What would cause this? Can it be fixed?

[EastTnFarmboy]

This afternoon, I was working with the grapple attached to my FEL. I was simply lifting a small stump that was loose on top of the ground (it had been pushed out by a dozer a year ago). For whatever reason--and it wasn't a blown hose or hydraulic failure--the entire FEL suddenly dropped. (I wasn't maxing out because it was slightly above hood level and the grapple was already clamped on the stump.) I should also mention that I had already moved a few stumps prior to the problem.

When I got down to check things out, I saw that the part pictured was bent. Obviously, it was putting things in a bind, so I disconnected the grapple. When I tried the loader, it would lift up and down fine, but it wouldn't roll completely because of the bent piece. Additionally, I noticed that the third function button wasn't lit up and it wouldn't light up even after pushing it as you are supposed to. I reconnected the hydraulics from the grapple to see if that had anything to do with it, but it didn't matter. It is no longer working.

Since this tractor has all of 14 hours on it and I have had it all of 7 days, this seems very strange to me. What would cause this? Can the part pictured be repaired or will it have to be replaced? Obviously, the malfunction in the joy stick will have to be dealt with also.

Any ideas? Thanks!

 

[kevinj]

It looks like the bucket was not latched properly allowing one side to pop off and bend the QA mount.

 

[texasjohn]

I looked at the photos carefully and came to the same conclusion that kevinj did..... Quick Attach improperly latched.

It is possible to force the latching handle down against the spring, even tho it is not properly inserted into the mating slot. I have a habit of hooking onto an implement, raising it slightly, then "flipping" the FEL so that the implement settles well into the upper cradle of the QA, THEN getting down and closing the handle for the pins to mate into the slots and visually making sure that they are physically thru the slots.

I'd take it back to your dealer and see what he can to to help, however, he may want some more $$ since it appears to be a case of "operator error."

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

I'd take it back to your dealer and see what he can to to help, however, he may want some more $$ since it appears to be a case of "operator error."[/QUOTE]

I am certainly not above making an operating mistake. With that said, the part of my initial post that no one has mentioned is the sudden drop of the ENTIRE FEL. In my opinion, it was that sudden drop---and I mean like a rock---coupled with the stump that was in the grapple, that caused the twisting that you see. Since the Third Function button doesn't light up all of the sudden, it makes me wonder if there was some sort of an electronic failure in the joystick that caused the sudden drop and loss of function in the FEL.

I had to turn the tractor off to relieve the pressure in the lines to disconnect the grapple after the sudden drop. When I restarted the tractor, the FEL would raise up and down fine and roll somewhat, but not like it should, obviously. However, the button that turns the Third Function on and off would not light up. I reconnected the hydraulics on the grapple just to see if that had any bearing. It didn't matter. That is why I am so confused.

 

[texasjohn]

Yep, there may be a lot more to the story than one can read from just looking at photos... It is outside my area of competency to exactly analyze the symptoms you relate.... but I think we can agree that something isn't right and you need repairs and that your dealer is the right person to check into it... I think that the dealer will make it right and you will soon get back to using your tractor and enjoying it.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Thanks, Texasjohn. This is the first brand new tractor I have purchased so I haven't had experience with dealers, warranties, etc. What are the chances that they will cover the parts and repairs?

 

[texasjohn]

In my opinion, if the problem occured because of ANYTHING other than an improper attachment, (ie, a part malfunctioned) then the probability that DEALER will cover the repairs, IMHO, is close to 100%. If it was because of improper connection, I would expect NO repairs needed other than fixing/replacing twisted metal. Shooting from the hip, I'd think that the dealer would want to make sure that he maintains a happy customer and thus will either cover the cost fully or ask you to share maybe the parts cost and he does the labor if he determines that it was caused by improper attachment.

Would agree with you that I see NO reason for sudden drop of entire FEL... It's never happened to me unless I jam the joy stick forward. And, then it is not an immediate drop (but might seem like it to a newbie) but a very fast descent slowed only by escaping hydraulic fluid into the holding tank thru the hoses, etc.

