. Of course, one wheel only comes off and the other is VERY light. I was operating slowly and stopped immediately observing the FEL begin to twist. With sufficient rear weight, I've lifted 2800 lbs using my FEL (no bucket). So, my opinion is that when properly functioning the FEL can take a lot of load without the results you had. Further, when the load is too heavy, the relief valve gives and things just don't move. Something unusual and catastrophic happened in your case.

The idea of perhaps one curl cylinder working and the other not, thus causing twist of QA and perhaps subsequent detach of the grapple is in the realm of possibility... if the grappel was properly attached to the FEL, i'd expect some serious scars on the attachment points perhaps proving that it was properly attached...Is the grappel twisted as well where it attaches to the QA?

Hmm.. I just reread your first post...you say you detached the grappel. Were both sides still physically attached to the QA? Did you have to release both handles/pins to disconnect the grappel? Or, Was one side/pin loose and the other still attached, physically to the QA? I understand you disconnected the grappel hydraulic lines but was the grappel physically lose from the QA or was it still partially or completely physically connected?


Net... it's a mystery.... you can only provide the symptoms and the dealer's mechanic will have to test all components to determine what failed and needs replacing.

Regarding repair/replace of the bent segment... I'd think it would be easier to simply replace it... I don't know if the shop would have the equipment available to straighten it out and assure its proper alignment. Guess it depends on what equipment they have.

 

[wushaw]

That QA can be fixed pretty easy if they want to fix it....cut out bent parts and weld in new ones...
It looks like it bent when things came crashing down.
The hydraulics should not just let it fall unless the relief valve is just gone or air somehow entered the system and then let go or your loader/third function valve is bad.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

I was not pulling the stump out of the ground. I can't estimate it's weight, but I had lifted it and moved it around to get in a position to transport it so I know it wasn't beyond the capacity of the loader. That didn't seem to be the problem.

As far as the quick attach, when I got down, one side was loose at that point. I disattached the other side, turned off the tractor, and then let the pressure off of the hydraulics so that I could undo the hoses from the grapple.

The unknown is when then bending/twisting occured. Did it happen at ground level as some have suggested, or did the quick attach come loose prior to that and bend/twist it before it ever went down. I can't say that for certain. The grapple appears no worse for the wear.

The only thing I would offer as a point is that I had been using the grapple for quite some time without any trouble. I had already moved stumps of similar size around before this happened. I had also done some bushhogging with the grapple mounted on the front. My ground is not all that smooth so it bumps along as you would expect a loader/bucket in transport to do.

If I had just changed out implements, climbed on the tractor, grabbed on to the stump and then this happened, then I would agree that not having it latched correctly would be the most obvious cause. As I stated previously, I am not above making a mistake so this isn't an ego thing. It just doesn't seem logical to me that you could use the grapple for quite a while with everything working just fine, and then all the sudden the faulty mounting demonstrate itself. I guess anything is possible, but that just doesn't seem logical to me.

As far as the Third Function issue, I have determined that the switch is broken. The Third Function itself still operates fine when you manually trip the switching mechanism. It must have a broken part in the plastic button mechanism. I was able to reconnect the hoses to the grapple and open the arms so that I could move the grapple to a better location.

In any event, it is just frustrating when you are tring to be careful and enjoy a brand new machine. I realize things happen though. I guess the real question is how much will it cost me to get it up and running again. I hope the answer to that is nothing because they cover it under warranty.

 

[texbaylea]

I was not pulling the stump out of the ground. I can't estimate it's weight, but I had lifted it and moved it around to get in a position to transport it so I know it wasn't beyond the capacity of the loader. That didn't seem to be the problem.

As far as the quick attach, when I got down, one side was loose at that point. I disattached the other side, turned off the tractor, and then let the pressure off of the hydraulics so that I could undo the hoses from the grapple.

The unknown is when then bending/twisting occured. Did it happen at ground level as some have suggested, or did the quick attach come loose prior to that and bend/twist it before it ever went down. I can't say that for certain. The grapple appears no worse for the wear.

