Trac-hoe control ?

[Richard]

Brother in law informed me he recently acquired a trac-hoe. He is experienced as a backhoe/loader operator. He called me last night to confirm how the two controls operated on my backhoe.

Left stick forward/back = boom lower/raise
Left stick right/left = boom rotate right/left

Right stick forward/back = dipperstick crowd/uncrowd
Right stick right/left = bucket uncurl/curl

I'm not really sure I have the right names for the right parts but I think I have butchered it accurately enough to get the question across.

Seems his left stick when pushed right/left, instead of rotating hoe right/left, operates boom up/down or something he is otherwise unaccustomed to.

Upshot, I suggested to him that (given I had NO clue) maybe they had been tinkered with and plumbed back wrong.

So the question is, do the sticks operate the same "commands" on a track-hoe as they do on a "regular" hoe? Did someone maybe replumb things backward, or do they just work differently?

Thanks
Richard

 

[DarinRay]

Richard,

You really already answered your question with the plumbed back wrong. Because actually you can run it anyway you want if you just reverse or redirect the hoe's functions. I have operated track-hoes (excavators) crawler hoes, backhoe, & some other hoes /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif and except for the last they all operated the same. Oh boy I hope nobody jumps on me for that, just playing, comment. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Darin

 

[Richard]

Thank you Darin. As I was talking with him, I was sort of thinking, "Just change it!!!" /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

Richard

 

[dmccarty]

Richard,

I was reading up on track hoes a few months ago since I'm thinking about renting one some day and I was very curious on how the controls operated.

Some of the different brands and models have a switch that allows the operator to select HOW the controls work. The operator could select the controls to work like a JD product or some other manufactuers.

There might be a swtich he can through to change things over.

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

There are actually 3 different patterns that I have seen. Almost all excavators use "Cat Controls" that Caterpillar uses, then there is what we use on our Kubota, JD etc then one other.

Yes some newer machines are electronically switchable, but you can't just change the hoses and have it all work.

I had that brainy idea so I could "practice" before renting an excavator. Your valve block is also arranged differently.

For instance when you lift with the boom, you have full flow, when you drop the boom on your backhoe it is restricted, otherwise (as I found out) when you lower the boom it falls, LIKE A ROCK.

If I was going to be permanently going from one to the other I'd actually switch the valves around so both are the same so you can act by reflex without thinking.

Once in a while it doesn't matter, after an hour or so I was getting to the point that I didn't look like Joe Goofball on the excavator, but I was just in clear land digging stumps. Don't think I'd want to be on one digging next to a house. I've already dented a few of my downspouts being careful with my Kubota, can't imagine what would happen if I swung the excavator into the house /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif.

To me the typical compact setup is the most straightforward and sensible pattern, pull the lever towards you, boom comes towards you, swing the lever left, boom moves left, etc.

When I got on the excavator, it was the first day of school again, I actually said the movements out loud that you need to do to dig for awhile. Kind of like learning to walk again.

Don't ask me to put pipe in a trench with workers below me, but hey, open field stump digging I can handle.

del

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Almost forgot, the left right power is different as well compared to pushing and pulling with the boom. Especially with an excavator, I was surprised at how little force a could exert sideways before the hydraulics would stall, most likely a safety mechanism to keep the "house" from being torn off of the carriage./w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

I had trouble even doing light grading of a ditch with one, then I saw a real operator use one, he was always pulling bucket towards him while going sideways a little at the same time. Perfect job, couldn't have done better if I'd been able to use my tractor and rake.

del

 

[DarinRay]

Del,

Not sure on this one. I've ran the Komatsu 220LC, Kubota 191, Cat backhoe, JCB backhoe, magnatrac, and probably few more but can't remember. So these must all have the same controls that I'm use to. Which equipment has the different controls?? Is it JD controls or Cat controls or are there more options available (different functions with levers)?? Thanks in advance for all the info.

Darin

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Darin,

I believe Deere and Case controls are the same, Cat are different. Not sure about Komatsu or other brands. By the way, have you ever come across a machine that looks like a dozer but has a backhoe on the back. I recall seeing one of these years ago but can't remember the make.

Russ

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Rus, that's a backhoe attachment, some of the small dozers and track loaders, JD and Case like the 350 size had those as options, I tried to find a decent one in the early 80s and never could, seems like a nice idea for the one machine has to do it all people, but the hoe makes the dozer more tippy, and a typical backhoe is not as versatile as a true track-hoe. They still seem like a neat machine though.

del

 

[Anonymous Poster]

I figure after I go completely nuts trying to successfully use more then one lever pattern I want to rent one of those small excavators that also has the articulating boom so I can speed up journey to the funny farm. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

del

 

[DarinRay]

Thanks guys,

I never actually (duh) thought that there was a difference in the control except for the number of levers or something like that. Wow, will have to keep that in mind if I ever buy one or maybe even rent one because like Del said it wouldn't be bad clearing land but if you wanted to do something with precision being use to something will make my life alot easier./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Yeah I actually just a couple months ago saw a JD450 with loader and backhoe but the 4-1 bucket was pretty beat up so I thought maybe it's life was hard so declined. I've been told that with the backhoe on the back you go through your undercarriage alot more or at least the rear becuase of the added weight.

Sure is fun learning more about things that you like. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Darin

 

[DarinRay]

That would probably send me there too Del. I can't even run the foot controls and controls at the same time very well and then throw in somemore controls for articulating boom and BINGO Funny Farm it is. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif. Put a hydraulic thumb it and it would be even quicker. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Darin

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Actually the thumb controls can be easy if you use an electric valve, you just have buttons in the lever to push, some controls also work so that you push the button and that changes the lever's function while the button is held down.

You might think that would be complicated I guess you just get used to it, I saw a program last night on the cranes that are used to offload ships, I think it was those humongous ones inLong Beach CA, the guys like 200 feet up looking down 40 feet into a hole in the ship and he goes after a container, yanks it out, takes it over and sits it ever so gently on to a trailer chassis. And the guy does it all day long. I'll try to remember that next time I feel frustrated at my inability to position a rock or log for some project!

del

 

[Jag]

Rus, Del, my JD 450C manual has a section on a backhoe... So it should have been an optition on this size dozer up to the mid-80's.... I even know where such an animal is parked up the road about 25 miles or so....

 

[MDNick]

My brother saw one for sale outside Johnstown Ohio. Real nice backhoe on a JD 450. 1974. In good shape, original pretty much everything, including the paint. Undercarriage was in real good shape. My brother wanted to buy it and was hoping some old lady was recently widowed, etc. Not to be, owner was alive and well, asking $12,500. More than he wanted to spend. Especially since he lives IN Columbus. Though my dad would have appreciated it.

Farmer kid usetabe, Farmer Wannabe

 

[MarkV]

We had a real difficult (can you say expensive) septic system put in that required track equipment. (very steep, rocky) Besides a dozer and small excavator they used a JD 450 with backhoe and 4 in 1 bucket. I thought it was a great machine if you could only have one. Often thought that if I had a lot of clearing to do it would be a good do it all combo to have.

MarkV

 

[bcarter]

CAT controls are the SAE standard excavator control pattern - stick and swing in the left hand, boom and bucket in the right hand. Most backhoes are plumbed with a "John Deere" control pattern - boom and swing in the left hand, stick and bucket in the right. There are several other control patterns, but these two are the most common.

I learned to operate on a Cat excavator with the SAE control pattern, so I got my backhoe controls swapped to match. The dealer swapped the hoses and the relief valves between the boom and stick functions. It works fine except that I do get the "boom drop" that Del describes, and I don't get the float function for the boom. I too would recommend actually restacking the spools to avoid both of these...and when I get some time I will do this on mine.

My $0.02.



Bill