I'd approach your dealer with the same info and tone you have provided here.... a message of you were operating carefully, surprised by sudden failure, observation of torqued FEL and confusion as to how it happened. Point is, be reasonable, not demanding nor insulting and you are likely to get much more satisfaction. Kubota is well known for its quality and good warranty service when needed although there have been few warranty cases reported on TBN because IMHO, of the reliability of the tractors.

 

[Double Orange]

Tennfarmboy, Last Friday, the day they/dealer delivered it you had a hyd. problem. Add that problem into this equation and see if anyone here more knowledable than myself can put 2 and 2 together.
Add a new post here and re-explain what happened and what the serviceman said.
Frank

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

I agree regarding the way to approach the dealer. Thanks for the good advice. I guess I am a bit cynical, just because I know they have the power to say "This is operator error. Deal with it." I guess I hope they take my word for it.

Regarding the sudden drop, it was not just the normal descent of the of loader. Even by the manufacturers specifications, that takes nearly three seconds to come from the uppermost position to the ground without a load--perhaps a bit faster with one. This was much faster. (Sort of like they way your hanging deer falls when the rope breaks. )

I guess my hope for warranty repair comes from the fact that the third function portion of the joystick is not working anymore. Maybe that is enough to validate that there was some sort of malfunction.

Are tractor dealers like car dealers in that they are paid by the manufacturer for warranty repairs--parts and labor? In other words, do they have a financial motive not to cover it under warranty?

Thanks!

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Tennfarmboy, Last Friday, the day they/dealer delivered it you had a hyd. problem. Add that problem into this equation and see if anyone here more knowledable than myself can put 2 and 2 together.
Add a new post here and re-explain what happened and what the serviceman said.
Frank

Frank, you have a good memory!! However, I did not add that information because I don't think the two things are related. The culprit in that event was a defective o-ring in the Third Function Valve. I did get underneath and look all around that area to see if anything looked suspicious. There was a slight bit of hydraulic fluid, but that could have been from a relief valve or a loose fitting. It didn't appear to me that it was excessive. Certainly not like it was the other day. It dropped 2.5 gallons in a few seconds.

The good news is the grapple was no worse for the wear. It didn't affect it at all. The bad news is I can't use the loader for squat until I get the thing fixed. I just hope it didn't twist anything other than the pictures reveal.

 

[SnowRidge]

I did get underneath and look all around that area to see if anything looked suspicious. There was a slight bit of hydraulic fluid, but that could have been from a relief valve or a loose fitting.

Hydraulic reflief valves don't vent externally. The very high pressure in hydraulic lines usually makes loose fittings immediately apparent. Unless you are speaking of the dribble from a quick disconnect, there should be no hydraulic fluid on the outside of your tractor.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Snowridge, you are correct regarding the relief...I should have remebered that. It looks like one of the hoses that is screwed into the spool valve had just a slight drip. I suspect it isn't as tight as it needs to be, but I didn't touch it at this point. In any case, I don't believe that is the culprit here.

 

[Leejohn]

It could be a bad piston in the hyd. cyl. It looks like all the weight was put on one cyl. all at once, or control valve. If it is in the control valve that would be the reason the loader dropped. Let us know what it was. I have the 485 loader. Sure hope it well be under warranty for you.

Lee

 

[texbaylea]

Looking at the pictures and based on my experience with a Kubota QA I believe the right side of the QA from the operators view was not properly latched. Might not have been noticed ( I didn't the first few times) until it was loaded when it popped out. This would have caused the twist but I can't figure how it would have caused the hydraulic failure.

I have the most problem latching up my Kubota bucket since the angle of the lip at the top of the bucket does not match that of the QA hook. The bucket usually ends up hanging away at the bottom. Latching then is ineffective. Coincidently I have the most problem on the right side. I always curl the bucket vigorously until the plates of the QA lie tight against the bucket then latch. I also put washers under the springs to get a tighter latch.

