Buying Advice To buy a tractor or not?

[PSUTundra]

Not the best for finish mowing though

No finish mowing for me, my Hustler Fasttrack SD 60" ZTR is an amazing grass cutting machine. The problem is all it does is cut grass and pick up leaves from the grass in the fall.

 

[tractchores]

Trust me, I know a chipper won't take vines (or wild roses) well, I learned that the hard way! I have spent a lot of time in our woods with a machete, axe, hand saw, and chain saw (just upgraded to a Stihl 291); but sadly I am loosing the battle. But I also have a lot of non-vine stuff to get through to get to the vines and walking it I am almost out of time for the year as it gets too thick. Again I think a tractor might be overkill but also might get me to the next level, so I appreciate the comments.

I don't want to discourage you in any way from getting a tractor (I love mine), but on some of the vines you may try a hand held brush trimmer. I have one that's got a 12" circular saw type of blade on a string trimmer like setup. I use it to clear out heavy vines on a hill I have, the vines grow up and create an impenetrable layer about 6' high mixed with brush, giant thorns (stick through my boots). It works very well because you can cut stuff at many levels, even well over your head and can cut things over and over again quickly to reduce it to size so you can pass through it. It's labor intensive, but may be a good way to start.

 

[PSUTundra]

One thing I think you need to be sure you are comfortable with is the speed of the hydraulics. It is very hard to change and with an FEL or other attachments this is something you use all the time and it is not obvious when you are looking at a tractor.

Not sure I understand this as I am still a novice with tractors. I have operated many machines: multiple forklifts, rented skid steers, lawn tractors, ZTRs, powered georgia buggies, used to live next to a farm where they used older Deeres and helped out occasionally, even tried a new JCB cabbed and tracked skid steer last year. But I have not really been on may tractors with FELs and BHs. I did stop by the local Mahindra dealer today and took a quick spin around the parking lot on a Max 28 HST. I spent more time on the FEL operation than anything other than just the operator station feel and it all worked. Looked awkward from the right side but once I sat down it felt good. I still need to do the same for the Kubota B3030 but it was raining by the time I got there and decided I can go back this week, since they are close. But I still need the advice on how else to get comfortable with the hydraulics.

 

[PSUTundra]

I don't want to discourage you in any way from getting a tractor (I love mine), but on some of the vines you may try a hand held brush trimmer. I have one that's got a 12" circular saw type of blade on a string trimmer like setup. I use it to clear out heavy vines on a hill I have, the vines grow up and create an impenetrable layer about 6' high mixed with brush, giant thorns (stick through my boots). It works very well because you can cut stuff at many levels, even well over your head and can cut things over and over again quickly to reduce it to size so you can pass through it. It's labor intensive, but may be a good way to start.

I have used one of those before and they are good. I need to get some photos up so everyone can have a better idea of if this is just wanting a tractor or it will actually be useful.

 

[tractchores]

Not sure I understand this as I am still a novice with tractors. I have operated many machines: multiple forklifts, rented skid steers, lawn tractors, ZTRs, powered georgia buggies, used to live next to a farm where they used older Deeres and helped out occasionally, even tried a new JCB cabbed and tracked skid steer last year. But I have not really been on may tractors with FELs and BHs. I did stop by the local Mahindra dealer today and took a quick spin around the parking lot on a Max 28 HST. I spent more time on the FEL operation than anything other than just the operator station feel and it all worked. Looked awkward from the right side but once I sat down it felt good. I still need to do the same for the Kubota B3030 but it was raining by the time I got there and decided I can go back this week, since they are close. But I still need the advice on how else to get comfortable with the hydraulics.

I'm not sure I understand the 'speed of the hydraulics' comment either. On most of the machines I've operated and on my kubota the speed depends on a combination of control pressure (your hands or feet) and throttle level. For example on my BH I often run it at less than PTO speed because it still has plenty of power and is a little less touchy on the controls. On the FEL the number of motions isn't that large, so you'll probably get used to that very quickly. The bigger issue in my mind is placement of the joystick and the 'feel' of things like the seating position, pedals, etc. You may be operating for hours on end, so you need it to be comfortable.

