Using biodiesel and various

[Blu 82]

I have been told that we can't burn biodiesel in our Mahindras. Can anyone answer why or what we would have to do to burn biodiesel? Sure seems a shame since bio can be made for about $.70 vs $4.20 for offroad diesel. I think Mahindra could make a nice profit if they came out with a "kit" for dealers to install on tractors so they could burn bio (if possible).

BTW, I have 310 hrs and so far so good on my 7520. One problem is a 4-5 inch split/gash (not caused by me) in a Titan front tire. Mahindra dealer says it isn't covered under warranty. Another dealer said drive til fail then have it fixed. Another issue is the horn doesn't work--not that big a deal I guess. Other than that, no real major issues and most of the problems I have had have been operator error. My dealer went out of business and the closest one now is about 50 miles. He was a good guy.

I am looking for a 4 row planter (with dry fertilizer boxes) and a 7-10 ft disc. I have priced a new White planter and almost had a heart attack. Can someone tell me why they are about as expensive as a car?? New discs aren't cheap either! I know metal is more expensive but I didn't think these things were that complicated to be so expensive.

Sure could use some of that rain up north down here in the Panhandle of FL. Sad to see all that destruction up there.

 

[magyarbacsi]

You will get as many different answeres as the number of times you ask. Just yesterday I've asked that same question from a German fellow who is a mechanic for a trucking co. He said in Europe, they mix vegetable oil with diesel in warm weather only. The trouble with bio fuel, the most common, that in warm weather it is fine,but when it gets cold the fuel gells and clogs the injectors. I also listen to a radio talk show where people call in with various mechanical problems, including diesel motors, and Tom Turner, the host, said the same thing. It tends to clog the system.
The earth worshiper and tree huggers will tell you it's fine as they are more concerned about mother earth than your truck/tractor. The true test is how the fuel works after hundreds of hours. I'm not sold on biodiesel yet. I dont know what mechanical problems it could cause. Clogged injector system would require mainly labor of tearing it down and flushing the system, replacing filters and removing/replacing injectors. Go to truck stops and ask the guys who drive the big rigs and put thousand of miles on their motor. See what they think.

 

[driver444]

Most trucking companies around here that have their own fuel pumps (talking from experience) are running a 5% biodiesel mix. That's what my company does, and we had very few incidents of gelling and clogged filters this past winter. (a couple more than normal). I think what they're trying to do is gradually increase the amount of "bio" in the diesel to see how it's gonna be come winter time. JMHO.

Also, I work with a guy that has a Ford diesel pickup with dual tanks. He has Bio in one, and low sulpher in the other. He seems to like it, but he says he has to start the truck on the regular fuel, then switch tanks to run on the BIO. Then, before he shuts it off, he switches back to the regular, and lets it run a while. Sounds like a PITA to me

 

[civesnedfield]

The no Biodiesel in Mahindra tractors, comes right from Mahindra. They gave no reason for this. If your machine is brand new and still under warranty I wouldn't think of it. If you are out of warranty then it's your chioce.

 

[Blu 82]

I guess the question still stands. Any dealers care to answer?

Since offroad diesel is more expensive than gas, I am sure I am not the only one looking at biodiesel. It will continue to be an issue from now on since gas/diesel prices aren't generally going to get cheaper.

As for gelling, I guess that could be considered a seasonal issue depending on what temp the issue occurs. For us here in FL, we have basically two seasons, summer and fall. Here in the panhandle we do get cold temps, even below freezing several times but generally it is well above freezing. If gelling is the only issue, that could be easily controlled by changing the fuel used based on the season.

 

[LBrown59]

I work with a guy that has a Ford diesel pickup with low sulpher in one tank.

Ain't this illegal ?????????

 

[Dallas_Lilly]

There are some problems with gelling in Bio diesel especially in blends beyond B20 but the biggest problem I commonly see in the fleet industry is the quality of fuel. When you get ULSD from a marketer you can almost guarantee that the fuel you are purchasing is a quality fuel. There are exceptions but considering the volume that is distributed everyday there is not a whole lot of bad diesel out there. On the other hand BIO up until recently did not have an ASTM standard and what you got is what you got. The ASTM standard has helped but even so the the standard does not set a standard on two very important items.

