Buying Advice To buy a tractor or not?

[the old grind]

Heh, wanting a tractor is as natural as us 50s kids wanting Lionel trains back then. Looks like you'd be flat enuf to use a SCUT, but I'd want to rent a mini-ex for big chores, since with a sub-framed BH on a CUT or SCUT you might lose ground clearance and/or come up short on raw digging power. What I mean is just choose based on o'all battery of attachments you plan for.

Sometimes a small gen & sawzall beats a chain saw for cutting vines/roots 'out back', with less time spent changing blades vs dulled chains. 'Brush Grubber' gets small stuff out roots & all, pulls vines down from standing trees once cut-off at the base. Chip all while green ... or burn later. Push piles with a ratchet rake or similar and just bundle onto bucket with tie downs to haul out vs using/buying a grapple.

btw: Don't wait to put up bat houses, Summer's coming. Habitat mgt is a fun 'hobby' in itself. As time goes by you do less & enjoy the results more, nice as you get 'up there' in age, too....

 

[PSUTundra]

Quite a few items while I "work from home" today:
- Tried to talk to a conservation agent, they are the ones who do not really exist in this area. Their primary focus is erosion and overall watershed, they said they might have time in about a month and will call me.
- Talked to the local forester and scheduled an appointment for next week. While they do not provide detailed written plans, they do review the property and give verbal recommendations while onsite. They also recommend resources for creating a plan myself or through a paid agency, and will have those during my site visit. They will also review the plans once written and provide sign-off or feedback.
- My Goals: 1.) Make sure the area is healthy and will continue to survive as a wooded area. 2.) Create a set of walking trails to enjoy the area.

These goals seem fairly simple but executing them may be difficult and require some equipment. I am particularly interested in the non-native invasive species of plants and keeping some trees, I do not want the vines to take over as they seem to be doing in certain areas. Other than that as some have mentioned the "hobby" of just enjoying the maintenance and the benefits of all that comes naturally is what I want.

Thanks again and keep the thoughts coming, I still think a tractor is in my future, just what and when I still have to figure out.

 

[TripleR]

I have always liked vines, left over from my childhood, but I sure cut everyone I come across as they do mess up your trees.

You should be able to find information on the Internet from other state agencies or universities on forest and wildlife management. We have planted seedlings and saplings on our farms and the management is pretty much ongoing.

Having a tractor sure makes it easier and we also rent skid steer, excavators as needed rather than spending the money on buying them.

My brother bought a good used tree mover for one of our tractors and used it for several years and got his money back when we were done.

There are lots of ways to get where you want to go.

 

[BuilderML]

The only vines that are good are the ones that produce grapes to be turned into a good wine. Napalm the rest. :newhere::laughing:

 

[TripleR]

The only vines that are good are the ones that produce grapes to be turned into a good wine. Napalm the rest. :newhere::laughing:

MP903 Quail-Friendly Plants of the Midwest | Page 21 | University of Missouri Extension

 

[dave1949]

MP903 Quail-Friendly Plants of the Midwest | Page 21 | University of Missouri Extension

I have four concord grape vines that produce grapes every year. Nothing eats them, the clusters hang there until winter, all shriveled up. We have ruffed grouse, not quail, and the vines may be too far out in the open for grouse. It has always surprised me that the grapes don't get eaten. You'd think turkeys, fox, coyotes, or something would eat them.

The Japanese beetles do like the leaves.

 

[dave1949]

Quite a few items while I "work from home" today:
- Tried to talk to a conservation agent, they are the ones who do not really exist in this area. Their primary focus is erosion and overall watershed, they said they might have time in about a month and will call me.
- Talked to the local forester and scheduled an appointment for next week. While they do not provide detailed written plans, they do review the property and give verbal recommendations while onsite. They also recommend resources for creating a plan myself or through a paid agency, and will have those during my site visit. They will also review the plans once written and provide sign-off or feedback.
- My Goals: 1.) Make sure the area is healthy and will continue to survive as a wooded area. 2.) Create a set of walking trails to enjoy the area.

These goals seem fairly simple but executing them may be difficult and require some equipment. I am particularly interested in the non-native invasive species of plants and keeping some trees, I do not want the vines to take over as they seem to be doing in certain areas. Other than that as some have mentioned the "hobby" of just enjoying the maintenance and the benefits of all that comes naturally is what I want.

Thanks again and keep the thoughts coming, I still think a tractor is in my future, just what and when I still have to figure out.

Those sound like reasonable goals. It should be enjoyable, and it won't happen in one or two years. You will be making changes to something that is slowly changing all the time, with or without you.

Ground and cover disturbance can open the door to invasives, so you're right to keep watch for them.

 

[TripleR]

I have four concord grape vines that produce grapes every year. Nothing eats them, the clusters hang there until winter, all shriveled up. We have ruffed grouse, not quail, and the vines may be too far out in the open for grouse. It has always surprised me that the grapes don't get eaten. You'd think turkeys, fox, coyotes, or something would eat them.