The only thing I would offer as a point is that I had been using the grapple for quite some time without any trouble. I had already moved stumps of similar size around before this happened. I had also done some bushhogging with the grapple mounted on the front. My ground is not all that smooth so it bumps along as you would expect a loader/bucket in transport to do.

If I had just changed out implements, climbed on the tractor, grabbed on to the stump and then this happened, then I would agree that not having it latched correctly would be the most obvious cause. As I stated previously, I am not above making a mistake so this isn't an ego thing. It just doesn't seem logical to me that you could use the grapple for quite a while with everything working just fine, and then all the sudden the faulty mounting demonstrate itself. I guess anything is possible, but that just doesn't seem logical to me.

As far as the Third Function issue, I have determined that the switch is broken. The Third Function itself still operates fine when you manually trip the switching mechanism. It must have a broken part in the plastic button mechanism. I was able to reconnect the hoses to the grapple and open the arms so that I could move the grapple to a better location.

In any event, it is just frustrating when you are tring to be careful and enjoy a brand new machine. I realize things happen though. I guess the real question is how much will it cost me to get it up and running again. I hope the answer to that is nothing because they cover it under warranty.

When I first started using my Kubota I found it easy to cause the QA to release the attachment when backing up and the attachment would drag on the ground or other object. The pins would just cam out of the sockets. I had both the bucket and the tree shear release. In each case they came loose on one side or the other. Fortunately I noticed before lifting above ground level. This was a little more than two years ago and there were discussions here on TBN about the problem. Other members had the same problem. Kubota put out a fix kit for some models of QAs. I simply put a stack of washers under the springs so they could only move a fraction of an inch after they were cammed over. No more problem.

Could something like this have happened to cause the QA pin to cam out on one side?

Vernon

 

[Steve_Miller]

Here's my theory based on what I've read so far. I'm making a few assumptions so correct me if I've guessed wrong. There was mention of an 'O' ring changed, I'm assuming this was in one of the lift cylinders, if it was it may have failed again causing the loader to drop very suddenly, you probably still had your hand on the joystick trying to raise the load when the 'o'ring blew causing the fel to drop and hit the uneven ground with such force (grapple loaded with stump) as to knock the QA loose from the fel and twist it. I'm I anywhere near? If not it was my two cents worth. If it was, your fel may still lift with no load on it, but be quite weak as one cylinder is bypassing pretty bad.

Steve

 

[Leejohn]

With the weight it took to bend it like that and not pull the top of the hookup to the right more then it did I still think the right cyl. was hooked. If you look real close at the picture the top of left hookup is only pulled to the right just alittle and that might be why the grabber is ok.
Lee

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Here's my theory based on what I've read so far. I'm making a few assumptions so correct me if I've guessed wrong. There was mention of an 'O' ring changed, I'm assuming this was in one of the lift cylinders, if it was it may have failed again causing the loader to drop very suddenly, you probably still had your hand on the joystick trying to raise the load when the 'o'ring blew causing the fel to drop and hit the uneven ground with such force (grapple loaded with stump) as to knock the QA loose from the fel and twist it. I'm I anywhere near? If not it was my two cents worth. If it was, your fel may still lift with no load on it, but be quite weak as one cylinder is bypassing pretty bad.

Steve

Steve,

The O-ring previously referred to was in the spool vavle for the third function. The cylinders have had no issues that I am aware of. As I stated prior, I don't believe a loss of hydraulic fluid was involved this time. Other than a very slight drip where one of the hoses screws into the third function valve, I couldn't find any evidence of fluid loss this time.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

With the weight it took to bend it like that and not pull the top of the hookup to the right more then it did I still think the right cyl. was hooked. If you look real close at the picture the top of left hookup is only pulled to the right just alittle and that might be why the grabber is ok.
Lee

Keep in mind that if you are standing in front of the machine looking at it, the cylinder on the right is about two inches from fully retracted when the other one is fully retracted. Because of the twist in the crossbar, it will not allow both cylinders to fully retract. I just realized that this is not reflected in the pictures I posted. I don't think it matters, but for whatever it's worth.