One is the cloud point and there could be different cloud point for different feed stocks. One load that uses soy could cloud and gel earlier later than a load that uses animal fats.

The other is that it does not address is the blending method with diesel. Some distributors do not use inline blending and will just put diesel on top of bio in the delivery truck and depending how much splashing is occuring in the delivery truck you would not have a consistent blend.

The safest way to purchase bio is to make sure that it was produced by a BQ-9000 certified producer and that will ensure decent fuel. The biodiesel board issues this certification to producers that have passed their test. That may be hard to determine when purchasing in small quantities.

I work for a local county fleet and have been pushed to use bio in our fleet and when I did the research I did not and still do not think that it was a wise use of tax payers dollars. The city fleet uses it and this winter we had a cold snap and there were several garbage trucks parked because of gelling. No trucks=no trash pickup.

Sorry to ramble on, I just saw this thread and thought I would chime in.

 

[Charlie175]

I'd run a mix in the summer, but not winter.
I guess winter is OK if you have a tank heater.

 

[NorCalMatt]

Hey magyarbacsi:

I'm curious. Assuming all the bugs are worked out of biodiesel production, and it costs less than half what you're paying for petro-diesel, will you still not use it?

After all, wouldn't that make you a "earth worshiper and tree hugger"? We couldn't stand that now could we?

(for the humor-challenged, warning: the above post may contain sarcasm)

 

[tsterkel]

I am a fan of bio-diesel, and would have converted an old electrical water heater by now, except that a neighbor ran over my turbo-diesel VW. My use in the Tractor is not high enough to amortize the cost of the home-brew.

That aside, and as a fan of bio-diesel, I believe that what others in this thread have said is accurate, if somewhat confusing in how they presented it. My addition is about diesel engine/vehicle companies making use of bio-diesel a warranty-violator. This is common across every company that I am aware of. They apparently hope that you do not notice that in their country of origin that BD is used up to 80%, depending on the country, and time of year. My only explanation that makes sense, to me, is that here in the good old North America, there are no controls on feed stock, type and quality, and process (several QA steps). To be safe, they just write it into their warranty, then it is not an issue for them.

As a BD fan, I have never seen a documented study that clearly put blame for damage on BD. Of course, depending on the feed stock and QA, if your percentage gets over 5% in the winter, you can create a mess and have to pull the vehicle into a heated garage to get it going again.

Bio-Diesel rules!

 

[bludev]

I have used 100% biodiesel in my tractor (Mahindra 6500), truck (duramax chevy), and car (05 VW Passat) with no problems other than a few clogged fuel filters in the first couple of tanks. I do get my fuel from a commercial source, who has been a pioneer in the bio-diesel industry here in North Carolina. I usually run a 50/50 mix in the winter just to be on the safe side because 100% "bd" will gel in cold weather. And "bd" does have a detergent property that will clean your fuel tank (the reason for clogged filters at first).

BTW, CaseIH and I'm assuming New Holland have approved 100% "bd" in their tractors ... it is rather ironic that other tractor manufacturers will not approve something that could help there sales ("bd" come from the oils produced by soy beans and canola among other plants) and their customers (farmers).
If I had known that Case and New Holland were approving b100 in their equipment and Mahindra wouldn't, I would be driving a different make of red tractor now.

The big thing for me in this whole "bd" discussion is that I too am trying to be as carbon nnutral as possible with my farming ... I guess that makes me an outcast

 

[dirtdabbler]

Hello all, I'm a new member and haven't posted much here, I have look into this BD thing and have for the last couple of years made my own... Built the processor or reactor Ect..ect.. Too I agree with much of what has been said here... All that I have read here are true in biofuels... The cold weather and clogging... But I think I can add some things that can help a little...

Fuel lines...

Bio deisel will eat rubber lines.. and this can contribute to filter clogging... As well as injector problems and build up of certain residues in the engine... Although things seem to run alright and engine that should last 20, 30 ,40 years may only last ten if certain things aren't taken in account....

