Warming hydraulics

[duroc]

Spoke with a NH tech today about how badly the hydraulics whine when it's cold outside. I use a engine coolant heater when temps get below 35 degrees, but I also go out and start the engine and let it run while I don my cold weather clothes. The Coolant heater does nothing for the hydraulic system, so he recommends engaging the PTO upon engine start-up to heat the hydro fluid while I'm in the house changing clothes. Of course, this is with no PTO moving implements attached and the PTO cover in place. I'm just curious as to how many of you guys/gals do this?

 

[Msamt]

I do, nothing on my 3pt, but it does get the hydro fluid moving, and heated up

 

[Avondale]

I run my PTO/Snow blower while tractor warms up. I also cycle my FEL a number of times in an effort to exchange the fluid from the four rams back to the tank and replaced with warmer oil from the tank. Not sure if this is actually how it works but it is my theory.

 

[Tractor Seabee]

I have been curious about why tractor manufacturers have crankcase heaters available but no HST sump heater port. It seems the HST is more critical than the engine in that if the engine turns over and starts it will soon warm up from the combustion. Even in the mild weather we have here in Puget Sound it takes a long time to feel any heat in the HST fluid. The suction strainer seems like a good place for a HST heater w/o making a new tapping.

Ron

 

[BarnieTrk]

I wonder how well a three heater system would be accepted - the three heaters would be hard wired together and brought to a single pigtail plug at the side of the steering tower. The single plug harness would feed power to a 400-watt coolant soft plug emersion block heater, a 100-watt 5"x7" pad heater located at the base of the battery box, and a 600-watt 6"x10" pad heater mounted on a protected location of the hydraulic storage tank. A fella would need a heavy cord no more than 25ft long to feed them, but it sure would keep your tractor toasty during sub-freezing temperatures!

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

 

[Jim Timber]

Deere manual says to turn the steering wheel to full lock in one direction for a couple minutes to warm the fluid.

 

[roadhunter]

I wonder how well a three heater system would be accepted - the three heaters would be hard wired together and brought to a single pigtail plug at the side of the steering tower. The single plug harness would feed power to a 400-watt coolant soft plug emersion block heater, a 100-watt 5"x7" pad heater located at the base of the battery box, and a 600-watt 6"x10" pad heater mounted on a protected location of the hydraulic storage tank. A fella would need a heavy cord no more than 25ft long to feed them, but it sure would keep your tractor toasty during sub-freezing temperatures!

BarnieTrk :thumbsup:

That is similar to what I do. I have a factory block heater, a battery heater, a magnetic block heater, and a flexible pad that I put between the motor and the fuel lines. Sometimes I also put a charger on the battery to help as the glow plugs can draw one down when we get to sub zero temps. I need to upgrade the battery before next winter.

I like the PTO idea. Will give that a try tomorrow. I am still cleaning up form last nights blizzard.

 

[BarnieTrk]

Deere manual says to turn the steering wheel to full lock in one direction for a couple minutes to warm the fluid.

Jim,
Based on what I've read, your JD 5045E appears to be a VERY nice tractor. I am not familiar with the "partially synchronized "SyncShuttle" transmission.

Is that what is commonly referred to as a Hydrostatic Transmission?
You don't have a clutch, right?
If it is, then I would suspect that the steering system fluid is part of the entire hydraulic system, correct?

If I am understanding it correctly - by turning your steering wheel back n' forth would cause a warming of the fluid. By engaging your PTO would also cause a warming of the hydraulic fluid.

In comparison (from my novice understanding of it), the steering system on my ol' 1989 FORD 1720 with 4x4 & FEL options, is a separate system with it's own fluid reservoir. So turning my steering wheel only causes a warming of its stand-alone system fluid. However, by cycling the FEL up & down & rolling the bucket back n' forth as well as engaging the PTO, will cause a warming of its main/large hydraulic fluid.

BarnieTrk :reading:

 

[Walkin Horse]

I went out just now to load some manure for a guy. It's 15 here this morning and the coldest it's been while starting the tractor.

I don't have any hydraulic working. I idle it up to operating temp, and still nothing. Loader won't move. Thumb won't operate and the 3 ph drops but won't come up.

Usually when I use it is in the afternoon but this week is coldest yet. It operated fine yesterday afternoon.

