TYM T474 vs John Deere 4044M

[RSR]

Hozzie, yes there can be a multitude of reasons for price increases but that is not my argument. The jist of "0'% as a marketing scheme, has substantially added to the pricing of commodity.
It is the "big lie" about the whole thing that bothers me the most.
The gullible fall for this and run to buy stuff thinking they are not using their money and its not costing them anything to do so. That is total bull****e.

We have a commercial on the local channels right now for a local furniture store staying "when was the last time you went to your bank and was charged nothing for your loan"? "Well we are doing just that at Jordan's Furniture with 0% interest with as much furniture as you want to buy and you have 84 months to pay". I want to shoot the TV every time I hear this ad.

The "plus" for this is totally for the company but they make it look like the customer is the one really getting the advantage and make it seem like "win-win".
0% does several things advantageous for the company: 1, They get to be their own finance institution and able to glom the interest that would ordinarily go elsewhere.
2. they can dictate pricing anywhere they want to appear advantageous. Haggling is reduced to a breath in many instances. 3. They achieve total retail pricing without making it seem so bad for the consumer. 4. They purport how convenient it is for the customer not to have to shop for financing.
5. The scheme is quite ingenious as it increases customer traffic with the customer thinking it is not costing them anything and they don't have to use their own money.
Exactly like you thought.

It is pulling the wool over the publics eyes and I for one, abhor that kind of funny business. I didn't do such when selling Dodge trucks, I don't do it now with working for Mahindra and i will always tell people the truth and show them their best avenues to acquire what they want even to the extent of perhaps they should not be considering such a heavy purchase right now.

I have 3 daughters and when they went to buy cars for themselves, it was like the sharks were circling at the dealerships. That to me was abominable to treat people in such a way because one thinks to take advantage of them.

That is what 0% is for me, taking advantage of people and I will never buy furniture at Jordan's Furniture.

In some cases it's even worse. As chance would have it, I bought a new Toyota today. Current incentives for Toyota are a $500 rebate ONLY if you finance. See, so financing is a better deal!!! .

So I told the dealer I wanted to finance it, financed $1,500 of the total purchase price, paid cash for the rest, and will pay off the $1,500 loan when I get the first bill.

As was mentioned, and has been used here as an excuse for why financing is a good deal, most people just look at monthly cash flow, and think if their monthly payment is lower, then they are getting a better deal.

 

[RSR]

I would sure lean towards the green color.

Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.

 

[RoyJackson]

No you are not the only one thinking overkill.

His money, his choice

I know I went "overkill" for my last tractor (Deere 4520 with a Curtis Cab) and my current one (Deere 4052R Cab) as far as size, but since I never buy new, I got all the $50K-$55K tractor for $35K
Difference between men and boys is the price of their toys...

 

[RoyJackson]

Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.

Not unusual though...most components in automotive, aerospace and equipment assembly aren't manufactured by the OEM...all they do is assembly. Nothing new about this...been SOP for decades (at least).
The components are manufactured by the supply chain, which can be worldwide. I work for one of those suppliers now...only difference is the industry (I'm in aerospace)

 

[RoyJackson]

Are you really naïve enough to think a JD4044 is 100% American made? Or even 60%? Unlike JD's larger tractors, the JD4044 and their other compacts are no more "American made" than any other Korean, Japanese or Indian tractor. In fact some "foreign" tractors (Kubota and Branson for instance) have a considerably larger percentage of their final assembly done in the States. The American JD workers get no benefit at all from the sale of JD compact tractors. The only Americans who makes more money from a JD compact tractor sale are the overpaid JD executives and the company stock holders (a large percentage of whom are actually Chinese).

Boy, you really don't like Deere, do ya?

The compact Deeres (including my 4052) are assembled in Augusta, Georgia...so the assembly techs, ME's and others do get a paycheck and benefits

 

[ruffdog]

Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.

Yes, the video showed an assembly line....and assembly is what they do there. They will manufacture at a different location, just like any large manufacturer does. Do you really think Ford is machining engine blocks next to where they install seats in F150s?

