Teeth for mini-excavator buckets

sflranchok · Feb 2, 2006

( The Hensley 23 tooth design has been an Industry mainstay for over 25 years ( the X156 has been around as long, but I believe it to have been a Esco design).

There has been discussion here regarding the 23 twin Tiger tooth-I would highly recommend you run twin Tigers on the outer teeth (whcih lessens the bucket "pinch" and give a little more Hydraulic power) with the single Tigers in the middle.

Regarding tooth prices, I am certian (if you live by a large Metro area) that there is a Company that specializes in tooth and cutting edge Sales there, along with Grader Blades and such (any high wear items). If your Kubota Dealer isn't big in Construction Equipment Sales, he is at a big disadvantage and may have to pay a much higher price than, say, the local Case or Deere Dealer (which by the way will carry the 23 Tooth). The 23 has been a standard tooth on the 580 Series Case and 310 Series Deere Backhoes.

Concerning Filters, I would highly recommend you run exclusively Kubota Filters (I am a JD Dealer by the way)-Wix, Fram and others will sell the same Filter (oil) that fits a gas engine for Diesel applications (which are NOT the same). It will only take one Injection Pump rebuild ( /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif) to realize that there are differences- )

I do not use a 23, but rather the Hensley X156WT (for rock) and X156L (for dirt). I believe the 23 is designed for either older or different buckets, but not the bucket on my 2005 KX-71.

You are right, I am learning that very few Kubota dealers have the buying power to be competitive for teeth sales.

Dirthog · Feb 2, 2006

The 23 tooth is made for larger equipment and has different style keeper 23 has a flex pin and the 156 has a roll pin also they mount different one throught the top and one from the side. there are no buckets made for the mini and smaller backhoes that use the 23 teeth that I know of and we sell several different brands also I would not try to weld on teeth they are a cast steel and welding will make them quite brittle.

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

Well without trying to sound argumentative my 2004 KX91-3 came with type 23 teeth from Kubota. Now to be fair the buckets are sourced by Kubota in Canada(H&H MFG). I would suspect that it is cheaper to source in the destination country than to ship. I also would think that could be the situation in the USA. As far as them not using on mini's I wonder why. I do not profess to be overly knowledgeable about teeth and applications, but would like to know why they do not use them on the smaller machines. You appear to have a good understanding and wonder if you could enlighten us to the best type, brand, applications and retaining devices. There also are pins for the 23 that have nubs on both sides as opposed to one side. Are these a better option or are they used as compensation for worn shank holes?

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

(
There has been discussion here regarding the 23 twin Tiger tooth-I would highly recommend you run twin Tigers on the outer teeth (whcih lessens the bucket "pinch" and give a little more Hydraulic power) with the single Tigers in the middle.
)

In general digging(semi rocky,clay ground) with normal flat teeth would having two outside twin tigers be a good idea. Would the wear be considerably more on the tigers or comparable, after allowing for side to side exchange of teeth. Not having the bucket pinch and a little more power to the point seems like a good idea. Your opinion is appreciated.

sflranchok · Feb 2, 2006

nobull1,

You raise good questions. I just looked at the Kubota website and the exact same buckets are offered for the 71 and 91. So possibly, as I believe you mentioned earlier, in 2005 Kubota may have decided to change the buckets (or at least teeth) for KX 71 and above. Or, as you also suggest, maybe it is country (and in-country sourcing) that determines which buckets are made available.

Kubota dealers, any thoughts on this?

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

Since we are on the subject of buckets. Does your bucket have two holes, as in one for curl and one for power. My bucket only comes with the one hole /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif.

Dirthog · Feb 2, 2006

main reason they use the smaller teeth is smaller surface area when trying to penetrate the ground or rock. Same way with using the tiger teeth less surface area therefore easyer to penetrate the ground. Also have been told by one mfg. that weight ( ie) every pound you make the bucket weight less for payload. The nubs on the teeth by the pin holes are to protect the edges of the pins less likely to push the pins out.

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. As you can see in the attachment there are two types of pins and just wondered if there was a benefit/reason to use one or the other.

sflranchok · Feb 2, 2006

nobull1,

Sorry, I do not quite understand your question. Could you send a pic of your bucket and maybe then I can understand which holes you are referring to.

I am not sure I understand what the other person was talking about when he said one hole for curl and the other for power. But then again, I am very new at this and have a lot to learn.

thanks.

