The complaint compartment.

[sunandsand]

Not going to use gift card?

Yeah, probably.

I'll print it out and next time I'm past there, I'll buy something. Yawn.


Last time I got a gift card was in a class action suit against somebody or other. My "share" of the recovery was a fat $43 or so, received as a gift card at Target. Couldn't get cash, only option was the gift card. (I doubt the lawyers got gift cards, they more likely got cash, and lots of it.)

Dear Bride schlepped me up to Target (30 miles away) and blew through the gift card in about eight milliseconds. Most expensive gift card it has ever been my misfortune to acquire . . .

I'll go visit Lowes alone.

Incidentally, Dear Bride has decided that instead of replacing the mirrors, she'd prefer to remodel the bathroom . . . Argh!

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[Fixastuff]

Not going to use gift card?

Obviously Lowe’s is going to be out of business and bankrupt now before he gets a chance to.

 

[Runner]

One thing I've learned over 35 years of driving and countless dozens of cars, is that if you're buying new, the servicing dealer matters as much or more than the vehicle brand.

What I've learned is the inverse: Buy cars from a brand that doesn't need service (Honda and Toyota) and the dealer doesn't matter.

Same with tractors.

 

[TractorGunn]

What I've learned is the inverse: Buy cars from a brand that doesn't need service (Honda and Toyota) and the dealer doesn't matter.

They don't need service? Then why do their dealerships have Service Departments?

It reminds me of a friend who sold a VW Beetle to someone and told them "It doesn't use oil" and they took it literally.

Some time later they locked up the engine, complained to him about it and blamed him for it. He asked, "Did you check the oil???" They replied "You said it didn't use oil!!!"

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

They don't need service? Then why do their dealerships have Service Departments?

It reminds me of a friend who sold a VW Beetle to someone and told them "It doesn't use oil" and they took it literally.

Some time later they locked up the engine, complained to him about it and blamed him for it. He asked, "Did you check the oil???" They replied "You said it didn't use oil!!!"

I’ve owned mainly Chevrolet for commuting, I’ve put over 300,000 miles on a couple of them over the years commuting to work an hour each way and both of those needed nothing but front brakes and tires.

My brothers wife has a Honda and he said it has been in the shop twice now and she bought it new in 2021

 

[sunandsand]

Here's the fallacy of "doesn't need service". Everything mechanical needs service. As one of our long time contributors says "Make the time to maintain your equipment or it will make the time for you."

The problem arises now that we have vehicles that take very minimal periodic service, no grease fittings, etc.

This is very convenient, people like it (and I do too), but since nobody ever looks at anything - remember, it doesn't need service - small issues that could have been caught and corrected early and cheaply don't get seen, and one fine day, something goes kaplooie (tm) and the car that "never needs service" comes in behind a tow truck and is about to cost the owner a big pile of money.

"Never needs service" does not mean "just ignore it", it should actually mean "take a careful look at it from time to time".

I have a Honda Accord, which has the reputation of "never needs service". That's simply not true. At 120,000 miles, all kinds of things are breaking and falling off, disintegrating plastic parts, check engine light nobody can cure, multiple window actuator failures, the car has been demoted to a "beater" - and I am not hard on machinery.

Dear Bride has a Subaru Forester, which has the reputation of being almost bulletproof. I have the defective lower control arms, two sets of rear wheel bearings, defective brake backing plates (factory TSB - originals were poor quality), caliper seals, scored brake discs and so forth in my recycle pile. The car just turned 120,000 miles. She's a little rougher on cars, but these are not normal wear items - the car is just "fragile".

The last car is one that has the reputation of being an expensive, cash hungry parts hog. Mercedes convertible. That reputation can best be described by Jerry Springer: "That was a lie."

What it does have is a "time or miles" function in one of the (many) onboard computers which whines about "A checks due" and "B checks due".

The dealer charges a lot for this, but dealers charge a lot for anything. The "A" check is nothing more than a look-over of about 15 or so items. Oil level, water level, PS fluid level, belt tension and look for frayed belts, look at the brakes (check for scoring), check all the lights, wiper blades, and so on. This is the kind of thing that ought to be done on ALL cars on a regular basis, but never is. Minor discrepancies found during the "A" check get fixed so they never grow into major problems.