 

[Double Orange]

Tenn.FarmBoy, What ever the fault/problem is I/we sincerly hope for a positive/acceptable response from your dealer tomorrow. All 2,435,577 members and onlookers hear on TBN are monitoring his response!
Good Luck
Frank

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Tenn.FarmBoy, What ever the fault/problem is I/we sincerly hope for a positive/acceptable response from your dealer tomorrow. All 2,435,577 members and onlookers hear on TBN are monitoring his response!
Good Luck


Frank, now how did you know I will be talking to my dealer tomorrow?

You really know how to put the pressure on--2,435,577!!!!!

Of course, that may have just been your incredibly diplomatic way of telling me to quit whining!!!

Oh well, life goes on. What makes me nervous is not being able to identify what went wrong. When you back your truck into the tree, you instantly know, "I better remember that tree the next time. I need to pay more attention." This machine should be a tool that can be used to work--within reason and its capacities of course. It will be a tedious relationship if things continue the way they have been the first few days .

 

[zzvyb6]

I'm wondering if the circuit to one of the curl cyliders is backwards. What do they do if you cycle them now? Does one retract while the other pushes out?

Hope its not that way. Otherwise, I'd say the attach failed on one side. Look at the scrape marks: something slipped.

Anyways, the way to untwist the QA frame is to deliberately reverse the curl cylinders and cycle the valve until they bend the torsion tube back into alignment.

 

[FULLPULL]

Looking at the pic it looks like the right cylinder looking at the front of the tractor is not all of the way retracted. Did you try to fully extend the cylinders to the full dump position . Then retract them all of the way in and see what you have then. Thats if the cylinder isnt bent.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Looking at the pic it looks like the right cylinder looking at the front of the tractor is not all of the way retracted. Did you try to fully extend the cylinders to the full dump position . Then retract them all of the way in and see what you have then. Thats if the cylinder isnt bent.

I did. It is impossible to fully extend them to the full dump position, and it is also impossible to retract them all of the way. The one on the left (looking at the front of the machine) will retract all of the way, but the other one stops with about 2 inches or so of cylinder arm showing. The twist in the cross bar is putting it in a bind and keeping it from fully retracting or extending IMHO.

 

[Double Orange]

Tenn Farm Boy, Don't read too much into my post. It was meant only for SUPPORT for YOU!! I want the dealer to step up to the plate and do right for You the CUSTOMER! We are behind you 100%!
Frank

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Hey, Frank. I am just harassing you. I took your comments in the spirit they were given. As the old saying is, No need to cry over spilled milk. Thanks for the support.

Funny enough, my dealer is one that doesn't seem to know anything about TBN.

 

[DavesTractor]

A possible scenario is that the nut came off the rod inside one of the curl cylinders, or the rod fractured where it necks down to capture the piston. I've seen that happen before, but it is rare indeed. The more likely cause is a QA handle not all the way engaged and the sudden drop was actually the grapple partially falling? Doesn't quite make sense though....

 

[Steve_Miller]

Steve,

The O-ring previously referred to was in the spool vavle for the third function. The cylinders have had no issues that I am aware of. As I stated prior, I don't believe a loss of hydraulic fluid was involved this time. Other than a very slight drip where one of the hoses screws into the third function valve, I couldn't find any evidence of fluid loss this time.

Farmboy,
Does the FEL still work properly? An 'o'ring may still have blew out in a lift cylinder but there would be no oil showing or lost as it's bypassing internally. Just a thought, hope your back up and running soon though.

Steve

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Well, they came and hauled it away this afternoon. Based on my conversation with the service manager, it appears that all will be covered under warranty. My greatest concern is finding out WHY it happened so that we can address the cause and and avoid an encore performance. Unfortunately, we may never know the answer to that.

 

[teg]

"...my dealer is one that doesn't seem to know anything about TBN..."

[size=-2]hush, that is what they *all* say... wait, here comes another one.[/size]

[size=+1]Good Luck with your great dealer Let us know how it turns out![/size]