 

[ruffdog]

If you want to see some "manufacturing", here is a video:

 

[ruffdog]

Are you really naïve enough to think a JD4044 is 100% American made? Or even 60%? Unlike JD's larger tractors, the JD4044 and their other compacts are no more "American made" than any other Korean, Japanese or Indian tractor. In fact some "foreign" tractors (Kubota and Branson for instance) have a considerably larger percentage of their final assembly done in the States. The American JD workers get no benefit at all from the sale of JD compact tractors. The only Americans who makes more money from a JD compact tractor sale are the overpaid JD executives and the company stock holders (a large percentage of whom are actually Chinese).

Do you have any videos of those Branson tractors being made.....and where?

 

[RoyJackson]

I'd go with a Deere. Quality never costs-it always pays. I think 50 horse and above are Deere diesels; below that Yanmar?? Get Deere's engine. My opinion.

All the 40xx series use Yanmar engines...the older 4x20 series used Deere Powertech engines.
Justification was it was easier to make the Yanmar engines Tier IV compliant.
I had a 4520, currently have a 4052R. Biggest difference I see is the Powertech engines had more torque.
That said, the Yanmar engines are really good, reliable engines. Deere's been using them since, at least, the 1990's

 

[RSR]

If you want to see some "manufacturing", here is a video:

Again, the only thing coming off the line are lawn mowers. It isn't disputed that John Deere manufactures those and large Ag equipment in the US.

The OP is looking at purchasing a CUT. The argument was made he should buy a 3-series or 4-series Deere, with the implication being it was manufactured in the US. That is not correct, and neither this, nor the previous video, prove JD CUTs are manufactured in the US.

As to an earlier comment, they do assembly in the US (my guess more than what many brands do). That's a fair argument. But, saying they are "built" in the USA is highly misleading, and technically incorrect.

 

[RSR]

Yes, the video showed an assembly line....and assembly is what they do there. They will manufacture at a different location, just like any large manufacturer does. Do you really think Ford is machining engine blocks next to where they install seats in F150s?

They do manufacture somewhere else. In a different country. That's the point.

 

[gstrom99]

Unfortunately, this video just seems to confirm what others have said. John Deere's are assembled in the US, but not manufactured in the US. At least the video certainly didn't show any manufacturing going on. It showed assembly. Even one of the "manufacturing" engineers explained that her job is to "design the process for how to out together the tractors."

It's an assembly line, not a manufacturing facility. A subtle but very important difference.

Living very near to Waterloo, IOWA, I would be happy to buy another JD, when/if the need arises. The closest dealer is 4 miles. The company has a very big footprint around here, with assembly, engine works and engineering (mostly BIG tractor stuff). I finally moved here (100%) last summer, but have yet to take any of the factory tours . I hear they are great.

Being an Illinois/American based company, means the company profits stay in this country (well mostly...).

 

[Torvy]

Hozzie, yes there can be a multitude of reasons for price increases but that is not my argument. The jist of "0'% as a marketing scheme,

Wow. So much incorrect information in one place....yes, companies use 0% offers to attract business. In that sense, you could call it a marketing scheme.

Thousands of people save millions of dollars getting zero percent. Those people tend to have excellent credit. The rub is not what you think. People with bad credit don't get the zero percent. Are the dealerships taking a loss? No! They are moving product and getting better rates on floor plan and more inventory. Profits come from ancillary sales like parts, accessories and labor.

Even if you took your assumption at face value, the price increases are across the board. That means your 'cash' price would be subsidizing my zero percent. Thanks, BTW.

I also found it rich that the only honest truck or car salesman in the country just happens to post here. My point is not to disparage you but to have you take a step back and consider you words more carefully. Assume positive intent in others. Not everyone has $50k to drop in cash on a tractor (or truck). Zero percent allows people to buy and dealerships to sell more tractors. Not everyone who has a zero percent deal is in League with evil intent on consuming the souls of their victims. Most are offering a service. Think of it like a modern computer printer. The prices are very low. Many are likely sold at a loss. They make money on the ink/toner.

Dealers want your business. The odds are better than 50% that people who get a tractor from that dealer will buy more things from the same dealer.

I spent most of my adult life in the lending business. 4-5 years of it was small business lending, including AG loans. Lots of people get zero percent. The government makes banks balance risk and zero % helps them get financially secure people to finance rather than pay cash. They may not make money directly on that loan, but that loan will allow the bank to make a higher risk loan to another customer at a higher rate. Oddly enough, the government also forces banks to make those riskier loans. It is not a scam, it is risk mitigation and benefits both the lenders and the borrowers... and the dealers.