The "B" check is everything in the "A" check plus an oil change, air and cabin filter changes, spark plugs at 60K miles if needed, flush and change the brake fluid after two years, and so forth. Since it is more comprehensive, it costs more, and since we are now changing more parts, that costs more, too.

Any competent DIY semi-mechanic can do all of this at home. MB sells the wiper blades for $55 each (!), eBay has the identical item (Robert Bosch) for $12 each.

Is it worth it? Simply for peace of mind, I think so. For reliability, definitely.

I had a few moments to spare (how did that happen?) and was cruising Craigslist. I found a car just like mine, same model, same year, with 301,000 miles on it! Why was it for sale? It got rear-ended. Ad said "Running well when hit."

So it is a question of pay me now or pay me (a lot more) later. Make the time to maintain your equipment or it will make the time for you.

Have a great weekend!

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida

 

[TractorGunn]

I’ve owned mainly Chevrolet for commuting, I’ve put over 300,000 miles on a couple of them over the years commuting to work an hour each way and both of those needed nothing but front brakes and tires.

We've always had good experiences with GM. The newer Suburban had an issue with the AC from the factory, leaky rear evaporator core, never blew cold as the Duramax. They looked at it, said they added refrigerant, and I told them then if is low it is either not filled properly, or has a leak. "Couldn't find a leak!"

Lo and behold, when out of warranty all of a sudden they could find the leak, when the dime was on us. Warranty doesn't pay the wrench-turner as much, but they wanted to make sure WE paid.

Nope. Got GM to take care of it.

My brothers wife has a Honda and he said it has been in the shop twice now and she bought it new in 2021

Gotta dispell those myths, right? Toyota just recalled 100,000 engines, iirc.

 

[WinterDeere]

What I've learned is the inverse: Buy cars from a brand that doesn't need service (Honda and Toyota) and the dealer doesn't matter.

Same with tractors.

You're living in a fantasy world. Toyota has great reliability, statistically very few breakdowns, and they're great for those doing very high mileage (not me). But they have had a lot of recall items, and at least in our state you still need a yearly safety inspection and emissions test. Most of us also still need someone to mount and balance our tires, and it's a heck of a lot easier to let them do your tire rotations while it's already up on the lift for safety inspection. I'll do brakes and other under-chassis stuff myself, as well as all fluid changes, but I'm not doing recall work. All recall work, inspections, and tires get done at our dealer, as they're quick and convenient, give us loaner cars, and really don't cost us much more than the local shops.

Other than a failed crank case breather on our Volvo, I haven't had a single critical component failure on any car I've owned in more than 25 years, so I don't think your point about brand would really apply. I did manage to damage a part on one of my Ram trucks, tore a CV joint boot off-roading thru a field littered with branches, but I can't imagine a Toyota or Honda would fare better there. We tend to buy our cars new, and sell them around 10 - 12 years, or sooner if mileage starts getting way above 100k.

Long story short, each of my vehicles visits the dealer once per year, unless there's an emergency recall. I think Toyota has had more of those than any other brand I have owned, excepting maybe Audi. And yes... I have owned Toyota.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, on vehicles, my understanding on German vs Japanese is kinda a general cultural philosophy. German engineering make the assumption that if they say service x at 50,000 miles, the owner will, cause it says too; they seem to take rules/laws/all that as gospel. The Japanese engineering starts with the assumption that people Won't do the service, and seems to handle neglect better.

The American engineering philosophy seems to be; on cheap cars, whatever. Keeping it running seems to be an after thought. Honestly, the trucks all seem to be good, but all also have flaws.

It's often the simple, secondary crap the US engineers **** the bed on; window motors, blend door actuators, the infotainment system that also controls the AC and cruise control...

None of them are designed around ease of replacement parts/maintenance

 

[Runner]

You're living in a fantasy world. Toyota has great reliability, statistically very few breakdowns, and they're great for those doing very high mileage (not me).

Just going by my own personal experience with 5 Hondas and 1 Toyota. Recalls and normal maintenance items, sure, but I just have not had any unscheduled service visits required.

