Too much ballast?

[Racer71]

Can you have too much rear ballast?

I am doing some heavy digging with the FEL and the back end is light with filled tires and the box blade attached. So I am thinking about building a concrete ballast block. Therefore, I can make it as big as I want.

My current design is 1,300 pounds centered 8 inches behind the lift point. This can easily be changed.

My L3400 is rated at 2,000 pounds at the lift point and 1,400 pounds at 24 inches. Both the tractor manual and loader manual state that the amount of ballast should be matched to the need. That is a big help

 

[Racer71]

Here is the design I'm working with.

 

[bjcsc]

Considering your plan, I would take my design a step further and make your ballast modular, in say 3rds. That way, you can use it in varying degrees...

 

[Mike058]

I don't know if that's too much weight, but if it isn't, what about using a simpler box shape. 22 wide 26 tall 27 deep would get you about 1300 pounds and the form would be simpler to make. I'd think something more box shaped would be less likely to whack something.

 

[Racer71]

Mike058,

You do present some good food for thought.

The 22 wide doesn't fit as far forward between the lift arms so the center of gravity is moving aft. The 27 inches would put the center of gravity at aroung 13 inches which is still within reason. The load would also stick out another 12 inches or so to the rear. The 26 wide starts to bind with the top link when the load is raised.

The "T" shape is designed to fit behind the tires for clearance when backing.

 

[jimmysisson]

Seems like a simpler shape would be less likely to snag on brush, etc. I'd also figure out some way to hang this without making the lift arms bear it, cut down on strain on the lift hydraulics. "Match the need" cuts down on complaints they didn't tell you the right thing for just your requirements. Every ground and operation is a little different. You won't regret the weight, makes an amazing difference in stability and digging power.
Jim

 

[Mike058]

Mike058,

You do present some good food for thought.

The 22 wide doesn't fit as far forward between the lift arms so the center of gravity is moving aft. The 27 inches would put the center of gravity at aroung 13 inches which is still within reason. The load would also stick out another 12 inches or so to the rear. The 26 wide starts to bind with the top link when the load is raised.

The "T" shape is designed to fit behind the tires for clearance when backing.

Doing a little research shows that there's only 18 inches between the toplink pin and the lifting pins, so a block 26" tall would be really tough to squeeze in there Limiting it to 17" tall leaves you with a chunk of concrete 42" long, and not exactly what I'd want to see hanging off any respectable tractor. That's assuming it could be lifted with the hydraulics seeing as where that would put the center of gravity. No, your original design is looking better all the time. Do you think you'll need any rebar across the back to hold up the "ears"?

 

[ronjhall]

Can you have too much rear ballast?

I am doing some heavy digging with the FEL and the back end is light with filled tires and the box blade attached. So I am thinking about building a concrete ballast block. Therefore, I can make it as big as I want.

My current design is 1,300 pounds centered 8 inches behind the lift point. This can easily be changed.

My L3400 is rated at 2,000 pounds at the lift point and 1,400 pounds at 24 inches. Both the tractor manual and loader manual state that the amount of ballast should be matched to the need. That is a big help

I do not think you need 1300 lbs. You box blade probably weighs less than 500 lbs. Try adding some weight to the box blade. With loaded tires it will not take much.
Changing the dimensions of your ballast some will help with counterbalance.
Looks like the pins are set too far in. Move pins to 3" in. This will move the weight further back and give you more counterbalance from the weight of your ballast. Standard width of a Cat 1 attachment is 26" why not make yours closer to that dimension?

 

[Steve_Miller]

I couldn't load your picture for some reason, but here is what I came up with for rear weight. It's only about 400lbs but it is easily picked up or dropped off. Concrete is about 150lbs per cubic foot. I just cast a piece of channel in the form when i poured it with enough gap to mimic the lip on a fork. For what its worth it may or may not help in your quest.

Steve

 

[MarkV]

I don’t think you are planning on too much weight. Many of us with backhoes have that much hanging off the back of the tractor. I would guess your design will work just fine yet it is much more common to stick a draw bar through a plastic garbage can and fill it with concrete.

Do a search for ballast and see some of the ideas others have come up with. Several people have incorporated tool holders, receiver hitches, chain holders and other conveniences into their home built ballast boxes.

MarkV

 

[m7040]

see pic of my ballast box weighs 2000 lbs plus

 

[Lil43]

Seems like a simpler shape would be less likely to snag on brush, etc. I'd also figure out some way to hang this without making the lift arms bear it, cut down on strain on the lift hydraulics. "Match the need" cuts down on complaints they didn't tell you the right thing for just your requirements. Every ground and operation is a little different. You won't regret the weight, makes an amazing difference in stability and digging power.
Jim

I agree,I was never crazy about the idea of leaving excessive amounts of wieght on lift arms via hydraulics for long periods of time.Heres a pic of my 800lbs attached to the pivot points for 3ph arms (arms removed).The chains are just a safety measure ,not actually holding wieght.