I ran the pto while it warmed up. I cut it off and checked the fluid level and it's good, but still felt cold.

Any ideas that this may not be just cold weather problems? I can't even pull it out in the sun with the bucket down. And I got a guy that wants to come at 1 to get a roll of hay.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

 

[SSdoxie]

I went out just now to load some manure for a guy. It's 15 here this morning and the coldest it's been while starting the tractor.

I don't have any hydraulic working. I idle it up to operating temp, and still nothing. Loader won't move. Thumb won't operate and the 3 ph drops but won't come up.

Usually when I use it is in the afternoon but this week is coldest yet. It operated fine yesterday afternoon.

I ran the pto while it warmed up. I cut it off and checked the fluid level and it's good, but still felt cold.

Any ideas that this may not be just cold weather problems? I can't even pull it out in the sun with the bucket down. And I got a guy that wants to come at 1 to get a roll of hay.

Sent from my iPhone using TractorByNet

Take teh drain plug loose and see if any oil comes out. Sounds like you have water in oil and it is frozen.

 

[arlen4720]

I have been curious about why tractor manufacturers have crankcase heaters available but no HST sump heater port. It seems the HST is more critical than the engine in that if the engine turns over and starts it will soon warm up from the combustion. Even in the mild weather we have here in Puget Sound it takes a long time to feel any heat in the HST fluid. The suction strainer seems like a good place for a HST heater w/o making a new tapping.

Ron

Most, if not all, John Deere tractors have a hydraulic sump heater available as an option. In the case of my 4720, it screws into a pipe plug on the sump. I don't have one, but I'm thinking about it.

 

[Jim Timber]

Jim,
Based on what I've read, your JD 5045E appears to be a VERY nice tractor. I am not familiar with the "partially synchronized "SyncShuttle" transmission.

Is that what is commonly referred to as a Hydrostatic Transmission?
You don't have a clutch, right?
If it is, then I would suspect that the steering system fluid is part of the entire hydraulic system, correct?

If I am understanding it correctly - by turning your steering wheel back n' forth would cause a warming of the fluid. By engaging your PTO would also cause a warming of the hydraulic fluid.

In comparison (from my novice understanding of it), the steering system on my ol' 1989 FORD 1720 with 4x4 & FEL options, is a separate system with it's own fluid reservoir. So turning my steering wheel only causes a warming of its stand-alone system fluid. However, by cycling the FEL up & down & rolling the bucket back n' forth as well as engaging the PTO, will cause a warming of its main/large hydraulic fluid.

BarnieTrk :reading:

There's two pumps for the steering and everything else, but there's only one reservoir (the rear axle). By forcing the fluid through the steering pump it warms everything.

The transmission has 3 ranges (A/B/C) and a fully syncronized 4 speed mated to that gear box. So you can shift on the fly into the 3F/R of the range you're in, but you can't change ranges while moving. You do need to use the clutch to shift, and yes it has one. I'm an old school kind of guy even though this is my first tractor. Having the shuttle shift would be wonderful for loader work, but I've been driving manuals since I was 15 (24 yrs) and it's second nature (or will be once I get used to the gate pattern on this tractor ).

I thought long and hard about what machine to buy and in the end having the simplest machine with the closest dealer seemed like the best plan for now. It was this or the MF2605/15 because of front axle strength for loader work, and the Deere won me over in the seat and service department available. I have one MF dealer that's 30 miles away and they're a very small shop. My Deere dealer is 17 miles and they have 5 or 6 locations in the state. Given my only warranty service on my atv (horrible experience), the dealer is almost as important as the machines capabilities. If I break something major, I don't want to wonder what's going to go south when they're fixing it. I'm pretty mechanically inclined, so anything I'd be having them do would be beyond my capabilities and severe. The atv warranty service from **** was all simple stuff, but I wanted it covered under warranty to pay for the parts and they ended up doing more harm than good before I pulled the machine and fixed it myself.

I haven't taken delivery of my tractor yet either. We're waiting on a loader for it and Deere's last delivery date was Feb 13th. My salesman said he thinks it'll only take another week, and that they were just bogged down from being shut down for the holidays. The machine was a one-owner single year use trade with 60 hours on it. Tier 2 emissions and theoretically built in Georgia vs India, but I forgot to check the plate.