The Japanese beetles do like the leaves.

I'm surprised as well, we only have wild grape vines and something eats hm as a couple of years ago a tree blew down and the grapes disappeared pretty quickly.

 

[PSUTundra]

I spent the morning with the forester, walking around our wet woods (rain for the last two days). Some things I knew and some were a learning experience:
- We need to control our deer population, we have almost no native small trees as a result of too many deer eating them
- We have a major undergrowth problem, almost all of it is invasive species in some places
- We have a major vine problem with the Japanese Honeysuckle
- We have a decent "new growth" forest that if the above are taken care of will continue
- We have a large number of Ash trees which will be gone in about 10 years due to the emerald ash borer

My rough plan based on her semi-joking comment of "nuke it":
- Continue the manual removal of vines (except the smaller Virginia Creeper, which is native, but large ones will be removed) from the trees, focusing on the non-ash trees first
- Start a manual removal of the undergrowth and a spray program to start to battle against the honeysuckle, wild roses, and other non-natives
- Start a planting program of native trees (my goal today which may change is to try and "fix" an area by the the spring to plant 25 new trees and repeat each year)
- Create a trail network through the property to enjoy what we have and also make it easier to get into the woods and keep it under control

I still feel a tractor would be good to help with:
- Undergrowth removal (grapple, ratchet rake, toothbar, RC)
- Movement of the debris from above and the existing debris
- Creation of and maintenance of a trail network
- Some light tree work, cleaning up hanging branches and helping process some trees to firewood
- Garden installation
- Fence maintenance
- other DIY property maintenance

So now I need some more thoughts on size, brand and implements. My revised thoughts are still around that small CUT size of a Mahindra Max 28XL or Kubota B and I definitely need to get over to the local Deere dealer and see what they have, but want to continue to hear thoughts from you guys. I am now really wavering on the BH, while it would be nice it is a lot of money for an implement that can be rented and that rental will have greater capabilities. For other initial must have implements: FEL, ratchet rake or tooth bar, pallet forks, RC, and a box blade. I need some thoughts on those and prices. I also want some input on local dealers if anyone knows them, PA north of Philadelphia near Doylestown zip 18901.

Thanks again.

 

[TripleR]

It sounds like a good plan, we have various tractors and still rent a min excavator or tracked skid loader when needed. Last year we rented a tracked skid steer for a week and did in that time what would have taken weeks to do with our tractors and no doubt resulted in some flats and maybe equipment damage. My son drove the skid loader while I bush hogged and directed him via radio as it was too dense to see anywhere and he sat so low. We have a combination of woods and open areas with native warm season grasses.

Even with the right equipment what you are doing is a long term proposition, but well worth it.

 

[dave1949]

Sounds like a good plan. I think dropping the back hoe is probably a good choice. For what you plan, cutting trees off at ground level and leave the roots and stump will be fine, no need really to dig them up. That takes a lot of power or a lot of time for stumps of any size.

After more descriptions of your project challenges, I think the piranha cutting edge and a grapple are going to be your most useful tools. Cut off/root up with the piranha and gather and haul away with the grapple. The grapple needs a third-function hydraulics setup on the FEL, and you would want the quick attach FEL option to make it easy to swap between the bucket and grapple.

If you can burn in your area, I would sure consider piling up the honeysuckle, roses, junk trees, branches, etc. and burning them this winter. Watch out for burning poison ivy though. If you make piles that aren't too large, cover them with a tarp this fall, wait for a couple inches of snow cover, remove the tarp and burn.

Another possibility is hauling it to a municipal composting facility, but that requires a truck or trailer and probably many trips.

 

[PSUTundra]

A few more thoughts after a night of sleep/thinking:
- Piranha or Ratchet Rake?
- With the large number of ash trees that will need to be taken care of is it foolish to rule out the BH? Just looked at the grass areas and at least 30 trees in there are ash so stumps eventually need to come out. I still think once a year excavator rental will work but in 10 years I could have owned that.
- Is the RC needed up front or between the aggressive tooth bar, chemicals, and some work can the RC come when needed for maintenance.
- The wife is worried I am going to be working in the woods for the rest of my life, any wisdom on how to discuss this? Her idea is hire it out, I say no way too much money and for that I can have a tractor!

 

[k0ua]

Don't hire it out.. What I have seen is well doable by you. Heck if you were my neighbor I would bring the Kioti over and help you. What you have looks like fun to me. I cannot comment on either the Pirhana or the Ratchet Rake, but the guys that have either of them seem to like them. I think the Rotary Cutter can come a little later, once you get the bad stuff gone, you will want to cut the regrowth. But if the backhoe is just to take out the stumps and once that is done, I am thinking rental of the MiniEX. $6000 will buy lots of other toys to keep the land in shape, and lots of rental time.. up to you, but that is my thoughts.

james K0UA

 

[Creamer]

I agree with no BH if it is just for stumps. They will rot out in not many years. A few stumpeater organisms will help the process along but within 3 years after it is dead it will be rotten enough for you to roll what is left out and level it out. Digging is just way to much work. If you take them all down at one time you can probably find someone with a stump grinder to take them out quickly. Cost is very reasonable if you have a bunch.