Seriously, you sound very angry. Life is too short to get upset about misinformation. Take a walk, hug your kids, do whatever helps you relax.

Peace -T

 

[RoyJackson]

Again, the only thing coming off the line are lawn mowers. It isn't disputed that John Deere manufactures those and large Ag equipment in the US.

The OP is looking at purchasing a CUT. The argument was made he should buy a 3-series or 4-series Deere, with the implication being it was manufactured in the US. That is not correct, and neither this, nor the previous video, prove JD CUTs are manufactured in the US.

As to an earlier comment, they do assembly in the US (my guess more than what many brands do). That's a fair argument. But, saying they are "built" in the USA is highly misleading, and technically incorrect.

You could make the same comment about all the automotive manufacturers, aerospace manufacturers and others
Deere CUTs are, in fact, built in the US...just as much as any manufacturer
It seems like some of you have a problem with John Deere...why?

 

[Torvy]

You could make the same comment about all the automotive manufacturers, aerospace manufacturers and others
Deere CUTs are, in fact, built in the US...just as much as any manufacturer
It seems like some of you have a problem with John Deere...why?

I think it is the JD lie that bugs some of us. They leverage patriotism with the false narrative that you are somehow a better American if you overpay for green paint.

 

[airbiscuit]

Iv'e owned Shibaura, John Deere, New Holland and Kubota - liked em all. I'd like to own a Kioti and a Yanmar with that whizzy

I-HMT (Integrated Hydro Mechanical Transmission).​

 

[RoyJackson]

I think it is the JD lie that bugs some of us. They leverage patriotism with the false narrative that you are somehow a better American if you overpay for green paint.

I've read number of Deere ads...never saw any of that nonsense. Care to post something to substantiate?
Deere is a multi-national company...you can see Deere tractors world-wide, with the possible exceptions of China, Russia and some smaller countries.
Deere sells a lot in Europe, India and other countries. I'm sure some of the assembly is also done in other countries...but the CUTs sold here are assembled here.
Now, I'd written I work for an aerospace supplier...the company is British owned and pretty much ran by the Swedish branch of the company.
We make components that go into jet engines...mostly US military, as well as commercial. So, when a company like GE Aviation builds an engine for the Air Force, Navair or the companies that actually "build" the aircraft, is it US manufacture or?
BTW, I do not work for GE Aviation, we just supply to them

 

[RSR]

You could make the same comment about all the automotive manufacturers, aerospace manufacturers and others
Deere CUTs are, in fact, built in the US...just as much as any manufacturer
It seems like some of you have a problem with John Deere...why?

See Torvy's comment. He hit the nail on the head.

I have no problem with John Deere. I actually agree completely with what you said, "built in the US ... just as much as any other manufacturer."

My problem, is when individuals falsely claim that John Deere builds MORE of their CUTs in the US than other manufacturers, which is an often parroted claim that is continually misstated as fact on this forum.

 

[RoyJackson]

My problem, is when individuals falsely claim that John Deere builds MORE of their CUTs in the US than other manufacturers, which is an often parroted claim that is continually misstated as fact on this forum.

Can't say I've ever seen that...

I'm sure most imported tractors are "knocked down" for ease of shipment...knocked down meaning some components such as wheels/tires are not mounted...I reckon other components too, but not certain about that.
So, Deere assembles CUTs from components (such as engines from Yanmar, axles from who knows where, etc. IIRC, the plate on the tractor states something like "Assembled in Augusta Georgia"
Assembled may mean more then just remounting the wheels and tires

 

[rScotty]

Iv'e owned Shibaura, John Deere, New Holland and Kubota - liked em all. I'd like to own a Kioti and a Yanmar with that whizzy

I-HMT (Integrated Hydro Mechanical Transmission).​

I hear you! Sure am glad not to have one of those new I-HMT transmissions in our tractor.

If an I-HM was that near to hand.....just sitting out there in the yard looking all mechanically mysterious....
Well, it would be hard to resist taking it apart just out of curiosity...just got to have a peek inside..... And right now I've got enough projects. Actually, more than enough...

BTW, what's a VAG?
rScotty