Needless to say, I'm itching to get it.

 

[TAZ DEVIL]

Newholland has a sump heater for my t1510. I installed one last year, seemed to help, ... a little. This winter I wonder if it's working at all :-(
Guess I need to check it's ohms.
Definitely going to try warming with PTO.

 

[duroc]

Newholland has a sump heater for my t1510. I installed one last year, seemed to help, ... a little. This winter I wonder if it's working at all :-(
Guess I need to check it's ohms.
Definitely going to try warming with PTO.

I thought about buying one for mine until you said it seemed to help "a little". I don't know what they cost, but if it does work and it's not too pricey, I guess it would be money well-spent. I see NH has a cold weather HST filter and a multiviscosity oil (F200) for temps at or below 0 degrees F. But, since I changed my fluid and filter only 30 hours ago I won't consider doing that until next year. I did run my PTO yesterday to preheat and it seemed to make a difference in hydraulic noise.

Webberville? That's a nice little town! I used to stop there for lunch or dinner on my way to/from Fowlerville fair.

:welcome:

 

[IceStationZebra]

When I worked for CaseIH they wouldn't call them sump heaters for fear of false advertising - only heat "maintainers". The reality is that if a tractor is outside with any wind there is a LOT of surface area that will shed what heat the small immersion heater can put out from a 15 amp extension cord.

Like has been suggested, when it is very cold I hold a hydraulic function at relief for 15-20 seconds, return to neutral for 10 seconds, and repeat until warm. I like to cycle it, especially at first, so the pump doesn't heat up so fast it might be damaged.

ISZ

 

[TAZ DEVIL]

I thought about buying one for mine until you said it seemed to help "a little". I don't know what they cost, but if it does work and it's not too pricey, I guess it would be money well-spent. I see NH has a cold weather HST filter and a multiviscosity oil (F200) for temps at or below 0 degrees F. But, since I changed my fluid and filter only 30 hours ago I won't consider doing that until next year. I did run my PTO yesterday to preheat and it seemed to make a difference in hydraulic noise.

Webberville? That's a nice little town! I used to stop there for lunch or dinner on my way to/from Fowlerville fair.

:welcome:

I got heater from Messicks, think it was about $60.
I'm staring to think I've got something wrong in the diverter valve.
Although it does quite down after about a hour.
I did change oil last year with JD20. Wishing now I went with F200.
Lydin oil in Lansing has F200 equivalent for good price (wish on that too)

By any chance do you have a service manual ?

 

[duroc]

I got heater from Messicks, think it was about $60.
I'm staring to think I've got something wrong in the diverter valve.
Although it does quite down after about a hour.
I did change oil last year with JD20. Wishing now I went with F200.
Lydin oil in Lansing has F200 equivalent for good price (wish on that too)

By any chance do you have a service manual ?

I've been pretty busy lately and haven't had a chance to search for a heater. I'll have to look in to the heater at Messick's in the next few days. I think next year I'll try the F200. The tech also told me I could mix 50/50, but I'm not so sure I'd go that route.

I do not have a service manual, but have often thought about purchasing one. Sorry!

 

[Dr_Zinj]

I always cycle my FEL and 3pt a couple of times after the engine has warmed up for 5 to 10 minutes on a cold day. Never tried engaging the PTO while it was disconnected. I'll have to try that this week and see if it makes a difference in warming the hydraulics up any faster.

 

[puckgrinder85]

Its not the fact that working the steering back and forth that's causing the heating (although it will work it will take longer) Its the fact that is being bypassed over the relief valve. This generates a lot of heat because of the restriction. This would also work if you used the loader and held in a position to put the system into relief (ie dump the bucket all the way and hold it for a while). This is also the reason you need to spec hoses for the right flow rates as excess heat can be built if there is too much restriction. Pushing fluid through one of the reliefs in the system is going to get fluid warm pretty quickly.

 

[BarnieTrk]

...Its the fact that is being bypassed over the relief valve. This generates a lot of heat because of the restriction. Pushing fluid through one of the reliefs in the system is going to get fluid warm pretty quickly.

If a fella was to do so, isn't that kinda hard on the relief valves or no?

BarnieTrk