Trailer Weight Distribution

[LittleBill21]

One other factor not mentioned is how much up force on the tongue while loading the tractor. Plenty of videos out there where there is enough up force to allow a truck to start rolling down the hill as an item is loaded.

Doug in SW IA

you mean sliding. rear tires need to come off the ground for a RWD to start rolling, and its weight not force.

 

[BlueKnife]

at the end of the day a light tongue is dangerous it induces sway, I've personally seen it when a load has shifted. i believe the towing books say 10% or more of the total weight.

tongue down pretty much forces a heaver tongue without scales etc. Again this was taught to everyone i know may even be in some towing books, its common knowledge here.

You can do what you want.

No one is disagreeing about the need for tongue weight. @Too many Kubotas is just saying that the nose being lower doesn't automatically mean that there is sufficient or any tongue weight. It might mean that, but it also might just simply mean that the hitch is low.

 

[4570Man]

I would go with the first picture where it’s backed on because the tractor is all the way on the trailer that way. You’ll probably end up hitting the bucket in a sharp turn loaded the other 2 ways.

 

[Grumpycat]

whats a new one? that the trailer nose should be slightly down? thats been a known thing for as long as i have been towing, you always want to be tongue heavy vs tail heavy.

There are a lot of "known things" which are dead wrong.

Yes, negative load (lift) on the ball is a Very Bad Thing. But for the trailer to be sloped up does not indicate a tail heavy trailer. And does not induce sway.

If the hitch is high with proper 5% to 8% on the tongue then one needs a hitch which drops the ball lower.

 

[Grumpycat]

tongue down pretty much forces a heaver tongue without scales etc. Again this was taught to everyone i know may even be in some towing books, its common knowledge here.

You can do what you want.

As I said previously, "There are many 'known things' which are dead wrong."

A drop hitch drawbar will lower the tongue and make almost no difference in the weight on the tongue. Proving your statement to be wrong.

 

[Grumpycat]

View attachment 1511140


I have never towed this tractor on this trailer.

I measured from ground level to the top of the rear wheel well and got 39" with the unloaded trailer attached.
With the tractor backed onto on the trailer the measurement is 38".

What I suggest you do is unhitch the trailer. Measure the truck unloaded no trailer. Then stand on the bumper and measure again. Lets say you weigh 200# and the bumper lowered 1". Now we have a good ballpark as to how much the hitch is carrying per inch the bumper drops. Ain't perfect "but that's life."

Also might require a bit of math. Sorry for using the 4 letter word, m a t h.

You have a good idea of how much the tractor weighs so look to put a bit over 5% and no more than 10% of it's weight on the truck. The trailer is already balanced that way unloaded so you don't add the trailer weight.

 

[ning]

jfc f'n communication isn't a strong point in this thread

consider

trailer weighted superbly for 10-15% tongue weight

nobody here will argue that this is a badly weighted trailer

now, adjust height +/- with a drop hitch

the same weight trailer can point down in front with more drop, or down in back with less drop (possibly a rise hitch)

[REDACTED] above claimed that the trailer will wag around if the front is higher
but he clearly is only considering the height of the trailer tongue based on weight
but the other guy correctly understands that you can have the front up or down with the same weight arrangement on the trailer (he just may have done this before!)

so to ask again

does having the trailer ride flat, pitched up, or down, have any effect on handling?

My partial answer:

With 2+ axles the trailer needs to ride level all the time preferably, and definitely with the heavy load so that the axles have room for travel and the suspension can do its thing and you have as equal of wear on the axles as possible.

For one axle this isn't as big of a deal but the geometry still states that not-level is a liability for suspension travel as the movement should be up-down with respect to the suspension and if there's a tilt, the axle clamped to the springs will be forced to move at an angle (perpendicular to the trailer which is tilted but the suspension is configured for the trailer to my parallel to the road).

Since you're not likely to adjust the trailer tongue height when you load the trailer, you should have the hitch set up for your likely tow geometry so that the trailer is best set up (level) when loaded.

 

[Runner]

PJ manual says this:

The height of the ball receiver on the trailer must be adjusted so that the trailer, when loaded to rated capacity, is level while connected to the tow vehicle. A level trailer allows equal weight distribution on the axles.

What sounds reasonable to me is that (separate from the issue of maintaining equal load distribution to multiple axles) the reason for keeping the tongue level is to prevent uplift on the rear axle of the tow vehicle when stopping.

When you are stopping, the front of the tow vehicle is going down anyway, then couple that with an upward force component from the trailer tongue pointing at the sky and pushing up on the rear axle, and you are reducing stopping power of the rear wheels. Granted, this happens anyway, cannot really be avoided, but upward-sloping trailer tongue makes it worse.

Also, towing with the tongue pointing at the sky makes you look like a newbie

 

[BlueKnife]

Also, towing with the tongue pointing at the sky makes you look like a newbie

True, although I think I've seen more newbies with the tongue way too low (usually due to way too much tongue weight) than too high. Here's a picture of one I saw in the Home Depot parking lot. He's definitely got the tongue low, that's for sure.

 

[BlueKnife]

It's worth noting that the reason for keeping the trailer level is to evenly distribute the weight on multiple axles. It doesn't really matter that much on a single axle trailer, other than for convenience of loading certain items.

