Those #+%^ engineers!

[mjonesnh]

Friend told me of a Camry that had to have the inner front fender removed to replace the battery.

Didn't have to remove inner fender but passenger front tire. 2000 Dodge Intrepid had panel in wheel well to remove and slide battery out, much easier with no tire in way

 

[RayIN]

I would like to curse the first person to place batteries in insane places, justifying it with "jump points" to provide some convenience.

What a monster.

Yup, 2017 Jeep GC Limited has main and aux. battery under passenger seat. Yes 2 different size batteries. Passenger seat must be removed to access batteries.

 

[RayIN]

My 2008 GMC 2500HD with the Duramax and dual batteries was worse. Battery was behind the left headlights with a solid plate between them on the radiator support. No way to reach in and get to the back of the bulbs by just removing the battery or from the top. First step was removing the grill to get at the bolts for the left fender, second step was to remove the left fender to access the headlight housing screws, third step was to remove the headlight housing and replace the bulb. The right headlights only required removing the breather box for the air filter, there was a hole in the radiator support to get to the back of the headlight housing.

Sounds like my old 2002 D'max dually.

 

[kenmbz]

Speaking of Jeep from experience.
Blend actuator doors that get stuck on the drivers side due to the rubber coating in the body warping. Only way to fix is to remove the whole heater core and dash. I tried to find a place big enough to drill to bypass the door, with no luck.
And a clock motor to drive the passenger and drivers side hvac doors with a little plastic gear, that breaks every few years.
Yes the main battery is under the passenger seat, so in order to remove I had to hook a battery to the underhood jump points to move the seat forward, back, forward, back in order to replace the battery!

One of the headlight power supplies went bad, in order to replace the whole front bumper and grill need to come off to get the headlight out, as the driver is under the headlight assembly.

Plastic oil pan, but has a skid plate. However, over time the plastic warps and weeps oil. I mean an off road capable vehicle with a plastic oil pan

Computers under the drivers seat and passenger seat, wonder what happens when you spill something......


New cars, no dipsticks at all, everything through the front dash console.

 

[tacticalturnip]

Yup, 2017 Jeep GC Limited has main and aux. battery under passenger seat. Yes 2 different size batteries. Passenger seat must be removed to access batteries.

It's just great, it's where we all know batteries should go.

The HMMWV (Humvee) has them under the front passenger seat, but that seat at least is easy to remove. They don't have an interior meant to impress, lol.

 

[grsthegreat]

I havnt had to do it, but I was told I have to remove the rubber inner liner above tire to replace the headlight lamps in my 2020 F150. What a PITA.

 

[dstig1]

Had an 04 Accord that you had to go in through the wheel well to replace headlights. Lots of sharp steel edges in a small space without enough room to grab anything. I was glad I only had to do one light...

 

[jyoutz]

Speaking of Jeep from experience.
Blend actuator doors that get stuck on the drivers side due to the rubber coating in the body warping. Only way to fix is to remove the whole heater core and dash. I tried to find a place big enough to drill to bypass the door, with no luck.
And a clock motor to drive the passenger and drivers side hvac doors with a little plastic gear, that breaks every few years.
Yes the main battery is under the passenger seat, so in order to remove I had to hook a battery to the underhood jump points to move the seat forward, back, forward, back in order to replace the battery!

One of the headlight power supplies went bad, in order to replace the whole front bumper and grill need to come off to get the headlight out, as the driver is under the headlight assembly.

Plastic oil pan, but has a skid plate. However, over time the plastic warps and weeps oil. I mean an off road capable vehicle with a plastic oil pan

Computers under the drivers seat and passenger seat, wonder what happens when you spill something......


New cars, no dipsticks at all, everything through the front dash console.

What model is this? My 2020 Wrangler has the batteries under the hood and there’s no need to remove the bumper to replace headlights. And it doesn’t have a plastic oil pan.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I had an uncle who bought a small Ford car years ago, Fiesta I think, and it needed a water pump. The dealer quoted a high labor price because of one very hard to access bolt.
So he drove it home and drilled a 1" hole in inner fender where bolt was. That reduced the water pump bill a lot.
Back home he put a 1" rubber plug in the hole.

 

[mrmikey]

I havnt had to do it, but I was told I have to remove the rubber inner liner above tire to replace the headlight lamps in my 2020 F150. What a PITA.

Daughters Journey is the same way and a battery no bigger than what you'd find on a motorcycle but not priced accordingly. Really helps when it gets covered in salty road crap.

 

[WinterDeere]

I had an uncle who bought a small Ford car years ago, Fiesta I think, and it needed a water pump. The dealer quoted a high labor price because of one very hard to access bolt.
So he drove it home and drilled a 1" hole in inner fender where bolt was. That reduced the water pump bill a lot.
Back home he put a 1" rubber plug in the hole.

... and you wonder why the manufacturer couldn't have just done this in the first place. Perhaps the unibody had already been thru crash test ratings, and a hole in that location would have required re-testing? Just a guess.

Depending on the engineers involved, most of the OP's items could be chalked up to accountants and managers. My career has been filled with a desire to fix inherited problems with designs, or problems created by unexpected changes that were out of my hands, only to be told there's no time or budget allowed for the fix. I suspect most engineers could tell many such stories.

Maybe the engineers at Subaru spec'd an A/C compressor with a serviceable clutch, only to be overruled by marketing and accounting, or the guys designing the engine compartment at Toyota were never told a 3.5L V6 might go in there someday down the road. Very few wouldn't want to fix these problems, once known, but we are rarely left to chase these things in a modern company with tightly-controlled resource management.

