tracked vehicle differential questions

[davedj1]

OK, I'm having thoughts about building a tracked vehicle. It will be used primarily on the snow to pull a grooming drag. I'm wondering if a typical car/truck rear differential would be ok to use? I am thinking of a ford explorer rear axle that has disk brakes and maybe adding a second caliper to each side to have more stopping power. Then use two large master cylinders, one for each side.

My question is, will the open diff. work the way I picture it?
Apply brakes on which ever side you want to go in? Thereby slowing down that side and putting the power to the opposite side.

I don't see the need for a tank like diff as I won't need to have one track go backwards, the turning radius doesn't have to be that tight.
Any input is greatly appreciated as always,
dave

Just for some added reading, I will be using a stock vehicle (small rear wheel drive) Like a Samuri/tracker or something. I will remove the front steering and all components, mount the rear axle solid to the frame. Then building my own undercarriage and tracks.
So the tracks will be driven from the rear.

 

[oldnslo]

Some possible issues I can think of are:

1) Using a standard differential when trying to stop one wheel the other has to spin twice as fast. probably not ideal for turning.

2) If you get one track on ice and the other on good footing the one on ice will want to spin while the other stops just like a car would. May not be an issue with your braking system.

3) Running on side hills you will be constantly braking to go straight.

I could be 100% wrong but I don't think track type dozers operate that way.

 

[slowzuki]

There are alot of people who just build track bogies (like the atv systems) to mount on sidekicks or samurais using the stock component and normal snowmobile tracks. They work great for grooming as the drive sprocket gears them down by about 50%.

http://www.fritzrips.com/nordic/2011/10/29/samurai-trail-groomer/ for example.

 

[mwb]

I agree that there are off-the-shelf track systems that would be much easier to use than building your own.

If you really want to brew your own what about making a half-track? Gives you the benefit of a track vehicle but you still have steering. To supplement steering in really bad situations you could isolate the rear brakes. This would be a lot easier to build (compared to a full track).

Have you tried a 4x4 with four wheel chains? You might be very surprised at the amount of traction. Wheel ruts might not be the best for your applications but maybe adding floater tires with chains will make a very simple solution.

 

[Mace Canute]

There are alot of people who just build track bogies (like the atv systems) to mount on sidekicks or samurais using the stock component and normal snowmobile tracks. They work great for grooming as the drive sprocket gears them down by about 50%.

Samurai Trail Groomer | Utah Nordic Skiing for example.

I think this is the way to go also. Unless you are dead set on making your own tracked vehicle, I suspect it would end up being cheaper in the long run and much less trouble too. It also has the advantage of being transferable to different vehicles, within reason of course. Instead of using an older vehicle (I'm guessing you would want to because of cost) with all the problems that can be associated with it, you can use a brand new one that has all the creature comforts you could want and still be able to use it in summer as a regular vehicle.

 

[forgeblast]

I thought I saw on cl that there was a half track kit for a ford 9n.
It looked like there was just a free spinning wheel infront of the back wheels that was used to tension the tracks.

 

[turnkey4099]

Some possible issues I can think of are:

1) Using a standard differential when trying to stop one wheel the other has to spin twice as fast. probably not ideal for turning.

2) If you get one track on ice and the other on good footing the one on ice will want to spin while the other stops just like a car would. May not be an issue with your braking system.

3) Running on side hills you will be constantly braking to go straight.

I could be 100% wrong but I don't think track type dozers operate that way.

IIANM the Cletrac did operate that way. Dunno if it would speed theonetrack up orif it disconnected that side. It did steer by braking rather then declutching and then braking if needed. Only memories from out neighbor who had one on the farm back in the 40s. He wasn't happy with it.

Harry K

 

[davedj1]

Well thank you all for the replies. I don't have the money to buy a track system. The vehicle I have in mind is a 96 Suzuki Sidekick, plenty of comforts for some late night grooming of the snowmobile trails. Pretty flat in my area. I don't think I would like a half track design, won't turn tight enough, not that I need to turn on a dime. There are some tight corners however.

The "kick" has an auto trans. 4x4 so it has low range.
Maybe I'll look into making a track system, one for each wheel? Anyone got any in-depth info on them?
thanks,
dave

 

[Taylortractornut]

Lots of dozers over the years used Differential steering. Case, MFand Cletracs smaller dozers used a differential to steer with. When you brake one side the other will increase the speed, that the braked side lost.

Also Some WW2 gun carriers used a truck rearend for te differential. I think Bombardier used car and truck axles to.

 

[RPW]

If you look at how a differential works usually the drive shaft is directly connected to one side of the axle through the ring and pinion gear then through a series of gears to the other side of the axle. You could apply the brakes to one side and it would work but would be ineffective on the other side. If you setup a system similiar to a skidsteer with a hydraulic pump, valves and motors........

Good luck.

 

[Mace Canute]

If you look at how a differential works usually the drive shaft is directly connected to one side of the axle through the ring and pinion gear then through a series of gears to the other side of the axle. You could apply the brakes to one side and it would work but would be ineffective on the other side. If you setup a system similiar to a skidsteer with a hydraulic pump, valves and motors........

Good luck.

Nope. The ring or crown gear is bolted solidly to the case/center section and the two side gears that the axles are driven by are in turn driven by smaller pinion gears that are driven by a pin that passes through them and is firm to the case.

 

[turnkey4099]

If you look at how a differential works usually the drive shaft is directly connected to one side of the axle through the ring and pinion gear then through a series of gears to the other side of the axle. You could apply the brakes to one side and it would work but would be ineffective on the other side. If you setup a system similiar to a skidsteer with a hydraulic pump, valves and motors........

Good luck.

Errm...No. Both sides are driven through the spider gears. There is no direct connection to either side with the drive shaft.

Harry K

 

[davedj1]

I know how a differential works, I just don't know if it will work in the application I want.
Keep the info coming!
:thumbsup:

 

[turnkey4099]

I know how a differential works, I just don't know if it will work in the application I want.
Keep the info coming!
:thumbsup:

The only problem I (or others) see is the speeding up of one track while turning. I don't see it being all that much of one if any.

The major problem will be designing your track bogies/idlers, the track, and all the other stuff that goes with that type drive. I don't see it being done on a budget.

Harry K

 

[davedj1]

I have an outlet for the track belting so that shouldn't cost too much.
Idlers I'm thinking torsion axle stubs (not cheap i Know) and using tires for the wheels. Drive sprockets I'm not sure yet, maybe UHMW or a combination of that and steel. Cleats or growsers I will build out of steel.
It may be too ambitious of a project but I think it would be fun not only to build but to drive as well.
I have been looking into possibly building individual tracks using snowmobile tracks. I't hard to find solid info on the DIY ones out there.
dave

 

[pilot-werx]

The guys down the road from me have it mastered. I believe they build the worlds fastest tracked vehicle... Howe &Howe Technology

 

[brokenot]

There are plenty of YouTube clips with tracked vehicles built around a car or light truck axle for the drive. This is one of my favorites...he has a few videos posted:

Luisua tela-ajoneuvolla - YouTube

Look at the right side for similar videos posted by others, or search by using the keyword "bandvagn".

Enjoy. (Way better than what's typically on TV.)

 

[RPW]

OK, did a relook at how differentials work and stand corrected. The ones I looked at appeared to have one axle directly attached to the input shaft.

 

[jimgerken]

If I were starting such a vehicle, I would design it articulated 4WD. If for snow only, then go ahead and run solid axles (no differential action at all).

 

[nimblemotors]

no experience here, but I've seem tracks for skid steers that just go around the existing wheels. Could you do the same for the sammy? Obviously you'd need to fix the front wheels so they don't turn and rig the brakes independently for the skid steering. I don't know if the 4wd would work this way, if they might rotate different speeds and thus you would need 2wd only.

I've read about a track made from a big tractor tire with the sidewalls cutaway, this could be real cheap if you can find old tires free.

OK, I'm having thoughts about building a tracked vehicle. It will be used primarily on the snow to pull a grooming drag. I'm wondering if a typical car/truck rear differential would be ok to use? I am thinking of a ford explorer rear axle that has disk brakes and maybe adding a second caliper to each side to have more stopping power. Then use two large master cylinders, one for each side.

My question is, will the open diff. work the way I picture it?
Apply brakes on which ever side you want to go in? Thereby slowing down that side and putting the power to the opposite side.

I don't see the need for a tank like diff as I won't need to have one track go backwards, the turning radius doesn't have to be that tight.
Any input is greatly appreciated as always,
dave

Just for some added reading, I will be using a stock vehicle (small rear wheel drive) Like a Samuri/tracker or something. I will remove the front steering and all components, mount the rear axle solid to the frame. Then building my own undercarriage and tracks.
So the tracks will be driven from the rear.