Just an example, my Ford truck went through 3 AC compressors in less than 10,000 miles. Dealer said it was my fault for not using the AC enough. Toyota is at 158,000 miles same compressor and I hardly ever use AC in it, but when I need it, it works perfectly.

 

[WinterDeere]

Just going by my own personal experience with 5 Hondas and 1 Toyota. Recalls and normal maintenance items, sure, but I just have not had any unscheduled service visits required.

Just an example, my Ford truck went through 3 AC compressors in less than 10,000 miles. Dealer said it was my fault for not using the AC enough. Toyota is at 158,000 miles same compressor and I hardly ever use AC in it, but when I need it, it works perfectly.

That's cool. But I've had the same experience with 4 Dodges owned since 2005, not a single repair item has been required on any of them, other than one self-inflicted CV joint boot replacement, which I tore while off-roading thru a branch-strewn field to collect logs. Other than wear items (fluids, tires, wipers, brakes and batteries), none have needed anything in the 12 years I've kept each. Not even air conditioning compressors!

I'm surprised Ford has been so bad for you, but don't really know their overall stat's versus any other brand.

I still stand by my argument that the dealer matters, if you're using them for service and inspections. I don't see them but once a year for each vehicle, but we keep several vehicles, and having one that sends me on my way with a nice loaner car, and always gets the job done without hassle (same day) is a big deal to me. Noting some exceptions, I place this even higher than brand.

 

[paulsharvey]

So, I'll give my experience on vehicles;
2002 Dodge Dakota, 2wd, extended, 3.9L- brake caliper issues on front, was a fight for a while, but that was it in 219k miles; gave to MIL, then had transmission shifting issues
2005 Chevy 2500hd, 6.0, 4x4, before the wreck; wheel bearings, water pump, u-joints, cheap enough if you did it yourself, but they shouldnt be going out in 60k; after a wreck, transfer case issue, speed sensor issue
2008 Chevy Impala; never ending issues; window motors, oil filter connection gasket (cheap enough, but a real job to get too), blend door actuator, electric fan, radiator, transmission kinda slippy, head gasket, another blend door actuator. Think it made it 130k, before we traded it, running, with a bad head gasket,
2012 Dodge Durango; transmission cooler/AC radiator combo, was it before 180k, then a dang electric-computer brake controller-transmission controller thing that cost $1200, and that's rebuilt, it's no longer made
2002 Toyota Highlander, something like 220k before gave to MIL. Nothing, just change brakes, do oil changes. The suspension was needing love when we gave it to MIL. AC did quit around 225k, but I don't know if that was a major failure, or just needed recharged
2 separate 2015-2017 Ram 1500; work vehicles, lifter problems lead to auctioning low milage, non running trucks
2001 Dodge Dakota 3.9L. 4x4 county truck; around 200k miles, zero issues, brakes, oil changes very 7.5-15k miles
2015ish Ford 150, 5.0, county truck; I intentional bear the Heck out it, cause I got it right when they cut our pay 3%; I ran that think in 1st gear up to 55mph to warm up in morning, redlined in reverse multiple times, just beat on it like a rented mule, nothing in first 60k, before I left county; not neglect, intentional abuse
Several 2017-2020 Ford Explorers, heavy use, tons of idle, hoping curbs, ecr, work vehicles, not intentional abuse, but heavy Use, no issues. Had 2 coworkers ahve "infotainment system' issues, that company said, we aren't paying $1500 to fix a radio... we'll, that controls AC, cruise, ect; so they did have to fix
Sons 2003 Chevy 1500hd, 6.0, 2wd, AC compressor, window regulators, wheel bearings, total front suspension and steering components, all within 150k

 

[wolc123]

I’ve owned mainly Chevrolet for commuting, I’ve put over 300,000 miles on a couple of them over the years commuting to work an hour each way and both of those needed nothing but front brakes and tires.

My brothers wife has a Honda and he said it has been in the shop twice now and she bought it new in 2021

I’ve been driving GM’s exclusively for 44 years, several for over 100k miles. My current Silverado (the one with the camper on it) is from the last millennium. I gave that other one to my father in law who sandblasted and welded up the corroded frame and is still using it to plow snow up in the mountains at his retirement neighborhood. You just can’t seem to kill those 6 liter engines.

