Tiller Tiller Shopping

rationalizer · Jan 26, 2003

Hi Folks!

I'm in the market for a tiller - hoping to buy one in the next few months so I'm ready for the spring. I plan on using it for prepping for lawns, garden work, levelling paths and turning some of my property from "rough fields" to "smooth fields". I've got a JD 4710 (48hp). I've got 10 acres - mostly old farm field, heavy clay soil. I'm looking at Landpride, Woods, and maybe some of the more "value" focused brands.

One "feature" that I'm intrigued by is the Landpride "reverse tiller" design - where the tines are cutting "up" on the leading edge and there are "sifting rods" at the trailing edge that they claim result in the finer soil being left on top after tilling. Does anyone have experience with this design? Does it actually work as advertised vs. the traditional "downward" cut tines on other tillers? Of course this design is more expensive than the "traditional" design (Landpride offers "forward cut" tillers as well.)

What experience do people have with the Woods tillers? I have a Woods rotary cutter and box blade, which I find to be very well made. The Woods runs a heavier chain (100 vs 80 on the Landpride units I'm looking at). How about other brands? I like to buy "made in the USA" and it looks like the "value brands" like Sicma etc. are made overseas but the prices on the LP and Woods are very high - so I may go the value route. I do have good LP and Woods dealers nearby - however - so that is a plus....

Thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Bill

Rick Jay · Jan 26, 2003

Bill,

I might be looking for a tiller sometime in the future as well. I can't add much to your post other than I read somewhere on this board that just about all the tillers sold in the U.S. are made in Italy.

I also believe my dealer, who sells Woods, mentioned that the Woods tillers are made in Italy.

The Woods tillers do look like real beefy units. It might be hard to find a brand made "Made in the U.S.A.". And I think that is sad, but that's another thread under a different topic.

I'd be interested in any reports on the reverse tiller design of the Landpride units myself.

~Rick

rationalizer · Jan 26, 2003

Rick,

Interesting about the Woods tillers - I noticed that their literature doesn't mention where they are made. The Landpride units are made in Abilene, Kansas - at least according to their literature.

Bill

JohnMiller3 · Jan 26, 2003

<font color=blue>...It might be hard to find a brand made "Made in the U.S.A.". ..</font color=blue>

I was told the KingKutter II tillers were made in Ohio, U.S.A.
(last pricing 5’ tiller $999. & 6’ tiller $1199.)

Hoeman00 · Jan 26, 2003

I run a 74" Bush hog tiller, don't know if us made w/o
looking tonight.
I usually run 2 passes to turn everything to powder.
Only problem is w/ powder on top and some rain
it crusts over and the sun bakes it hard.
Better to leave larger pcs. and some mulch on
surface.
Sometimes farmers have to go in w/ a rotary hoe
to break crust for crops to emerge.
On heavy and clay soil I would add lots of manure to
loosen soil.
I paid a little over $1500 for my Bush hog new.

Bird · Jan 26, 2003

<font color=blue>Only problem is w/ powder on top and some rain it crusts over and the sun bakes it hard. Better to leave larger pcs. and some mulch on surface</font color=blue>

I preferred finely tilled soil, so I just ran over my garden with the tiller as soon as it dried enough after each rain, year round.

HayDR · Jan 26, 2003

CCM Tillers available in Kubota Orange

Anonymous Poster · Jan 26, 2003

Hello John--Are you sure the gear boxes and tines are not manufactured in and
imported from, Italy and then assembled in USA. This process does get you USA
sheetmetal and a USA designed machine and that is about it--- This is been a common practice on
most shortline equipment and tractors for years?--Ken Sweet

HayDR · Jan 26, 2003

CCM tillers are ALL gear driven and available from many dealers on TBN <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.ccmachinery.com/tillers.htm>CCM TILLERS</A>

JohnMiller3 · Jan 26, 2003

Hi Ken,

Oh, I'm sure they are using foreign components like everyone else does... I don't know of an american made rotary cutter with an "american" gearbox... Is there an american mfr?

About a year or two ago, I called KK in AL. for info on their tiller, I was redirected to call Ohio "where they were made"... /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif then the person in Ohio said they "only mfr. the tiller" and didn't have any literature... and re-redirected me to call back Alabama... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

So Ken... in a way... I'm glad they weren't made in Italy... my phone bill couldn't afford it... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

JATO_RaT · Jan 26, 2003

I've looked at various tillers in the past, Kuhn & Howard seem to be 2 of the tops. I question though whether an all gear drive is superior to a chain drive. With the brutal punishing and jarring situation a tiller goes through, it would seem a chain would offer some cushion or shcok protection. I know some manufactuers provide both drives. Any experience or reasons why a gear would be superior over a chain drive? The tillers I looked at had chain drives of #100 chains and larger. Rat...

rdbrumfield · Jan 26, 2003

I have had howard, kuhn and now a JD.
If I hadn't found a deal on the JD I would have gone with onother kuhn. The gear drive has to be the smoothest tiller out there. The JD is a 680 about 7' wide. Does a good job with light soil, but is a bit light, tends to hop.
On the reverse till, I do some by backing up with the door open in tough soil. I have found that the secret is to go as slow with the tractor as possible with the tiller at full trottle in sod. Once it is cut, you have a hard time busting it up once the ground has been loosened. That first pass is forward to cut the sod.