In some that I made... I had a rubber washer laying on a table in a puddle of BD, it melted it... So if you have rubber lines as some of the lower HP ranges do... Straite BD will do much damage... If there are any rubber gaskets or washers in the fuel injectors beware.... If your fuel lines are made out of a rubber ((that can withstand the properties of BD)), and too that clean your tank and lines, that can later lead to filter clogging from a percentage mixure? Then that isn't a problem.. Poly etholine lined rubber fuel line will probably work ok... SOme interior rubber lines are coated with that hard plastic liner, but I don't see them on mahindra but haven't tore them apart to really check either and I have owned two mahindra 2615 and now new 4110....

The New desiel engines from Mahindra especially in the lower HP range are very fuel efficient and MAhindra designed these engines with standard desiel grade fuels not blends or Mixtures of varing fuels or oils... It's true that a desiel engines can burn alot of different oils, but too the systems that feed the oils are what the issues end up being.... What differs from BD and Veg blends and what BD producers crow about is fatty acids..

BD transterifacation converts using ethenol or methanol and a reactant... This is usually a processor for used oils because they contain higher levels of fat from the cooked foods... Transterifacation converts the fatty acids into a Glycern extract... But Veg oils that boast O% fat often are used in blends don't... BD also is about a balance of lubrication and engine ware... Too the rates of combustionable material in the fuels which can harm or cause a tractor to run incorrectly... Why many caution about additives and blends... Its all about balance... It's Why You have a standard 5 % mixture in most OK,, Go ahead...... This can help keep a clean engines while keeping within the low risk of injector damage, line damage.

Mahindra says NO blends because their engines fuel delivery systems are designed around standards of desiel which contained the right balance of lubrication and combustable properties....

DD

 

[Poboy]

I would not run Bio diesel in my tractor . I have a Mahindra 6000 in the shop here now that a guy has been running a veggie oil mixture in and the injectors are bad and the pump my be bad also. The fuel tank and lines were full of gunk and the rubber fuel lines were very soft . So i know i would not put it in anything i own but hey that`s just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions

 

[dirtdabbler]

I would not run Bio diesel in my tractor . I have a Mahindra 6000 in the shop here now that a guy has been running a veggie oil mixture in and the injectors are bad and the pump my be bad also. The fuel tank and lines were full of gunk and the rubber fuel lines were very soft . So i know i would not put it in anything i own but hey that`s just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions

That's the smart thing to do to avoid later problems....

Most people that run biofuel only run 5% at the most, but would like to run more... Guy's next to me farm about 5000 acres and burn 5% BD in their big John Deer's...
I respect the efforts of many in operating more clean in respect for the envirement... Not just land concservation... If you have steel fuel lines then you have eliminated one pausable cause of a problem with your tractor... In many cases BIO Diesel is almost like an addative just in larger quantaties...

There are many things that determine the Life of an engine and injector pump. Clean fuel is a good start... Because BD acts like a system cleaner as well as being a fuel substiute... Often engines and systems that are old? Accumulate over the years a build up of things that become potential problems... Filter replacements are the first things done even at 5% BD in most AMerican made tractors.. Not sure there is such a thing any more as American made, but usually those are the folks who will know if you can or can't with an explination....

I think in most cases it is about the standards of fuels and the delivery systems... It's a gray area for most of us... I think the Engines themslves for the most part are pretty Resilient, but it's not only that... It's the byproducts of combustion and their build up that can determine the life of an engine... If the filters can't screen the dirty fuels and I don't just mean dirt either... Over years of buildup some things desolve into and become part of the fuel like BD and combustion creates residues in the piston, cylynders area... I think these are some of the concerns of Manufactures... Just what is in certain addatives and fuels and the long term affects.... It's true that in some engines that are old, they don't seem to mind the fuels, once you get past the initial cleaning that a system goes through when BD's are used in percentage mixtures... But I think too there should be genuine concerns when trying such things in the new systems. These may have fewer tolerances for the extremes that are beyond the original design which lead to greater od lesser failure beyond the norm.....

Here is what I think about all of it anyway... I think we should be very careful about what we do beyond the scope of the intended manufacture... I think it's ok to go by some old clunker and see what happens and I think people who do such things should also make others aware of what they have been doing, that may effect the normal percieved life of a tractor... JUst because the warrenty is out, doesn't make it right! Because people often sell their peviously owned equipment to others, who are left with pausible greater problems...