I had an issue or two with a few of those vehicles (almost always relating to corrosion because I live in the part of the country - upstate Western NY that uses more road salt than any other region). None of those GM’s has ever left me stranded or had to be towed or flat bedded to a service shop.

Contrast that with the Toyota Sienna minivan that my wife insisted on when GM stopped making those. That one went to my buddies service shop on a hook a few months ago, when the ground stud corroded off of the starter, making that the first time any of our vehicles couldn’t reach their destination under their own power.

 

[ultrarunner]

New 2001 Corolla and new 2002 BMW 325it… only new cars ever bought in the household.

2001 Corolla nothing but did fab a metal hinge for console glove box lid. By nothing I’m excluding oil and filter, tires, 1 battery, pads…

2002 BMW 325it the following… Voltage regulator, 3 batteries, 3 window regulators, 3 recalls… trans program, mirror, Airbags and airbag light still on and told time and material and could easily be 3-4K, 2 window washer pumps, blower resistor and at one recall said bushings for suspension due…

On BMW I requested Spark Plug change and dealer they don’t do those as problems screwing up the threads on removal???

 

[Jstpssng]

I’ve been driving GM’s exclusively for 44 years, several for over 100k miles

100k miles is just broken in. I expect to go that many miles without major repairs.
Unless it's a GM. My employer ran 1/2 GMs for years before switching to Toyota because they are cheaper to run. A few common issues; transmissions. I expect to change them on a GM at around 130k but often they last until just after the warrantee runs out.
Leaf springs; they must have gotten a bad batch because for 5 years or so every truck had them replaced at least once. We don't haul heavy, the springs just sucked.

Check engine lights; they come on so often that when they are off, you wonder if they have burnt out. One coworker had it come on before he got home (<100 miles) and they worked on it repeatedly until finally telling him to run it.
Ball joints replaced about every year. Yes, we run rough roads but that's a bit extreme. My Tundra turned 139k Friday and had never needed front end work done.
Or transmission work.

 

[number two]

Some people have trouble with anything.
Other people never have trouble with much at all.
You pays your money,and you take your chances!

 

[WinterDeere]

Some people have trouble with anything.
Other people never have trouble with much at all.

... and others just choose to not make their trouble yours.

My absolute favorite people to deal with in business are the "no problem, I'll take care of it" types. I know enormously challenging feats lay behind that "no problem", but you don't need to burden your customer with them, we always appreciate the "I'll take care of it" that follows. And that's why they're always the first people I call, every time a new opportunity appears.

Be a "no problem, I'll take care of it" person.

 

[Runner]

That's cool. But I've had the same experience with 4 Dodges owned since 2005, not a single repair item has been required on any of them, other than one self-inflicted CV joint boot replacement, which I tore while off-roading thru a branch-strewn field to collect logs. Other than wear items (fluids, tires, wipers, brakes and batteries), none have needed anything in the 12 years I've kept each. Not even air conditioning compressors!

I'm surprised Ford has been so bad for you, but don't really know their overall stat's versus any other brand.

I still stand by my argument that the dealer matters, if you're using them for service and inspections. I don't see them but once a year for each vehicle, but we keep several vehicles, and having one that sends me on my way with a nice loaner car, and always gets the job done without hassle (same day) is a big deal to me. Noting some exceptions, I place this even higher than brand.

I'd rather have a "good" dealer than a "bad" one. Bad dealers can really screw up an otherwise good vehicle (or tractor). Problem is, it's not always the dealer, but sometimes just comes down to one bad person (tech or sales).

I've written other places on here about multiple bad dealers I've encountered for vehicles and tractors. Problem is, it's extremely hard to know what kind of dealer you are at, unless you personally know someone who's had experience with them, good or bad, and even that may not tell the whole story.

A particular tractor dealer I had experience with had been in business in the same location for over 50 years. I figured, "how bad could they be", but they turned out to be a complete nightmare. Enough so that, after the purchase (17 years ago), I've never been back. I literally wouldn't buy a quart of oil from them now.