Anonymous Poster · Jan 26, 2003

I question though whether an all gear drive is superior to a chain drive. With the brutal punishing and jarring situation a tiller goes through, it would seem a chain would offer some cushion or shcok protection.

Hi Rat--I think you hit the nail on the head--we sell First Choice in both gear and chain drive tillers and when the gears wear out, they will get into your pocket book bigtime---Most of my customers had rather replace a chain every 100 acres of roto-tilling for $10-$15--than 2 gears for ??????---Ken Sweet
Sweet Farm Equipment Co
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sweettractors.com>http://www.sweettractors.com</A>

HayDR · Jan 26, 2003

Rat,
Your JD is a Howard tiller. Just ask the landscapers why the do not like chain drives. If the chain breaks 80% of the time the gearbox housing is trashed and the repair will be more than the cost of a gear. Is the transmission in your car gear or chain driven? Its gear driven. I was the service manager for First Choice, (Sicma), and we hardly ever had any problems with a gear drive tiller but we sold many chains, sprockets, & side casings for those chain drive tillers. This in no way is saying anything bad about a FC tiller because its a good tiller. The chain will strech over time and cause wear on the sprocket. Why do most all the manufacturers with 100+ HP main gear boxes use a gear drive? The chains just can not take it when the HP is applied.

rdbrumfield · Jan 27, 2003

I have to agree with you, I have replaced sprockets and stretched chains, but never did take out a gear box in 15 yrs of some pretty tough going with the geardrive kuhn.

JATO_RaT · Jan 27, 2003

Randall, this is where one such as myself would have to listen to folks such as yourself who obviously know from where they speak. When I mentioned these two tillers, you didn't come out and tell me how you can get a brand x for $500 in a 72" width that weighs 300lbs. I should think a tiller takes a great deal of punishment from its ordinary task of picking into dirt to hitting rocks and debris hidden to the eye. I for one would rather wait and get a tiller with some mass and quality until I could afford it then a lightweight unit. I'm confused though, are you saying the Kuhn's have bidirectional tilling? A gearbox with a "reverse till option" That would be interesting. Thanks for the heads up about chains and gears. It would just seem from a contact point of view that chains would have full contact all the time where the gears get 2 or 3 teeth having full contact and thus less chance to break something as the result of a tine slamming into a cobble. Certainly I can see the wear factor of chains developing. Replacing a chain after a few hundred hours or every other tine change might be in order. I think folks reading this about tillers will be most interested about chains vs gears. Then theres the whole weight vs width etc. to talk about. Rat...

Hoeman00 · Jan 27, 2003

Don't forget about KK gear vs Kuhn gear, I would
imagine KK uses a cheap cast and higher $$$ ones
might use bar stock gears.
Big difference in life and shock load.
One thing that helps before tilling is use some
kind of ripper or plow to bust up soil before tilling.

rdbrumfield · Jan 27, 2003

Sorry about the confusion about reversing. I use my tiller at times when I'm digging footings and such with the loader. When I'm in clay I will open the soor and run the tiller while backing up. It digs in better to loosen the ground. It chunks it out though and I wouldn't recommend it for finish tilling. As far as I know except for some hand tillers they don't reverse the rotation. If a tiller did that I would imagine that the blades would have to have cutting edges and angles on both front and back edges.
You are certainly right on about tillers taking a beating. I acn't tell you how many times a person has told me that "oh there's nothing in there" before I start chewing and have the tiller bounce out of the ground on concrete, steel, and the worst, steel cable winding up in the tines. I will say that I have broken tines, bent them and the flanges on the rotor axle, but never did take out a set of gears. I do prefer them over the chain final drive. Remember, this is just a personal opinion, and I'm sure that others have some reguarding their blessings of other systems.

Bird · Jan 27, 2003

I have not seen any tillers that would "reverse"; i.e., change the direction of rotation of the tines. However, I have seen "counter rotating" tillers on which the tines dig in at the rear and turn through the soil toward the front. I owned a little Sears self-propelled counter rotating tiller, and I saw a Kubota tiller once that the dealer told me was counter rotating (I didn't look at it closely enough to verify what he told me), but then I owned a Bush Hog RTS40 tiller that was not counter rotating. I have assumed (erroneously?) that was what was being discussed here. Does anyone know of a tiller on which you can reverse the direction and till either way?

Rockyroad · Jan 27, 2003

I bought a Kuhn back in 1986 to go on my JD 750. I live in Rhode Island, which means lots and lots of rocks. The Kuhn is a tough machine. It has an adjustable clutch to take up some of the shock of hitting rocks and boulders. I busted a tine shaft before I learned to adjust the clutch, but that has been about all I have had in the way of problems. I put in a new tine shaft and had the old one welded as a backup. I just have to replace an oil seal that has gone bad on the gearbox end after 25 plus years. This Kuhn as been used hard in the stoney soil here. It is one tough machine. I paid about $1,500 back in 1986, but I don't know what they are worth now. I also bought a TroyBilt horse in 1986 to cultivate between rows. I have to replace the oil seals on the tiller end on that too! Anyways, I would highly recommend the Kuhn, although there are other good brands out there as well. I have had the cover off the gear box end of the Kuhn, and the gears are heavy and the whole thing seems to be built for heavy duty use.