 

[LittleBill21]

As I said previously, "There are many 'known things' which are dead wrong."

A drop hitch drawbar will lower the tongue and make almost no difference in the weight on the tongue. Proving your statement to be wrong.

Some of you guys are REALLY taking this too far.

My comment which is now being taken slightly out of context is in relation to the video above.

My statement was basic, people are now making assumptions. Again this is common knowledge here, every person I know who is setting up for the above load does this. it almost never had to be explained.

Based on a vehicle with a single axle trailer.

Not using scales or 200 dollar adjustable hitches.

You started out with a level trailer or slight high trailer (utility), you put the load on the trailer until the trailer and vehicle drop to level or slightly below level. This simply insures there is enough tongue weight.

THATS it. 30 seconds to setup load.

of course you can setup in a way where there is 8000 pounds behind the fulcrum point.

of course tongue weight doesn't change by changing height of the tongue.

of course scales are the proper way to get 10-15%

of course you should be using sway and WD control.

I guess i should have mentioned your moving the tongue height by shifting the load, not by moving the drawbar, I thought that was obvious. Guess I was wrong.

For those of you questioning my experience. I have towed from Main to California, across every major mountain pass going through these places, and have towed roughly 60 different trailers with around 200,000 miles of towing in average basic vehicles and just on the ball no distro or sway control. I also have a CDL.

I'm out at this point, please feel free to rip this post apart as well.

 

[Grumpycat]

You started out with a level trailer or slight high trailer (utility), you put the load on the trailer until the trailer and vehicle drop to level or slightly below level. This simply insures there is enough tongue weight.

He didn't start with a "level trailer". That was not a given.

 

[LittleBill21]

He didn't start with a "level trailer". That was not a given.

I never said he did. Nor do we have idea what level his trailer is period. He said it dropped an inch. That's it. my comments simply indicated what it should roughly look like

 

[Rockbadchild]

1 or 2 looks good to me. I go by ''feel'' when I drive my tractor to a trailer (or any heavy object for that matter) I look at the rear end of my truck, when the tractor is at the rear end of the trailer the truck suspension is fully extended, as I move forward you can see when the truck get to the neutral position or you can tell that the tractor is balance on the trailer, then I keep moving forward to guesstimate to have 10% of the weight pass the balance point, essentially you want 60% of the weight in the front and 40% in the back to have sufficient tongue weight, you will see the truck starting to squat, I want to be around there some truck squats more then other I have a dodge/ram so I need keep creeping forward as it start squats further then other trucks to be where I am comfortable. I personally ratter a bit too much tongue weight then not enough.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

It's worth noting that the reason for keeping the trailer level is to evenly distribute the weight on multiple axles.

While it seems like we're finally all more or less on the same page now, I don't fully agree with the above.

Most tandem axle trailers have a balance beam in the center, so the weight is automatically evenly distributed between the two. As long as the trailer is reasonably level it should all function fine.

There's even a slight advantage to having the nose up a little bit if the axles have some camber built in. That way the tires get a tiny bit of toe-in which can help the bearings and spindles live much longer. I've never had any issues with 5,200-lb and up axles, but a fair share with 3,500-lb. axles.

As mentioned earlier, with torsion axles the trailer really should be as level as possible or the load won't be evenly applied to them. And with three or more axles things like suspension travel (mentioned above) start playing a bigger role. On the other hand, by then the trailer is generally long enough that the tongue can be inches up or down without having much effect on how level the trailer is.

 

[BlueKnife]

Most tandem axle trailers have a balance beam in the center, so the weight is automatically evenly distributed between the two. As long as the trailer is reasonably level it should all function fine.

That's true, "as long as the trailer is reasonably level" being the key phrase.

 

[ning]

True, although I think I've seen more newbies with the tongue way too low (usually due to way too much tongue weight) than too high. Here's a picture of one I saw in the Home Depot parking lot. He's definitely got the tongue low, that's for sure. View attachment 1511291

light 1/2 ton trucks, probably start with a level trailer unloaded, then loaded it up crushing the truck's rear suspension dropping the ball almost to the ground...

 

[BlueKnife]

light 1/2 ton trucks, probably start with a level trailer unloaded, then loaded it up crushing the truck's rear suspension dropping the ball almost to the ground...

In that particular case, it was a 1/2 ton pickup, towing a 14-16000 lb trailer with those Perma Columns (the concrete posts you see in the picture) loaded all the way to the front. No idea why he didn't at least put them further back. Still would have been way overloaded, but at least it would have been a little easier on his suspension.

 

[RjCorazza]

I have always tried to have the trailer somewhat level when loaded. I think my current hitch is a 4" drop, but most recent trailer has an adjustable coupler.
For loads I will be frequently hauling I weigh the tongue. One-off loads I usually just eyeball.

 

[Too many Kubotas]

light 1/2 ton trucks, probably start with a level trailer unloaded, then loaded it up crushing the truck's rear suspension dropping the ball almost to the ground...

Yep, and as RjCorazza pointed out above, it's better to pick the correct ballmount (or adjust the trailer's coupler) to be level when loaded.

If nothing else it'll help avoid that overloaded look when the trailer is sloping forward.