I'm just saying that, in my opinion, knowing a good dealer from a bad dealer is a crapshoot, and I try to better my odds by buying things that are a known quantity (to me, anyway) that probably won't require me to have to gamble on the dealer experience any more than necessary.

I'm not advocating one brand over another, just saying which ones have worked for me so far, and I like to stick with things that work for me. I don't have any experience with Dodge, but I'm glad to hear you have had good experience with them.

The Cub Cadet ZTXS5 I just bought is the exception to the rule. CC is a complete unknown quantity to me as far as reliability, build quality, etc., and I already know that the dealers in my area are "marginal" at best, so I'm taking a big chance with that machine. However, I decided it was worth it because no other company makes anything like it, and it is what I need to get the job done. Fingers crossed on that one....

 

[WinterDeere]

A particular tractor dealer I had experience with had been in business in the same location for over 50 years. I figured, "how bad could they be", but they turned out to be a complete nightmare.

You reminded me of my sole tractor dealer service experience. I normally do all of my own maintenance and repairs on tractors and mowers, but I was having a new shop built in 2015, so had no time or space available when it came time to do my annual service in January.

Knowing this would be the case, I called and scheduled the service at the end of our mowing season, around Thanksgiving. Two machines, my 30-year old CUT and an 8 year old ZTR, and I was told they'd call me about pick-up in a few weeks.

Well, weeks went buy... and then more weeks. I called them once or twice, just to make sure I was still on their schedule, and they assured me I was. Finally, I get a call one bitter-cold week in early March... they're coming in the morning to pick up my machines.

I explain that the zero turn is just about impossible to start in cold weather, but that I'll get it warmed up for them in the morning before I leave for work, so their tech won't have any trouble starting it when they arrive... just make sure he doesn't wait until after lunch to come get it. "No problem, he'll be there by 8am, you're his first pickup of the day."

I get a call at 4:30pm... the driver is at my house, and can't get the ZTR started. No sh*t, we talked about that last night, guys. But can't they just winch it onto the truck? Apparently not. Reschedule for another day, and now I have a cold mower sitting out in the yard, that I somehow need to get started and moved back into the barn.

After all that SNAFU, they finally retrieve and service both machines, and I'm actually impressed with how well my 30 year old diesel CUT starts and runs in cold weather. The machine always ran fine once warm, but was hell to start in cold weather. I always blamed 1986 diesel technology, but apparently there was something causing it, which they fixed.

Then when running that machine a week or two later, I had it spray fuel all over our finished garage and die on me in a puddle of diesel. Fuel all over the painted walls, and items we had temporarily stored in the garage, while the shop was being built. I found they had loosened the mounting bolts on the final fuel filter, to get easier access to change it (bad design), and forgotten to re-tighten the mounting bolts. Result was a broken casting on the fuel filter, not a cheap item for a 30 year old machine, a dead tractor half in and half out of my garage, and a big mess to clean up.

This is why I always do all of my own maintenance and repairs, short of state-required vehicle inspections or ECM stuff that requires equipment I just don't have.

 

[sunandsand]

Bad dealer . . .

Lived in Miami in the late 60s. Rode around on a BMW that was old then. Wanted a sidecar.

Visited a dealer on SW 8th st, they had a two page ad in the phone book (remember phone books?), claiming they were the authorized dealer for every motorcycle in the known universe.

It was a giant junkyard, but heck, if they have what I want, that's OK. Owner said yes, he had a sidecar frame, right over here.

Frame is a ladder type frame, two side members and several cross members. The front one had a curve in it, center was about eight inches back from the edges.

"Why'd they do that?" "That's for a well for the passenger's feet."

Turned around and there's a sidecar body with a big vertical bash in the front - where it ran into a telephone pole.

I didn't want to leave empty-handed, so I bought a copy of Cycle Magazine (May, I think), new in the unopened wrapper, for fifty cents. Got it home and read it, somehow it looked awfully familiar.

Turns out it was LAST year's issue for that month, instead of sending it back for credit, they stuck it on the shelf and let it sit for a year because they could make a nickel more than by sending it back.

Ugh.

Best Regards,
Mike/Florida