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

Here is a pic from Kubota's site. Take notice it has two holes to mount the link. If you go to Kubota's site and look up your machine, then go to attachments you will see.

sflranchok · Feb 2, 2006

Ok, I better understand what you refer to. The orange bucket is a pin on bucket, whereas my buckets are quick attach (they are the black buckets on the next tab at Kubota website) So now I will need to look at how the quick attach is hooked up to see if it can be configured for the power hole vs. the curl hole. Pardon my ignorance, but which is the power hole and which is the curl hole?

Do you have the pin on buckets or quick attach buckets?

Also, when comparing specs for the same size (inch wise) buckets, the pin on consistently has a lesser capacity vs. the same size quick attach. Don't know what that means.

My dealer is going to stop by tomorrow and I'll ask him the questions about these bucket variations.

sflranchok · Feb 2, 2006

Nobull1,

I think I got our answer. Go back to the Kubota website and get back to the attachment for KX-91. The first tab is pin on, the next is quick attach, then the next is the quich attach coupler, which shows the curl or power option. All that is left to learn is which hole represents which option.

Knowledge is awesome, isn't it?

nobull1 · Feb 2, 2006

I had not thought about the QA bucket as mine is the pin on style /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif. As far as which is which my "guess" is the outside hole allows the bucket to curl in tight to the arm and is the curl hole. When loading a high truck you need a tight curl as the site says. Someone may correct me but I think that is correct. Your right about the capacities being different for the two types of buckets. Maybe the reason is the QA bucket has less metal for attaching so it allows for a deeper more capacity bucket. Funny thing on my old L275 tractor there was two holes on the loader bucket for that purpose.

sflranchok · Feb 3, 2006

Another thought - - I have the hydraulic thumb. Wonder if that precludes which hole can be used? The QA bucket is currently attached to the furthest away hole.

One more question for the dealer - - thanks.

plowrup · Feb 3, 2006

Generally,

the outside pin hole is for power and the inside is for stroke of arm.

Regarding the teeth, I have had discussions with the Hensley rep and others over the years, and they told me (hopefully truthfully) that the pin designs had more to do with Patents than usage. I have always liked the Hensley design more than the Esco original design because it was a one piece desing, and they have been good. Regarding the Tiger teeth, in my book they are solely for Rock and/or Frost. They wear a lot quicker but if you HAVE to work they are the cheapest solution-

stroker_ace · Feb 9, 2006

sflranchok,

The reason for the price difference between your Kubota dealer and Kirby-Smith is that Kirby-Smith is a direct dealer for Hensley products. Kubota is more than likely buying from a Hensley dealer and then marking the product up.

Hensley also used to make several sizes of the John Deere product line. John Deere at one time was looking for other manufacturers of their product line so I don't know if that is still true or not.

I also would not recommend welding on these teeth as they are made of a proprietary steel that is generally between 400-500 BHN. They are pretty hard and any kind of welding without preheating will crack the casting.

sflranchok · Feb 9, 2006

Thanks for explaining the difference in Kirby Smith and Kubota. Since I last posted those comments about teeth, I have purchased both the X156WT twin tiger and the X156L via Ebay at $9.00 and $5.45 each, shipping included. It's amazing what you can find the more you look around.

Also, I agree, welding is not a viable alternative.

Thanks for your thoughts!

stroker_ace · Feb 10, 2006

Not a problem. I used to work for Hensley designing teeth and other ground engaging tools before moving to their bucket division as the Engineering group leader.

Be carefull with what you buy off of e-bay. Since there is not a patent on the 156 series, there are many foreign companies that make the same tooth and adapter, but the steel quality is far inferior. The casting will have a very good surface finish, but the strength is not there. The only way to tell if it is the real hensley product is a trademark logo and a the Hensley diamond shape. Most of the time it will say Hensley in the middle of the diamond.

coopers · Feb 20, 2006

Nobull, on our 121's we put (or I put them) the pin in the inner hole so that the bucket can curl right up against the thumb and curl really far out for digging. The outer hole I think isn't that great and so when we bought our new 121's I put some of them in the inner hole. Just makes more sense IMHO.

Blake
WA

coopers · Feb 20, 2006

Nobull, I actually ment that for sflranchok. sflranchok do you have a picture of your trackhoe so we can see what exactly you have going on?

Blake
WA