I also noticed that from your photos the the cross tube of the QA seems to be smaller diameter than the one on my L3130. Weaker? I don't know.

I have thought about running a bead of weld metal under the outer edge of the bucket lip to force the bucket to hang tighter to the QA.

Vernon

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Is it possible that a sudden drop, with a load, could cause the QA to pop out and then twist, either on the way down or when it hits uneven ground? It all happened so fast, it is hard to say exactly.

As for the load exposing the improperly latched QA, I had already moved a stump or two and some brush with no problems.

 

[Rara Avis]

Is it possible that a sudden drop, with a load, could cause the QA to pop out and then twist, either on the way down or when it hits uneven ground? It all happened so fast, it is hard to say exactly.

As for the load exposing the improperly latched QA, I had already moved a stump or two and some brush with no problems.

Some questions to peruse...

What is the current hydraulic fluid level in your unit? LOW or Normal?

Were there any unusual sounds preceding the event or during the drop?

Did the service guy just replace the o-ring or did he do a complete hydraulic test when he did his repair?

After you dropped all that fluid...did you completely cycle your hydraulics to bleed any air that might have gotten into your system?

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

Some questions to peruse...

What is the current hydraulic fluid level in your unit? LOW or Normal?
Were there any unusual sounds preceding the event or during the drop?
Did the service guy just replace the o-ring or did he do a complete hydraulic test when he did his repair?

After you dropped all that fluid...did you completely cycle your hydraulics to bleed any air that might have gotten into your system?

1. It is normal.

2. I didn't notice any other than the thud at the end of the drop.

3. He just replaced the o-ring and checked and filled the fluid.

4. I'm not sure what you mean by completely cycle. After it was fixed last Saturday morning, I used it pretty much all day with no problems whatsoever. That included moving brush, stumps, etc. with the grapple as well as box blading, and bush hogging.

 

[MrJimi]

A complete cycle means to extend/retract all your hydraulics all the way a few times, using it for a whole month will do nothing unless they are all the way out and all the way in a few times

 

[SkunkWerX]

I didn't see anyone mention the Light on the Grappple switch being OFF.
I'm wondering about the wiring and possible blown fuse for the grapple switch?

If it's a Solenoid operated diverter/selector valve, perhaps losing power, suddenly, to the solenoids/switch can that cause the bucket to drop?
hmmm. I don't think so. If it's wired and plumbed correctly.
Just thinking out loud......

Assuming your Grapple is plumbed with your Curl function:
What should happen, if the fuse blows, that runs the solenoids, you should lose function to Curl/Dump AND Grapple Up and Down. Raise/Lower should be unnaffected. The Solenoid Valves' position with NO Power to them is CLOSED.

1. When you turn your KEY to "ON" your switch light is still "OFF"?
(Could simply be a bad Led in the switch?)

2. With Key "ON" (tractor not Started) you should be able stand next to it, flip the switch and hear the Solenoids "click" as you switch the switch.
If you don't hear them, check for a blown fuse/ bad connection.

I'm not able to put together enough info. to figure out why the sudden drop on the bucket.

 

[EastTnFarmboy]

First, regarding the complete cycle. We did that the day the serviceman was here after he repaired the o-ring. We did it several times in fact.

Regarding the switch, I happened to think about the fuses this morning so I went out and checked them. They are all fine. I turned the tractor on and started fiddling with the button/switch that is supposed to light up when the Third Function is on. I was able to get the light to come on intermittently. A couple of times, it would stay on if I held it down. However, I wasn't able to get it to stay on when I let go of it. It appears that the switch has a short or some other malfunction. I know I won't use the correct technical terminology, but I assume there is a "little thing-a-majigger" in there that closes/opens the circuit when you push the button. Obviously, it should stay one way or the other until it is pressed again. Perhaps it has malfunctioned.

That still doesn't necessarily explain the drop.

Will the bent piece have to be replaced or will they try to repair it?