I agree with k0ua - it looks like a fun challenge and something you can be proud of when you are done.

The grapple would be real handy though!

 

[dave1949]

A few more thoughts after a night of sleep/thinking:
- Piranha or Ratchet Rake?
- With the large number of ash trees that will need to be taken care of is it foolish to rule out the BH? Just looked at the grass areas and at least 30 trees in there are ash so stumps eventually need to come out. I still think once a year excavator rental will work but in 10 years I could have owned that.
- Is the RC needed up front or between the aggressive tooth bar, chemicals, and some work can the RC come when needed for maintenance.
- The wife is worried I am going to be working in the woods for the rest of my life, any wisdom on how to discuss this? Her idea is hire it out, I say no way too much money and for that I can have a tractor!

Well, one way to look at it is, what equipment do you need when the clearing is done with? I would say at that point you need at minimum a tractor like a B3030 with a FEL and rotary cutter for maintaining the woodsy area. That is a sort of equipment baseline.

You will spend a lot of time in the woods :laughing:, but it can be at times of your choosing and on your schedule. It's been that way for years now and five more won't hurt anything.

You would probably pay somewhere in the $150 - $200 per hour range to hire the work out to someone with the right equipment. A 40 hour week @ $175/hr is $7000. Its impossible for me to guess how many hours a good worker would need, but two weeks worth should get you a long, long ways. So, that option can have a price put on it easily if you get an estimate or two, which you ought to do anyways even if you think it is more likely you will do it yourself. You can break that hired-out work down into yearly segments, but that will probably cost more overall.

Once you put a hard $ number on it, and consider the time and effort you will put into it, marital bliss, and pain and suffering :laughing:, it should make your decision easier. Without the right equipment that is going to be a miserable job, especially in summer down in that jungle with no air and lots of bugs. So, if you decide to do it yourself, don't minimize what it will take to do it with a smile.

 

[PSUTundra]

So I went to the Deere dealer this weekend as well as returned to the Mahindra dealer. I was unimpressed by the Deere dealer and their machines for the money (he put together a quick quote so he might have priced it high). I also had the Mahindra dealer price out a 3016HST as I think the size over the Max 28XL might be a benefit. I have also been to the Kubota dealer and overall like them but feel I am getting more machine for the money in a Mahindra.

Back to a question I do not think I have a good answer for: anyone have experience with the dealers in this area (north of Philadelphia, PA) and want to recommend one?

 

[Carl_NH]

Back to a question I do not think I have a good answer for: anyone have experience with the dealers in this area (north of Philadelphia, PA) and want to recommend one?

No, but you have Messick's covering most of central PA with Kubota and more brands, and it appears you have several local dealers to buy from.

While most of us like to buy local if possible, honestly, the quality and reliability of all the machines today, which dealer you buy from is more of a financial decision. Now, that said many here rely upon the dealer for regular service, parts and support, and this IS critical if you are a commercial operation that runs a 1000-2000 hours a year.

 

[Carl_NH]

Dbl post

 

[Don87]

The Mahindra 3016 would be a better choice for you than the MAX 28(IMHO). But as Carl said, give Messick's a call: Messick's | Dealer for New Holland, Case IH, Kubota, Cub Cadet and More | Online Parts, Sales & Service.
as the B3030 compares nicely in specs to the Mahindra.

The Piranha toothbar, or the ratchet rake would work good for you, but the toothbar would be better suited if you were to purchase The Thunb for a grapple on your bucket: Thumb grapple 36"

Make brush piles, don't burn......it's housing for rabbits. Properly placed they will be out of sight.

As far as the stumps, you can use 'stump rot': http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=stump rot&page=1&rh=i:aps,k:stump rot , or just chip out the top and keep water in it. cutting a hole with a chainsaw, and planting flowers in it works also: http://www.interiorholic.com/outdoors/landscaping/3-ways-to-decorate-old-tree-stumps-in-garden/

 

[PSUTundra]

Thought I would give a long overdue update. Finally placed a deposit on the Mahindra 3016 HST R4 FEL.

Talked to a number of dealers and Wallace Tractor and Equipment in Jefferson Township, PA just seemed to care the most. They also had a good equipment trailer, so the package really seemed like everything I wanted. They are also 15 minutes from my in-laws and they checked out with the family reputation.

I am currently recovering from surgery and will pickup the tractor as soon as the doctor clears me for heavy work again. At that point I get to start the fun "new tractor" thread, with pictures! :cool2: