The perfect tractor.

[Iron Brew]

I've got a Kubota tractor, and a Kubota R loader/backhoe (mentioned earlier by somebody). I have no idea how many times I've wished that loader had a 3pt hitch, extra hydraulics and PTO on the back of it. I'd probably get rid of the tractor. The loader is just a far more versatile machine, with (due to articulation) better suspension. All valving is mechanical, not electrical

Looking at the powertrac (interesting machine, new to me), my loader, my tractor and a Versatile bi directional (no, I don't have one), I think there is a mix that would be pretty much fantastic.

 

[Jstpssng]

I've been through Belfast a number of times........and I'm commin to git ya!

Wait until summer and drop a line off the causeway during high tide. After catching a bunch of mackerel, you'll feel a bit more amiable.

 

[aczlan]

I'd need four of those 2-speed motors. Could get expensive, quick.

That is where one would be better off using a solid axle and two two speed motors rather than four.

I wonder if there is an electric version of a tractor that makes sense. 4 high torque wheel motors and just a ton of battery. I would think there would be a huge market for something like this if you could hold the price point under 20K. The way I see it is that the assuming you got a tesla sized battery you could probably get a minimum of 5 hours of work at least. Wether you use a hyrdualic pump to work implements or make your own electric would be something to explore. but yeah, I would consider an electric tractor for sure.

At very least, it might be worth looking into using a generator and electric wheel motors for driving it rather than hydraulics. A lot of the new man lifts are going that way because then they can use a battery or a motor and the electric side is more efficient than hydraulics would be which is important when you're running on a battery.

Aaron Z

 

[fried1765]

Wait until summer and drop a line off the causeway during high tide. After catching a bunch of mackerel, you'll feel a bit more amiable.

I usually do go through Belfast every summer, on my way to Hamilton Marine in Searsport, and to visit my college roommate in Deere Isle.

 

[MossRoad]

That is where one would be better off using a solid axle and two two speed motors rather than four.
...Aaron Z

At that point, we might as well use the hydrostatic transmission, range selector, and driveshafts to two differentials. What's the point of simplifying the engine/tram pump/4 wheel motor system only to complicate it with engine/tram pump, 2 two-speed drive pumps, two differentials?

I think its why we don't see low-speed/hi-torque hydraulically driven tractors, and why we do see a split in the family tree, with one branch being traditional tractors and the other being front end wheel loader type machines. There's no happy medium between the two.

 

[Agvg]

If it shall be easy to repair and long lived you must find a proper industrial engine that are mass-produced, the Japanese has a habit of constant change things, doesn't make them in big numbers, if you are going cheap on engine a VW diesel must be better, made in the tens of millions scale, no Japanese diesels compete with that.

 

[fried1765]

If it shall be easy to repair and long lived you must find a proper industrial engine that are mass-produced, the Japanese has a habit of constant change things, doesn't make them in big numbers, if you are going cheap on engine a VW diesel must be better, made in the tens of millions scale, no Japanese diesels compete with that.

Good point !!

 

[Agvg]

Sell it without engine and let people put in a old 1.9 VW diesel with mechanical injection, suppose such a hole is covered in the law.

 

[Renze]

Who will buy a tractor built to last 100 years, if even mining machinery is built to last just 35.000 engine hours ?

Nobody can afford a tractor built to last 100 years, for hobby. Hobby tractors need to be light duty and affordable.

 

[motownbrowne]

Personally, I just don't see people lining up to buy a tractor like this. First off, the majority of the under-100 HP sales seem to be sub suburban financially secure people on 3-30 acres who want to blow snow, scrape their driveway, and mow their horse pasture. Most of them think of John Deere and Kubota when they think of tractors and I don't think anything will really change that.

Honestly though, I think you already know that, and you're trying to sell a second generation of solidly built American tractor that will last 100 years, which isn't what Kubota or Deere are trying to do. The problems I see are that one: Americans aren't built the way they used to be. Not very much thinking outside the box. Farmers still have to improvise and fix things themselves of course, but it's not like it used to be. No one's overhauling motors under shade trees anymore. At least not very many folks. And honestly, those guys who want something they can work on themselves can still go buy a 40 year old JD, Ford, or International and have something reliable they can fix themselves for the next 40 years.

And that leads me to the next problem. It used to be that one man and one tractor could make a living on 100 acres, which is the size farm you mentioned earlier. Well, that's not really the case anymore. You can thank Earl Butz and the "green revolution", but there isn't a place for a 35-60 HP tractor or a 100 acre farm anymore. Yeah, there's vegetable farms and other specialty crops that can absolutely make a good profit on well less than 100 acres, but that stuff all requires specialty equipment. There's already small manufacturers catering to that market, like the Tuff-built tractor company. Yeah, they have use for a tractor like you're talking about, but the vast majority of those producers are just gonna go buy an international 504, JD 3020 or something similar.

Just my .02.

 

[Ortimber]

While I like the thought (I’m a gear head), I don’t think this business model is sustainable.

How about pick the best of the best older tractors, and build a company to support those?

 

[texasranger556]

I'll be interested to see what you come up with. I also agree with the other posts that a large portion of the market you're targeting who want to maintain their own machine are more likely to want to own them outright rather than make a payment, especially not 12 years no matter how great it is. They value the independence from both dealer and bank, and perhaps even the restrictive terms and conditions associated with a warranty. It's part of the reason I buy used stuff. I can maintain and modify as I see fit without fear of voiding a warranty.

The other problem I see is you're at the mercy of your suppliers to not modify or discontinue components over the lofty product lifetime you're aiming for, unless you sign long term contracts which aren't free. I deal with that at my day job. Big industry push to use COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) to cut down development costs, but it burns you on the back end if a component you're using gets discontinued. Then you're stuck buying lifetime spares or re-designing your product to use another COTS device. Pay now or pay later, nothing is free.

Keep us posted with what you decide to do, sounds like an interesting concept.

 

[Ddoherty135]

Hi. Im an entreprenuer, inventor, and think tank member. Myself and a parter of mine at work have collaborated on a few ideas and were both recently discussing the idea of prototyping a bulletproof hobby farm tractor. I/E a tractor like those of old that will run forever with easy maintenance and the owner can perform all major maintenance with shops that exist in every garage.

We dont want to reinvent the wheel and decades of innovation and evolution of the family farm tractor.

We would simply like to build a 35-60hp tractor that takes the best assets of the past and merge them into one machine that would essentially be a one time purchase 100 year life expectancy tractor.

If the prototype is successful we would like to start a small business.

Right now we are in the research phase to establish a need and a market for such a machine.

So how can you help make our research make it to the design stage?


Below, please answer the 7 questions as simply as possible for our prelimary research.

Remember 60 hp and below, the more hours and years on your equipment the better we will be able to design.

1. What tractor that you have experience with is considered the most reliable after the most years of service or hard use? The MF135. After 60 years work, and 3 months untouched, mine still starts on the button.


2.What functions on your tractor have been broken the longest? The Electrics

3.What are the most annoying/dangerous and uncomfortable thing about your machine? The clutch needs replaced, but apart from that...

4. What maintenance have you performed that was more difficult, came too often, was unusually expensive, or too time consuming to be considered practical? It's an MF 135, that doesn't happen.

5. If your tractor were to be found in a field 100 years from now, what things would still be functional? In all honesty, the engine, it is THAT RELIABLE AND GOOD!

6. What in your personal opinion is the most RELIABLE gas or diesel engine ever to be found on a 30-60 hp tractor? The Perkins AD3 152, the one in my 135

7. Finally. What machines of the past do you consider the most bulletproof and easiest to maintain for someone whom hasnt been formally trained as a mechanic?as you've guessed by now, the MF 135

I'm not joking about that engine, it is BULLETPROOF!

If anyone from MF is reading this, i'll accept gifts, no problem...

 

[Ddoherty135]

That would be a start, but I'm pretty sure they have 4 wheel independent suspension and substandard belly armor.

I don't know, the MF 135 was bulletproof, THE choice for farmers all over Ireland, maybe an up-to-date version of that? Many people would like to see the 135 go into production again...

 

[Agvg]

The MF35 witch is still in production is pretty close to a 135, but if they could sell them I EU probably very few would be sold, pepoles nostalgic thoughts very seldom sell an expensive machine. And those old MF are proper tractors, designed in the fifties and would cost quite much made in a modern factory like MF has in France. But I love my MF135

 

[Agvg]

The other problem I see is you're at the mercy of your suppliers to not modify or discontinue components over the lofty product lifetime you're aiming for, unless you sign long term contracts which aren't free. I deal with that at my day job. Big industry push to use COTS (commercial off-the-shelf) to cut down development costs, but it burns you on the back end if a component you're using gets discontinued. Then you're stuck buying lifetime spares or re-designing your product to use another COTS device. Pay now or pay later, nothing is free.

Keep us posted with what you decide to do, sounds like an interesting concept.

But there are some industri standards on hydraulic pumps and other parts?

The Germans has a lot of DIN standards they use, to day this goes under ISO I believe.

 

[stonewallgreyfox]

Very interested in this!

 

[ededic]

Hi. Im an entreprenuer, inventor, and think tank member. Myself and a parter of mine at work have collaborated on a few ideas and were both recently discussing the idea of prototyping a bulletproof hobby farm tractor. I/E a tractor like those of old that will run forever with easy maintenance and the owner can perform all major maintenance with shops that exist in every garage.

We dont want to reinvent the wheel and decades of innovation and evolution of the family farm tractor.

We would simply like to build a 35-60hp tractor that takes the best assets of the past and merge them into one machine that would essentially be a one time purchase 100 year life expectancy tractor.

If the prototype is successful we would like to start a small business.

Right now we are in the research phase to establish a need and a market for such a machine.

So how can you help make our research make it to the design stage?


Below, please answer the 7 questions as simply as possible for our prelimary research.

Remember 60 hp and below, the more hours and years on your equipment the better we will be able to design.

1. What tractor that you have experience with is considered the most reliable after the most years of service or hard use?


2.What functions on your tractor have been broken the longest?

3.What are the most annoying/dangerous and uncomfortable thing about your machine?

4. What maintenance have you performed that was more difficult, came too often, was unusually expensive, or too time consuming to be considered practical?

5. If your tractor were to be found in a field 100 years from now, what things would still be functional?

6. What in your personal opinion is the most RELIABLE gas or diesel engine ever to be found on a 30-60 hp tractor?

7. Finally. What machines of the past do you consider the most bulletproof and easiest to maintain for someone whom hasnt been formally trained as a mechanic?

Ben Franklin, Tesla, Edison is knocking at your door asking you what you want/think and this is how you respond? Put your thick heads together and take your knowledge and help build something! Many of you have tore this IDEA apart like you have used it. Unbelievable!!

 

[ededic]

Hi. Im an entreprenuer, inventor, and think tank member. Myself and a parter of mine at work have collaborated on a few ideas and were both recently discussing the idea of prototyping a bulletproof hobby farm tractor. I/E a tractor like those of old that will run forever with easy maintenance and the owner can perform all major maintenance with shops that exist in every garage.

We dont want to reinvent the wheel and decades of innovation and evolution of the family farm tractor.

We would simply like to build a 35-60hp tractor that takes the best assets of the past and merge them into one machine that would essentially be a one time purchase 100 year life expectancy tractor.

If the prototype is successful we would like to start a small business.

Right now we are in the research phase to establish a need and a market for such a machine.

So how can you help make our research make it to the design stage?


Below, please answer the 7 questions as simply as possible for our prelimary research.

Remember 60 hp and below, the more hours and years on your equipment the better we will be able to design.

1. What tractor that you have experience with is considered the most reliable after the most years of service or hard use?

Farmall Super C with 2pt hitch, halftracks, sickle mower and wide front.

2.What functions on your tractor have been broken the longest?

Oil leaks

3.What are the most annoying/dangerous and uncomfortable thing about your machine?

Seat and operator station

4. What maintenance have you performed that was more difficult, came too often, was unusually expensive, or too time consuming to be considered practical?

Not much

5. If your tractor were to be found in a field 100 years from now, what things would still be functional?

The wheels would still turn, gear shifter would still shift, starter would still pull.

6. What in your personal opinion is the most RELIABLE gas or diesel engine ever to be found on a 30-60 hp tractor?

Not sure, no real experience in that range. My experience has been with the Yanmar 3 cyl 23-25 hp range or Perkins 70-100hp range

7. Finally. What machines of the past do you consider the most bulletproof and easiest to maintain for someone whom hasnt been formally trained as a mechanic?

Since I would need to come from experience I would say for me the Super C as we as dirt farmers with no money overhauled it in our shop on rainy days.

 

[smiley]

A lot of great ideas in this thread and I will put my 2 cents in,
One of the major things I would like to see is as much off the shelf hardware used as is humanly possible, with a big off the shelf hydraulic pump/drive/system combined with a manual multi speed transmission and capability for adding 4wd. A set up like this could be coupled to with any motor available in a pinch and versatility of using standard or customized hydraulic attachments to suit your needs.
Although it is a smaller lighter tractor than you are considering, I was impressed with the concept of the Terramite tractor that uses a plate steel frame and mostly off the shelf parts that can be bought most anywhere, cheaper than the one off stuff that most manufactures put out, so you are forced to use only their parts.
Good luck in your venture,
Smiley