Welder specs

[bones1]

Just came back from my local welding store am
looking for a mig that will weld 3/8 in a single pass.Depending on which brand's flyer you read the amps needed for welding 3/8 plate varies.Millermatic 175 says up to 1/4.
Hobart Handler 180 says up to 5/16(which is Miller now) putting out 5 more amps.ThermalArc 190 brochure also says 5/16, 10 more amps ,guy at the store says 3/8 is no problem with the ThermalArc.Finally if I move up to the Millermatic 210 I get my 3/8 in a single pass......for a price.What do you guys use,I was under the impression that a 175 machine could do 3/8.
How are these machines rated,like horsepower net vs gross?
If I can get the 190 amp machine for $895.00 vs $1599.00 for the 210 amp and they will both weld 3/8 that would be a given.I think the key words here are "in a single pass".

 

[MadReferee]

I used a MM175 for all of my projects up until this spring when I upgraded to a MM251. The MM175 will do just fine on 3/8" although I used at least 2 passes for most joints. For the price, the MM175 is a very versitle welder. It did a fantastic job on 1/4" and sheet metal.

 

[RonMar]

Another factor will be the duty cycle at that max rateing. Waiting for the welder to cool down can slow you down considerably if you have a project with a lot of welding. I have a smaller lincoln mig I use and it has a pretty good duty cycle up to 1/4". On my larget projects, I need to plan my assembly carefully so I can move to different processes(grinding, cutting, drilling) and give the welder a break without halting progress alltogether.

 

[AlanB]

I run a MM 250 and just don't see doing 3/8" single pass welds satisfactorily.

Is that something you plan on doing regularly?

I would look at a 250 if it was me. Miller, Lincoln,,,, maybe ESAB or Panasonic. But probably Miller / Lincoln.

 

[Sully2]

Just came back from my local welding store am
looking for a mig that will weld 3/8 in a single pass.Depending on which brand's flyer you read the amps needed for welding 3/8 plate varies.Millermatic 175 says up to 1/4.
Hobart Handler 180 says up to 5/16(which is Miller now) putting out 5 more amps.ThermalArc 190 brochure also says 5/16, 10 more amps ,guy at the store says 3/8 is no problem with the ThermalArc.Finally if I move up to the Millermatic 210 I get my 3/8 in a single pass......for a price.What do you guys use,I was under the impression that a 175 machine could do 3/8.
How are these machines rated,like horsepower net vs gross?
If I can get the 190 amp machine for $895.00 vs $1599.00 for the 210 amp and they will both weld 3/8 that would be a given.I think the key words here are "in a single pass".

Here is what the guys at th nearest to me welding shop told me..as Im "interested" in getting a MIG welder ( although a LOT smaller than what you are wanting) They said."AS A RULE OF THUMB"...take whatever many AMPS of AC a stick welder needs to weld "X" thickness...and figure 3/4's of that for a DC MIG welder. Now that dont mean in ONE PASS...that just means to be able to do the job...if you get my drift. So ..personally..Id figure it would take "some"..."lots".??..more than 75% to get it done in a single pass..

So using that formula..250 amps AC = 188 amps DC...just to be able to do it at all!!

Im not saying this is fact..just what was told to me because I dont know didly squat..other than electic welders USE electric....

 

[MotorSeven]

I just posted this in a Customization thread....The Lincoln 175HD(pro) at Lowes/HD can handle .45 wire and claims it can handle up to 1/2 plate using gas and proper wire. Maybe someone here that owns one of these can comment. It is the same price as the Miller and Hobart .....$600 or less with a coupon.

RD

 

[MadReferee]

I just posted this in a Customization thread....The Lincoln 175HD(pro) at Lowes/HD can handle .45 wire and claims it can handle up to 1/2 plate using gas and proper wire. Maybe someone here that owns one of these can comment. It is the same price as the Miller and Hobart .....$600 or less with a coupon.

I assume you mean the SP-175 Plus. The Lincoln web site does not list a 175HD Pro so it must be a special label for Lowes/HD, etc.

Anyway, I think you should read the spec sheet VERY carefully. The marketing blurb says it will weld 1/2" with .045 (NOT .45) flux core wire, but when you get down to the nitty gritty charts you will find that it will only do up to 1/4" in a SINGLE PASS and up to 1/2" in MULTIPLE PASSES. This is the same as the Miller MM175 or Hobart models.

It always pays to read the marketing hype with a grain of salt and go right to the actual performance charts for the real information.

The performance chart is on page two of the spec sheet.

http://content.lincolnelectric.com/pdfs/products/literature/e735.pdf

 

[Sully2]

I used a MM175 for all of my projects up until this spring when I upgraded to a MM251. The MM175 will do just fine on 3/8" although I used at least 2 passes for most joints. For the price, the MM175 is a very versitle welder. It did a fantastic job on 1/4" and sheet metal.