 

[kenmbz]

What model is this? My 2020 Wrangler has the batteries under the hood and there’s no need to remove the bumper to replace headlights. And it doesn’t have a plastic oil pan.

2011 Jeep GC 5.7l

 

[jyoutz]

... and you wonder why the manufacturer couldn't have just done this in the first place. Perhaps the unibody had already been thru crash test ratings, and a hole in that location would have required re-testing? Just a guess.

Depending on the engineers involved, most of the OP's items could be chalked up to accountants and managers. My career has been filled with a desire to fix inherited problems with designs, or problems created by unexpected changes that were out of my hands, only to be told there's no time or budget allowed for the fix. I suspect most engineers could tell many such stories.

Maybe the engineers at Subaru spec'd an A/C compressor with a serviceable clutch, only to be overruled by marketing and accounting, or the guys designing the engine compartment at Toyota were never told a 3.5L V6 might go in there someday down the road. Very few wouldn't want to fix these problems, once known, but we are rarely left to chase these things in a modern company with tightly-controlled resource management.

My guess is the engines and car bodies are designed separately. That same engine might fit perfectly into another vehicle model without this issue. Then they shoehorn the engine into a smaller vehicle model and these issues occur.

 

[jjeff]

Snowmobile chain cases bloody engineers
,bean counters stopped putting drain plugs on newer snowmobiles now.on some models you either need to use an oil extractor which sucks the oil out or split the chain case getting gear lube all over the belly pan. The newer skidoos gen 4 chassis with 4 strokes and mechanical reverse on 2020 models at least put a drain plug back in them at least. 2018 Polaris and 2019 skidoos do not have drain plugs. It's a royal pia trying to suck thickened cool gear lube with a oil extractor sucking device so I make a gear lube mess splitting the cases.

 

[KennyG]

Snowmobile chain cases bloody engineers bean counters stopped putting stopped drain plugs on newer snowmobiles now you either need to use an oil extractor which sucks the oil out or split the chain case getting gear lube all over the belly pan. The newer skidoos gen 4 chassis I belie

Interesting. Why did small engine makers quit putting in drain plugs? Turning a lawn mower over on it's side to drain the oil is really dumb.

 

[jjeff]

Interesting. Why did small engine makers quit putting in drain plugs? Turning a lawn mower over on it's side to drain the oil is really dumb.

Save money? Bring to dealer to let a tech overcharge you to use a oil Extractor IDK it's a bad idea imo not putting a simple drain plug in bottom of chain cases.

 

[kenmbz]

For my Jeep the books all show changing the headlight through a twist out cover in the wheel well.
I have the upgraded headlights, so it's from above with a rubber cover and some metal fingers that hold the light unit.
Seems like each model in the line up and each version of the model had some differences.
Since my jeep does not have the stop/start feature, no second battery.
But I have an extra computer for the lights, even thought the lights themselves are analog.

It seems like more engines are sealed and expected to be thrown out like a printer cartridge when they fail :-(

My old Simplicity tractors from the late 90's, the transmissions had no drain plugs. Not only did they save a dollar each, probably sold more mowers since the fluid never got changed. Win/Win for the manufacturer.

 

[jjeff]

For my Jeep the books all show changing the headlight through a twist out cover in the wheel well.
I have the upgraded headlights, so it's from above with a rubber cover and some metal fingers that hold the light unit.
Seems like each model in the line up and each version of the model had some differences.
Since my jeep does not have the stop/start feature, no second battery.
But I have an extra computer for the lights, even thought the lights themselves are analog.

It seems like more engines are sealed and expected to be thrown out like a printer cartridge when they fail :-(

My old Simplicity tractors from the late 90's, the transmissions had no drain plugs. Not only did they save a dollar each, probably sold more mowers since the fluid never got changed. Win/Win for the manufacturer.

I passed on a new what was classified heavier duty with better hydro drive motors on a Husqvarna rider with differential lock for mowing up north after I found the the hydros were sealed.

 

[WinterDeere]

The only sense I can make of this is that drain plug deletes must be more about saving labor and minimizing potential warranty claims, than the cost of the plug itself. They likely pay less than $5 for the plug + washer + added machining cost. But having them cross-threaded, leak, or other potential in-warranty issues hurt reputation and can cost much more.

I mentioned in a recent thread, that we bought a 2021 Mini Cooper S for our teen to drive, which has a nice little powerful BMW 2.0 turbo engine... honestly the car is a total blast to drive. But in week 1, I discovered there's no dipstick in that car! You can check that oil level is "OK" on the in-dash display, but there's no indication where in that "OK" range you might be.

When changing oil, having noticed over many dozens of cars and years that no car ever takes the full listed crankcase capacity to hit center of ideal range, I'm now wondering how I'm going to know how much oil to install after draining and filter swapping. I hate the idea of wasting a whole morning to take a car to the nearest Mini dealer (2 hours round trip + wait time), for an oil change I can do in 15 minutes in my own garage.

 

[ultrarunner]

I had an uncle who bought a small Ford car years ago, Fiesta I think, and it needed a water pump. The dealer quoted a high labor price because of one very hard to access bolt.
So he drove it home and drilled a 1" hole in inner fender where bolt was. That reduced the water pump bill a lot.
Back home he put a 1" rubber plug in the hole.

Yep… outside the box problem solving…

Brother had one of those in college… great mpg and fun to drive… gave $600 for it.

Someone caved a front fender… got new one for $40 but these fenders were welded… no bolts… my repair came out looking great..