I think you'll be surprised at how much work a small amount of HP can get accomplished. In most tasks in the size tractor you are looking at you'll run out of traction far before you run out of HP. Weight can help, but ideally you want weight that you can remove VS having to have it on the whole time. Compaction is a real issue and in the woods even lightly configured my tire tracks are visible for up to a year even after just a single trip. Lawns can also be susceptible to getting 'tire tracks' or compression. A BH makes a great ballast by the way.

 

[dave1949]

Trust me, I know a chipper won't take vines (or wild roses) well, I learned that the hard way! I have spent a lot of time in our woods with a machete, axe, hand saw, and chain saw (just upgraded to a Stihl 291); but sadly I am loosing the battle. But I also have a lot of non-vine stuff to get through to get to the vines and walking it I am almost out of time for the year as it gets too thick. Again I think a tractor might be overkill but also might get me to the next level, so I appreciate the comments.

I don't want to discourage you in any way from getting a tractor (I love mine), but on some of the vines you may try a hand held brush trimmer. I have one that's got a 12" circular saw type of blade on a string trimmer like setup. I use it to clear out heavy vines on a hill I have, the vines grow up and create an impenetrable layer about 6' high mixed with brush, giant thorns (stick through my boots). It works very well because you can cut stuff at many levels, even well over your head and can cut things over and over again quickly to reduce it to size so you can pass through it. It's labor intensive, but may be a good way to start.

You guys have some real jungles going on there. Wild roses does up the ante. I wasn't picturing something so thickly grown.

Like tractchores, I have a Stihl FS-250, it can use a string trimmer, brush blade, or a circular saw blade with chainsaw cutting teeth. It is a great tool for clearing, easily cuts saplings up 3" dia. and everything smaller depending on which head/blade is used. But with bushy stuff, it is still going to be a challenge to deal with the cut-offs.

A tractor with a FEL will definitely "bulldoze" through that stuff and make a pile of it that is easier to manage. I think for most Kubota FEL buckets a cutting edge is an option. You want a cutting edge that will slice off stuff. They tend to be self-sharpening if you do any dirt or gravel work. A grapple would be handy to deal with the debris.

If you go through ahead of the tractor and cut off the larger trees, say anything over 1" dia. with a saw, then use the bucket, you can do a fair amount of clearing. It's safer to cut the trees since they sometimes become sharpened spears leaning in your direction of travel. When you back up, they go through things like hoses, radiators and wires. That tends to be tree species dependent. Poplar and beech are the worst for me. It will also help to cut into 8'-10' lengths the tall trees. Then when you gather them using the bucket they aren't sticking out to the side so far snagging on standing trees.

 

[Don87]

Not sure I understand this as I am still a novice with tractors. I have operated many machines: multiple forklifts, rented skid steers, lawn tractors, ZTRs, powered georgia buggies, used to live next to a farm where they used older Deeres and helped out occasionally, even tried a new JCB cabbed and tracked skid steer last year. But I have not really been on may tractors with FELs and BHs. I did stop by the local Mahindra dealer today and took a quick spin around the parking lot on a Max 28 HST. I spent more time on the FEL operation than anything other than just the operator station feel and it all worked. Looked awkward from the right side but once I sat down it felt good. I still need to do the same for the Kubota B3030 but it was raining by the time I got there and decided I can go back this week, since they are close. But I still need the advice on how else to get comfortable with the hydraulics.

The only way to get comfortable with the hydraulics is to use the machine(the more the better). If you do get a tractor with the FEL, get yourself a Piranha toothbar BXpanded Piranha Tooth Bar it will make short work of bushes, shrubs and vines.

 

[Creamer]

Getting comfortable with the hydraulics will take a little time in the saddle as Don87 said. Really test the speed without the tractor engine running high RPM - have it at 1000-1200 as that is where you will be running it for a lot of loader work. If you find yourself waiting for the bucket to get where where you want it or if dumping it takes too long then you might want to consider another tractor.

The newer tractors all have better hydraulics but if you get an older one some manufacturers did not put in the best system and some have internal leaks that slow them down. When I talk to people about loaders the most common complaint is speed.

 

[newbury]

In regards to clearing vines and roses.

