What was Kubota thinking?

[RobertN]

GI consider steering brakes manditory-yes, even on a 4wd cut. I went to the Kubota dealer fully expecting to come home with a 30ish hp hydrostatic loader tractor because I know they make a fine product. WHAT??? Hydro and brakes on the same side!! I DON'T HAVE 2 RIGHT FEET!! On to the JD dealer. THE FIRST thing to see is the pedal setup. YES, they are configured sanely! I am now the proud owner of a JD 4310.

I would offer that there are applications where steering brakes are useful. For the typical SCUT and CUT user though, they are not often useful, given 4wd and power steering.

On a 4wd, steering brakes are not useful unless you use 2wd. Otherwise, you are binding up the drive train and dragging the front end excessively. I have tried it with my B8200 4wd HST. 2WD, was ok, 4wd with steering brakes was useless.

Note also, at least in my post, IMHO. Your mileage may vary.

 

[gbick]

When I am pushing snow, and my front tires are spinning 10 inches above the pavement, steering brakes are my only directional control.Greg.

 

[gbick]

Now GOOD NIGHT! and I MEAN it this time. Greg.

 

[Stef]

Wow guys, you're in fire tonight.

I said earlier that I didn't like that setup very much on my B3030. BUT, I don't use brake steer on the lawn, it ruins it in no time. I don't use it on paved ground, it eats the tires. So the only use left is, like many other TBNers said, for agriculture applications. I don't do that kind of work with my tractor. So, that means I don't use brake steer at all. Ok, I don't like the setup but I never use it anyways. That's why I'm very happy with my tractor even if that setup isn't perfect IMHO. I still believe that Kubota produces great tractors.

 

[_RaT_]

When I am pushing snow, and my front tires are spinning 10 inches above the pavement, steering brakes are my only directional control.Greg.

Yep, thats what I hear. If you want hydrostatic and push snow around, I would suggest you look beyond Kubota. Other then that, I personally would have no compelling reason for differential braking. I used it on occasion with my International 2WD but once I got a hydrostatic, doing a quick y turn was so fast and easy, I never felt like it would be necessary. I tried it a few times with the cruise control, works great but cruise only works in forward so no backwards and split brakes, at least, not easily.

 

[sugarmaple]

On the new L 40 series, the brake pedals are inboard from the hydrostatic foot pedal. Kubota must have heard us grumbling!

 

[Berniep]

I don't have steering brakes on my BX and never needed them. They Are mandatory when making a turn at the end of the field on the old family White when discing (sp) the field in order to get turned back in one disc width. Jeesh ya make one extra pass down the field and you hear about it all summer.
"See where the corn is shorter there, you packed it down more in that row."

 

[_RaT_]

I don't have steering brakes on my BX and never needed them. They Are mandatory when making a turn at the end of the field on the old family White when discing (sp) the field in order to get turned back in one disc width. Jeesh ya make one extra pass down the field and you hear about it all summer.
"See where the corn is shorter there, you packed it down more in that row."

Interesting Bernie. Compaction has much more to do with root growth then we think and why low pressure extra large tires are becoming so common in new agricultural tractors.

 

[bx23barry]

<RobertN
On a 4wd, steering brakes are not useful unless you use 2wd. Otherwise, you are binding up the drive train and dragging the front end excessively.>

The brake only works on the rear tires and they push the front around. The “binding” really isn’t an issue in loose ground.

<Gbick
When I am pushing snow, and my front tires are spinning 10 inches above the pavement, steering brakes are my only directional control.>

Snow removal is the second biggest reason people buy SCUT and CUTs and it doesn’t make much sense to me to not have that feature. Even with the front wheels on the ground ice patches are a steering/traction challenge only compounded without steering brake control.

<RaT_
I personally would have no compelling reason for differential braking. I used it on occasion with my International 2WD but once I got a hydrostatic, doing a quick y turn was so fast and easy, I never felt like it would be necessary.>

That “y turn” isn’t available with a “drag” implement (and to me, is still a PITA). I don’t want a tire puckered by backing over my spike harrow trying to turn around.

<Stef
I don't use brake steer on the lawn, it ruins it in no time. I don't use it on paved ground, it eats the tires. So the only use left is, like many other TBNers said, for agriculture applications. I don't do that kind of work with my tractor. So, that means I don't use brake steer at all. Ok, I don't like the setup but I never use it anyways. That's why I'm very happy with my tractor even if that setup isn't perfect IMHO.>

This really is the point. Most SCUT and CUT owners mow and move snow. They don’t do much agriculture/ground work, and what they do is pretty small scale with 3 point attachments and no real row crops. The diff lock and power steering works well enough to forget about or never learn the advantages of real steering brakes in low traction and tricky maneuvering situations. I am happy with my bx23 and I don’t mow or move snow but is without steering brakes and I do miss them. It is pretty funny for so many to defend a poor design though.

 

[RobertN]

<RobertN
On a 4wd, steering brakes are not useful unless you use 2wd. Otherwise, you are binding up the drive train and dragging the front end excessively.>

The brake only works on the rear tires and they push the front around. The “binding” really isn’t an issue in loose ground.

It is pretty funny for so many to defend a poor design though.

I am not defending the lack of steering brakes. I have no use for them, so it does not matter either way. From years and years of 4-wheeling expierience in tractors, Jeeps, and pickups, my personal expierience has been that running a turning brake while in 4wd will stress the drive train. Although my Kubota only has brakes on the rear axle, once the 4wd lever is engaged, it engages and stresses the front end and drive train when hitting the steering brakes.

Part of the steering brakes is left over from gear tractors; my B8200 was available new with 2wd or 4wd, gear or HST. I have seen the gear versions, and could see where the steering brakes would work much easier because you did not have to hit the brake and HST at the same time.

I am not so sure it is a poor design, as these CUTS were not designed to do that. It's kind of like years back, if you looked at the front of tractors there were holes for the hand crank to turn over the engine. Even though they had electrical systems and starters.

It is interesting trying it though. In 2wd, with big feet stomping the brake and the HST, mine will spin on a dime. It is much easier on my gear tranny Farmall-A though.

 

[Sully2]

When I am pushing snow, and my front tires are spinning 10 inches above the pavement, steering brakes are my only directional control.Greg.

Now Im first to admit that Im not tractor geek.. But it kinda seems to ME that if your front wheels are 10 inches up in the air...you're not getting "full usefulness" out of 4 wheel drive???? Id suggest A LOT of suitcase weights...or a different approach to snow plowing???....

 

[KeithInSpace]

10 inches up in the air...confused

I'm a little confused as well. Seems the "float" would keep the wheels on the ground, although I concede that they still don't do a darn thing unless you actually lift the FEL off the ground (out of float). Had plenty of practice with that. Don't see any point to driving around with the front end propped up in the air.

Snow removal is the second biggest reason people buy SCUT and CUTs and it doesn’t make much sense to me to not have that feature.

Am I missing something? Does any SCUT comes with independent braking of the rear wheels? I honestly don't know, but also don't recall seeing this feature on the Deere 2305 or smallest NH Boomer, the two major competitors to the BX line as I see it.

 

[_RaT_]

I'm a little confused as well. Seems the "float" would keep the wheels on the ground, although I concede that they still don't do a darn thing unless you actually lift the FEL off the ground (out of float). Had plenty of practice with that. Don't see any point to driving around with the front end propped up in the air.



Am I missing something? Does any SCUT comes with independent braking of the rear wheels? I honestly don't know, but also don't recall seeing this feature on the Deere 2305 or smallest NH Boomer, the two major competitors to the BX line as I see it.

Almost all do, the ones that I know do not are Kubotas with HST, at least not in an easily useable way. Kubotas with shuttle or standard manuals have independent braking. Out here, very few people buy tractors for snow removal.

 

[RobertN]

Almost all do, the ones that I know do not are Kubotas with HST, at least not in an easily useable way. Kubotas with shuttle or standard manuals have independent braking. Out here, very few people buy tractors for snow removal.

Wadda ya mean? We had almost a whole inch of snow a couple weeks ago

 

[alchemysa]

I find that to be unsafe, especially when plowing snow around cars , buildings etc. I just cross my left foot over to the brake pedals,

I've never used a tractor for serious Ag work but around my little building projects I too find this setup pretty annoying. The HST (with a big pedal) is awkward when you are picking up or dropping building material and you just want to move an inch or two forward or back over those mounds that seem to spring up everywhere around building sites. It wants to get over that bump and keep rolling before I can hit the brake or reverse! Ideally, in these situations I'd like to have my foot gently on the brake at the same time as my foot is on the HST. With practice that would give me the best control I think. (But I still love having an 'auto' rather than a 'manual').

 

[_RaT_]

I've never used a tractor for serious Ag work but around my little building projects I too find this setup pretty annoying. The HST (with a big pedal) is awkward when you are picking up or dropping building material and you just want to move an inch or two forward or back over those mounds that seem to spring up everywhere around building sites. It wants to get over that bump and keep rolling before I can hit the brake or reverse! Ideally, in these situations I'd like to have my foot gently on the brake at the same time as my foot is on the HST. With practice that would give me the best control I think. (But I still love having an 'auto' rather than a 'manual').

I find you comment interesting. I use the HST quite differently then you I think. If super precise control is needed, I go to low range. In low range the HST has very little creep and it is easy for me to get my foot on the pedal either way (F or R) to stop all roll. I have never had more control of a tractor then with HST. One example is with my post hole auger. When I am on a incline/decline drilling, I hold my postion with the HST pedal and actually move the tractor up or back as the arc changes which happens as the auger gets deeper. It is super precise. My left foot is always ready to stomp on the clutch if I hit a large object with the auger to stop the PTO.

 

[alchemysa]

I have never had more control of a tractor then with HST. QUOTE]

I must admit that my impression of the poor control afforded by the HST in close situations was probably formed in the early days of getting the tractor. Back then it had a badly blocked strainer and the oil flow was terrible so the HST was almost running on air. In fact when I had a heavy load on it would even roll backward when I had the thing in 'forward'! Certainly, since cleaning the strainer, the HST control is much, much better.

 

[Sully2]

Almost all do, the ones that I know do not are Kubotas with HST, at least not in an easily useable way. Kubotas with shuttle or standard manuals have independent braking. Out here, very few people buy tractors for snow removal.

If I DONT have independant rear wheel braking..??...then why do I have TWO brake pedals? ( which "I" always keep locked together anyway)

 

[Sully2]

I find you comment interesting. I use the HST quite differently then you I think. If super precise control is needed, I go to low range. In low range the HST has very little creep and it is easy for me to get my foot on the pedal either way (F or R) to stop all roll. I have never had more control of a tractor then with HST. One example is with my post hole auger. When I am on a incline/decline drilling, I hold my postion with the HST pedal and actually move the tractor up or back as the arc changes which happens as the auger gets deeper. It is super precise. My left foot is always ready to stomp on the clutch if I hit a large object with the auger to stop the PTO.

Same procedure here. LR is "creep" for me and I can move up or back a tiny bit easily. No clutch on a B3030...but if I start to get an auger "stuck"...I just kill the throttle...PTO stops pretty quickly.

 

[_RaT_]

If I DONT have independant rear wheel braking..??...then why do I have TWO brake pedals? ( which "I" always keep locked together anyway)

Almost all do, the ones that I know do not are Kubotas with HST, at least not in an easily useable way. That was the key phrase in my post. You can split the pedals sure, but you have to ride side saddle to use them independently.