As a "rule of thumb" does that sort of apply to ALL brands of the 175-180 amp range? Hobart..Miller...Lincoln..etc?

 

[AlanB]

Amperage and Voltage don't much care what brand of machine produces them.......

Although the bigger names are more likely to give you straighter stories on their machines capabilities.

 

[MadReferee]

MIG welders in the 170-185 amp range are usually only rated for 1/4" for a single pass. Thicker metals will require multiple passes.

If you are going to do 3/8" on a regular basis and want to do it successfully in a single pass then get a 200-225 amp MIG.

If you want to weld 1/2" in a single pass then you need to get something in the 250+ amp range. That is why I upgraded to a MM251.

The biggest difference between brands of the same amp range is duty cycle. The better brand units will have a greater duty cycle. That is usually what you are paying the extra money for.

 

[Sully2]

...
The biggest difference between brands of the same amp range is duty cycle. The better brand units will have a greater duty cycle. That is usually what you are paying the extra money for.

I got ya.. Yep! I see that when I read their specs.. More $$...more duty cycle time.

 

[Stimw]

Miller under rates their machines. I have had a MM 210 for 5 1/2 years and I can tell you it is worth the money. I have welded 1/2" single pass with no problems.
For the best info you can go to www.millermotorsports.com (mostly about welding) go to the ask andy forum and you can do a search on the 210 and 175. There are probably hundreds of posts about happy owners.

 

[AntrimMan]

I like heavy things, 'ceptin women, so I looked at the net weight of the welders when I was in the market. Heavier seems to mean higher duty cycle. The MM210 is a bit heavier than the competition, amp for amp.

 

[Dargo]

If you want to weld 1/2" in a single pass then you need to get something in the 250+ amp range. That is why I upgraded to a MM251.

Before I really read the manual and realized that the chart under the lid is pretty accurate, I ran the wire speed to 400 and the voltage to 30. Amazingly enough, you'll blow a hole in 1/2" mild steel there. I found that 24 and about 330 work best with .035 wire.

 

[MadReferee]

Before I really read the manual and realized that the chart under the lid is pretty accurate, I ran the wire speed to 400 and the voltage to 30. Amazingly enough, you'll blow a hole in 1/2" mild steel there. I found that 24 and about 330 work best with .035 wire.

I have tried 24/400 and had decent results. If I could find some generic .045 wire I would like to give that a try as I think it would be much better. I haven't played much with it this summer since I have been busy with other home remodel projects.

 

[schmism]

I know a number of my friends that fab a lot of stuff for the off road world swear by the MM210. They say if your gonna go with a portable version (ie a 110v unit) keep it around for tack welds and sheet metal work. But if your gonna be doing anything heavy just go ahead and save your self the headache and step up to the mm210 or 245.

I know a number of guys that have bought a smaller handler 175 thinking that it would work fine for 3/8 and stuff and found that the duty cycle was killing them.

 

[Dargo]

I know a number of guys that have bought a smaller handler 175 thinking that it would work fine for 3/8 and stuff and found that the duty cycle was killing them.

Yeah, the duty cycle is absolutely no big deal at all....except when your welder shuts down in the middle of running a bead!

 

[MadReferee]

I know a number of guys that have bought a smaller handler 175 thinking that it would work fine for 3/8 and stuff and found that the duty cycle was killing them.

If you read the literature, Miller rates the MM175 at 1/4" single pass, 3/8" multiple passes. Those guys should have done their homework first.

In the almost 4 years I had my MM175 I never once exceeded the duty cycle causing a power supply cutoff. I did some very heavy welding but with all of my projects never exceeded the rated 30% duty cycle at 130 amps. I can see how someone doing a lot of continuous welding on a car chassis could exceed the duty cycle but the average home hobbyist or tractor welder will never come close. If you look at the duty cycle chart, you will see that if you are welding lighter materials you will be using less amps thus increasing the duty cycle.

The MM175 works fantastic for anything under 3/8". If you want to do a lot of 3/8" and above you should be looking at the MM210 or MM251. Like my dad used to say, "Get the right tool for the job".

 

[schmism]

Remember that AFAIK duty cycle is generally refered to in 10 min intervalls

30% would be weld for 3 min "rest" for 7.

Ive welded easly for more than 3 min straight especially on the thicker (yes multi pass) stuff.


I personally dont have a welder in my current shop, i kinda share shops with a guy down the street and he has a small mig and the "can-o-woop-as" syncrowave tig that we bust out for anything 1/4" and thicker. You want to talk about puting some heat down

as for when i permantly relocate to my new property ill be getting a mm210 at least

 

[InlineDieselFan]

bones1,

I have been following this thread as I too would like to get a welder, I have been shopping for a used MIG welder 210 or bigger size for the past few months.

I was over at www.lincolnelectric.com they have a pretty good 'knowledge' area where they answer lots of questions and do some education on the different terms. I thought it was useful, you may want to take a look.

steve