I also have an FS250. Lovely, powerful tool. Takes down 3" saplings. ONE AT A TIME.

A FEL alone is a poor tool. A FEL with a tooth bar or Piranha bar is a great tool. A grapple is the best.

Being CHEAP I've only bought clamp-on pallet forks, because I knew I needed them for other uses.

Clamp on pallet forks, are they worth buying? - Page 2

By angling the forks right we were able to clear an area about 100' by 50' in a few hours, starting with a totally untrained tractor driver (my son). Angle the forks down a bit, dig in, drop the bucket to ground level and level the forks, push, fill the bucket, curl back, RIP up, dump, REPEAT.

We were pulling up vines as thick as my wrist.

We had first tried the FS250 - too slow.
We then tried just the FEL, but we virtually had to dig up ALL the dirt.

Now I might not be able to do the big vines with my B7610 because the M4700 is rated for 2000 lbs at the FEL, but I'm sure it would do a pretty good job.

As the wallet refills I'm probably going to be getting a Piranha but the pallet forks made a BIG difference.

I'm pretty sure a B3030 with a Piranha could put an end to the OP's days of vines and roses.

/edit

And on the subject of chipping vines -
I've a thread on my Jinma experience so far.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/277284-jinma-8-chipper-first-hours.html

Probably 80% of the ""stuff" I've chipped has been vines and brambles. Mostly between 1/4 inch to 2 inches. They chip better if you cut them and give them a week or so to dry. It's not easy, but with a pusher stick they become small pieces.

 

[Don87]

In regards to clearing vines and roses.

I also have an FS250. Lovely, powerful tool. Takes down 3" saplings. ONE AT A TIME.

A FEL alone is a poor tool. A FEL with a tooth bar or Piranha bar is a great tool. A grapple is the best.

Being CHEAP I've only bought clamp-on pallet forks, because I knew I needed them for other uses.

Clamp on pallet forks, are they worth buying? - Page 2

By angling the forks right we were able to clear an area about 100' by 50' in a few hours, starting with a totally untrained tractor driver (my son). Angle the forks down a bit, dig in, drop the bucket to ground level and level the forks, push, fill the bucket, curl back, RIP up, dump, REPEAT.

We were pulling up vines as thick as my wrist.

We had first tried the FS250 - too slow.
We then tried just the FEL, but we virtually had to dig up ALL the dirt.

Now I might not be able to do the big vines with my B7610 because the M4700 is rated for 2000 lbs at the FEL, but I'm sure it would do a pretty good job.

As the wallet refills I'm probably going to be getting a Piranha but the pallet forks made a BIG difference.

I'm pretty sure a B3030 with a Piranha could put an end to the OP's days of vines and roses.

/edit

And on the subject of chipping vines -
I've a thread on my Jinma experience so far.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/attachments/277284-jinma-8-chipper-first-hours.html

Probably 80% of the ""stuff" I've chipped has been vines and brambles. Mostly between 1/4 inch to 2 inches. They chip better if you cut them and give them a week or so to dry. It's not easy, but with a pusher stick they become small pieces.

Yes, the Piranha tooth bar is a killer on shrubs and stuff. It is very sharp(it cut through the shipping box, and I cut my hand carrying it to the tractor), it will cut most of the smaller stuff off at ground level. It's best to wear gloves when installing it.

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Probably 80% of the ""stuff" I've chipped has been vines and brambles. Mostly between 1/4 inch to 2 inches. They chip better if you cut them and give them a week or so to dry. It's not easy, but with a pusher stick they become small pieces.

Where did you get a picture of my yard???

Really, that pic looks like this spot on my property:



Bamboo, tree, brush pile, and all!

 

[scaredychicken]

Originally Posted by tractchores
"I don't want to discourage you in any way from getting a tractor (I love mine), but on some of the vines you may try a hand held brush trimmer. I have one that's got a 12" circular saw type of blade on a string trimmer like setup. I use it to clear out heavy vines on a hill I have, the vines grow up ... It's labor intensive, but may be a good way to start.

I have used one of those before and they are good. I need to get some photos up so everyone can have a better idea of if this is just wanting a tractor or it will actually be useful."