 

[john_bud]

I don't know how handy you are, but I was wondering if you could attach sliders to the FEL frame, so that when you attach the counterweight, you lift it with the 3pt, then slide out the sliders under it to support the weight on the frame and not the hydraulics.

May be overkill with the sliders, depends on how long you intend to keep the weight on. You will be much happier with the performance with the weight.

jb

 

[Erik_in_Hoyt]

Stan,
I filled 6 square kitty litter buckets with concrete and made a bracket to hold them on top of my box blade. I figure they weigh about 80 or 90 pounds each, so this gives me around 800 or so pounds of ballast and I can take 2, 4, or all 6 of them off any time I don't want the extra weight. With my cheap easy hitch, this sets the load far enough back that it's a similar amount of counter-weight/leverage as a heavier weight closer to the tractor.
It also breaks the load down so if i get into a bind, I can pull them off and carry them away by hand, then moose the box blade to where I need it.

 

[keeney]

I am not sure how much your machine weighs or what the loader capacity is, but I built about a 900 lb block for my 4100 + 410 loader which is a fairly small machine.

Its a bit too heavy. Not because I think it is damaging anything, or making the tractor too back-heavy, but because it makes the whole combo a bit too heavy, period. One of the things I often do is use my tractor on the beach to groom the sand and move the dock equipment. The extra weight makes the machine get that much more bogged down in the sand.

In fact, in some up-hill situations, with a full bucket, or trying to dig or drag something backwards uphill, the machine runs out of torque before it runs out of traction and is unable to move unless I dump some of the load.

Now, instead of putting my 900 lb ballast block on with the FEL to work in the sand, I put on a landscape rake (also useful in the sand) which weighs in at maybe 300 lbs. Its a little light when I try and lift a full bucket of wet sand, but the machine is much more nimble and doesn't get bopgged down so much trying to move around.

I am thinking of cutting the block down to about 500 lbs or making a new one.

To make it more compact and fit between the lift arms, I used an 8-sided design: See this thread with photos of my ballast block:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/build-yourself/68932-ballast-block.html?highlight=ballast

- Rick

 

[gotcha]

For my B26, I just bought the Kubota ballast box and put 6-80 pound bags of ready mix concrete and 3 cement blocks in bedded into it all. That is working very well for this ole geezer.
The Gotcha Man

 

[Mike058]

Can you have too much rear ballast?

I am doing some heavy digging with the FEL and the back end is light with filled tires and the box blade attached. So I am thinking about building a concrete ballast block. Therefore, I can make it as big as I want.

After reading some replies from those that have already been there, I'd go with the suggestions for something that can be "scalable". If the 1300 pounds is too much, you have a 1300 pound paper weight. Would be a good trail block too. You say the back end is "light" with the box blade. How light and how much does your box blade weigh? Ron's idea of adding weight to the box blade would give you an idea of how big a block to cast if you wanted something more compact than the box blade back there.

 

[Racer71]

Thanks to all for the discussion.

Mike,

I am planning to run all-thread front to back and side to side to help hold the form together. A few fender washers should take care of any cracking.

The back end will lift if I lower a full bucket too fast and stop it. I have also lifted the rears when trying to break the dirt free.

Keeney,

My tractor is a 34 hp Kubota that comes in around 4,000 pounds with the loader and filled tires. The box blade is 450 pounds.

Erik,

Do you secure the kitty blocks some how? I don't want the ballast falling off.

M7040,

It looks like you are using a fork lift arm. Does the load move?

Jimmy,

Lift arms are there to lift. They should be fine.

Ron,

Moving the weight back transfers weight from the front to the rear. At some point this becomes an issue with an empty bucket. Having the weight forwardjust plants the rears harder. Wheel weights and filled tires do this.

All,

It looks like I can build this paperweight for about $100.

 

[m7040]

racer, yes the box is on pallet forks mounted to the three point and can be lifted with the three point as well as tilted with the top tilt cylinder. Box is very simple lumber box filled with crushed rocks. Also have now added chain rachet attachment to make sure the box does not slide off

 

[California]

I made a 3/4" plywood deck for the top of the box blade, to carry ballast. Then I chain on old concrete pier blocks. The deck extends behind the BB so the last row of blocks is centered over the back edge.

I also use the HF Quick Hitch with this. It adds 60 lbs but more important it moves the ballast farther back.

I don't have a picture for the BB but here's a similar picture when I was experimenting with ballast on my disc. This is 8 blocks = about 400 lbs, and room for more if needed. I like the ability to change ballast in 50 lb increments.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/...disc-can-i-remove-p1070793rsmdiscwballast.jpg