I have MORE HRS on the 2006 Husqvarna brushcutter (with several different metal blades) than on my atv and the JD160 (since purchased) COMBINED. Probably the best piece of equipment I've purchased. For me it took some getting used to, but wow does that thing do the job - even on 2-3 inch saplings. It DOES NOT replace a tractor however (or a chainsaw, for that matter). I've managed without a tractor so far ($$$, not choice), but this year things may change.:dance1:

 

[dougtrr2]

I also live on 8 acres of forest with some yard. Plenty of good input already on the tractor issue. But have you considered having a state forester come evaluate your land? In Iowa you can have the state forester come out and evaluate your land, design a written plan based on your goals and it is free. In some cases you can take that plan to the local county conservation office and actually get paid to do what you were going to do already. I also put my land in forest preserve status which takes it off the residential tax roles and into a much lower rate. Just some food for thought. By the way I am using a BX24 with loader and backhoe, a Stihl 032 and M200T, and a lot of sweat to maintain my forest. My land is too hilly to get the tractor deep in the woods.

Take Care,
Doug in SW IA

 

[PSUTundra]

All good ideas and thoughts so far, so keep them coming. I will look into the state forester but not sure how that would work since technically we are in suburbia, zoned residential, and have mostly yards around us. This is also why I think our little "forest" is important to the area and want to make sure it stays healthy. I walked around this morning and actually feel better about the conditions, I still need to spend a couple of hard years and sweat to make sure I get ahead of the vines and then can maintain it until someone else takes over for me (25-30 years from now!). I also think a tractor would be a great addition so here are my photos:

 

[TripleR]

I would seek some advice from a conservation agent as well. We have a mix of open forest, clearings and brush to try to maximize wildlife habitat. Some people clean a section of woods up to the point to where it is nothing ore than a park; nothing wrong with that, but you won't have much diversity. We are going to have someone come out and look at a section we are restoring to trees to set up a pan for future management.

 

[dave1949]

The pics help. I guess one question is, what do you want it to look like, or what is your goal? Are you wanting to create some particular sort of habitat, such as for song birds?

I think the natural inclination is to over-clear areas like this, I know mine is. But that isn't "healthy" in wildlife habitat terms. Obviously, the more city-park like you make it, the more you will be inclined to spend time there, but it comes at a price to habitat variety and species support, plus it takes more maintenance, primarily mowing, to keep it in a park-like state.

If it were mine, I would focus on getting the vines under control and aim long-term at trying to create/maintain three habitat zones, ground cover (including rotting logs), bushes and small trees up to 15 feet tall, and maturing, tall trees. A few 1/4 to 1/2 acre clearings maintained by alternating areas bush hogging every year or two in late July are good too.

 

[dave1949]

I would seek some advice from a conservation agent as well. We have a mix of open forest, clearings and brush to try to maximize wildlife habitat. Some people clean a section of woods up to the point to where it is nothing ore than a park; nothing wrong with that, but you won't have much diversity. We are going to have someone come out and look at a section we are restoring to trees to set up a pan for future management.

You beat me to it, but I had similar ideas. :laughing:

 

[TripleR]

You beat me to it, but I had similar ideas. :laughing:

You know what they say about great minds.:thumbsup:

 

[dave1949]

You know what they say about great minds.:thumbsup:

Ah, the Monday morning mutual admiration society is in session.

I was thinking this would be a great area to set up some beehives if that is of interest, and your suburban neighbors aren't overly pesticide happy.

 

[TripleR]

Ah, the Monday morning mutual admiration society is in session.

I was thinking this would be a great area to set up some beehives if that is of interest, and your suburban neighbors aren't overly pesticide happy.

Not to worry; lots of other things on which we disagree I am sure and the admiration goes right out the window I suppose.

I helped my father in law clear out eight acres of woods shortly after he retired. He put a shelter out in it with an ice box, BBQ grill and he spent many enjoyable hours taking breaks, but he never could figure out why he no longer saw the wild game that he first saw when he bought the property. He passed some years ago and we are managing it for game, recreation, reforestation and the deer, quail and turkey are slowly returning as we allow some areas to grow up, mowing some, native grasses etc.